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New Greek elections

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which party do you support in the upcoming Greek elections

Syriza
207
41%
PASOK
8
2%
New Democracy
73
14%
Golden Dawn
109
22%
Potami
15
3%
Dimar
13
3%
KKE
35
7%
ANEL
9
2%
None of the above
35
7%
 
Total votes : 504

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SuperFruitland
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Posts: 1352
Founded: Jun 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby SuperFruitland » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:46 am

Greece's debt problem isn't as bad as Japan's...

debt 237% of GDP, go Japan

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Insaeldor
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Posts: 5373
Founded: Aug 26, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Insaeldor » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:48 am

SuperFruitLand wrote:Greece's debt problem isn't as bad as Japan's...

debt 237% of GDP, go Japan

Only thing is that in Japan you apparently win even more seats for doing a shit job where as in Greece you loose horribly in the elections.
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Southern Hampshire
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Posts: 819
Founded: May 05, 2014
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Postby Southern Hampshire » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:49 am

Martean wrote:Day 1 of Tsipras government:

-An asteroid passes near the earth
-Demis Roussos dies
-A Greek F-16 crashes in Albacete, Spain

Oh shit, I'm starting to feel scared, ebul comunists only bring desperation :(


Clearly a sign that Zeus doesn't want the commie to take power.
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The Matthew Islands
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6739
Founded: Feb 20, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby The Matthew Islands » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:13 am

SuperFruitLand wrote:Greece's debt problem isn't as bad as Japan's...

debt 237% of GDP, go Japan

Yeah but Japan is the 3rd biggest economy in the world is able to manage the debt. From the looks of things the Greek economy couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
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Geilinor
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Posts: 41328
Founded: Feb 20, 2010
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Postby Geilinor » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:15 am

Insaeldor wrote:
SuperFruitLand wrote:Greece's debt problem isn't as bad as Japan's...

debt 237% of GDP, go Japan

Only thing is that in Japan you apparently win even more seats for doing a shit job where as in Greece you loose horribly in the elections.

Syriza was united and gave an alternative. The opposition in Japan was not.
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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Ramptonia
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Posts: 101
Founded: Jan 20, 2015
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Postby Ramptonia » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:24 am

I wonder if Angela's called yet and laid down the line.

Also, the Greek President looks decrepit.
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Mike the Progressive
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Posts: 27544
Founded: Oct 27, 2010
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:47 am

SuperFruitLand wrote:Greece's debt problem isn't as bad as Japan's...

debt 237% of GDP, go Japan


Japan's economy isn't that great and hasn't been for some time. And it's also a lot stronger than Greece. Like a lot.

The only thing that will happen is Greece will spiral out of control, again.

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Unholy Byzantium
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Posts: 86
Founded: Jan 22, 2015
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Postby Unholy Byzantium » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:49 am

Today is a new beginning for Greece and for Europe. Finally a great leader with the will to (hopefully) stand up to the dictatorship of Brussels!
The White Sun will never be extinguished

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Mike the Progressive
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Posts: 27544
Founded: Oct 27, 2010
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:51 am

Unholy Byzantium wrote:Today is a new beginning for Greece and for Europe. Finally a great leader with the will to (hopefully) stand up to the dictatorship of Brussels!

Haha ok

User avatar
Calimera II
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8790
Founded: Jan 03, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Calimera II » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:51 am

Mike the Progressive wrote:
SuperFruitLand wrote:Greece's debt problem isn't as bad as Japan's...

debt 237% of GDP, go Japan


Japan's economy isn't that great and hasn't been for some time. And it's also a lot stronger than Greece. Like a lot.

The only thing that will happen is Greece will spiral out of control, again.


And what will happen then?

Spiral out of control > Default / Grexit > Devaluation > Become competitive again > Grow > Good deal with bondholders

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Norstal
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Posts: 41465
Founded: Mar 07, 2008
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Postby Norstal » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:53 am

Mike the Progressive wrote:
SuperFruitLand wrote:Greece's debt problem isn't as bad as Japan's...

debt 237% of GDP, go Japan


Japan's economy isn't that great and hasn't been for some time. And it's also a lot stronger than Greece. Like a lot.

The only thing that will happen is Greece will spiral out of control, again.

IIRC, they also have a problem with deflation, which means they need to keep spending to prevent a disaster. Their situation is comparatively better because their solution is more spending.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#In_Japan

And no, don't believe the trite that Mises put into that wiki page.
Last edited by Norstal on Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Southern Hampshire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 819
Founded: May 05, 2014
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Postby Southern Hampshire » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:56 am

Martean wrote:Day 1 of Tsipras government:

-An asteroid passes near the earth
-Demis Roussos dies
-A Greek F-16 crashes in Albacete, Spain

Oh shit, I'm starting to feel scared, ebul comunists only bring desperation :(


You forgot to mention there was a storm above the Parliament and there was a lighting strike in the garden of the Maximos Mansion.
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Anti: Russia, North Korea, Argentina, Mediterranean & Red Sea Arabic countries, Liberal Europe, Socialism, Third Way, Elitism, Nationalization, CIS, Defence cuts, Hippie Bastards, Welfare, NHS, Anything north of London - Oxford - Bristol line,

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Mike the Progressive
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27544
Founded: Oct 27, 2010
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:04 pm

Calimera II wrote:
Mike the Progressive wrote:
Japan's economy isn't that great and hasn't been for some time. And it's also a lot stronger than Greece. Like a lot.

The only thing that will happen is Greece will spiral out of control, again.


And what will happen then?

Spiral out of control > Default / Grexit > Devaluation > Become competitive again > Grow > Good deal with bondholders


One big reason why the IMF/ECB bailed out Greece was because they agreed to tighter fiscal policies. If the dickless PM changes this arrangement, before Greece is ready, you're going to see the economy implode. It may eventually get better, but how long that takes is up to the Greek people and government.

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Communist EU
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 125
Founded: Oct 03, 2014
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Postby Communist EU » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:06 pm

I think within a few months, the left within Syriza will rebel against the Tsipras administration.
The EU referendum result is illegitimate, to paraphrase Pedro Sanchez, you cannot have a binary yes/no question to solve complex problems. Essentially, the masses get no overall say in the policy Brexit negotiation process deal or whatever the deal will be. The referendum was wholly undemocratic!

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MERIZoC
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Posts: 23694
Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:06 pm

Communist EU wrote:I think within a few months, the left within Syriza will rebel against the Tsipras administration.

And why's that?

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Geilinor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41328
Founded: Feb 20, 2010
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Postby Geilinor » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:07 pm

Communist EU wrote:I think within a few months, the left within Syriza will rebel against the Tsipras administration.

How strong is the left within Syriza?
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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Lucasaer
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 155
Founded: Jan 01, 2015
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Postby Lucasaer » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:07 pm

Southern Hampshire wrote:
Martean wrote:Day 1 of Tsipras government:

-An asteroid passes near the earth
-Demis Roussos dies
-A Greek F-16 crashes in Albacete, Spain

Oh shit, I'm starting to feel scared, ebul comunists only bring desperation :(


You forgot to mention there was a storm above the Parliament and there was a lighting strike in the garden of the Maximos Mansion.

*oh le conspiracy theory intensifies*
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Mike the Progressive
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27544
Founded: Oct 27, 2010
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:08 pm

Norstal wrote:
Mike the Progressive wrote:
Japan's economy isn't that great and hasn't been for some time. And it's also a lot stronger than Greece. Like a lot.

The only thing that will happen is Greece will spiral out of control, again.

IIRC, they also have a problem with deflation, which means they need to keep spending to prevent a disaster. Their situation is comparatively better because their solution is more spending.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#In_Japan

And no, don't believe the trite that Mises put into that wiki page.


There is certainly a need for public spending. But Japan is doing/did what China is currently doing. Artificially growing their economy with stimulus. That's fine, but when that's making up most of your economic growth, it's not sustainable forever.
Last edited by Mike the Progressive on Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Communist EU
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 125
Founded: Oct 03, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Communist EU » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:09 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Communist EU wrote:I think within a few months, the left within Syriza will rebel against the Tsipras administration.

And why's that?

Because they won't be able to deliver on their promises, got into a coalition with right-wing ANEL, and they're too moderate, (something that even the FT has picked up on).
Last edited by Communist EU on Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The EU referendum result is illegitimate, to paraphrase Pedro Sanchez, you cannot have a binary yes/no question to solve complex problems. Essentially, the masses get no overall say in the policy Brexit negotiation process deal or whatever the deal will be. The referendum was wholly undemocratic!

User avatar
Communist EU
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 125
Founded: Oct 03, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Communist EU » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:13 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Communist EU wrote:I think within a few months, the left within Syriza will rebel against the Tsipras administration.

How strong is the left within Syriza?

A critique of Syriza's current program and their own proposals below.
http://socialistnetwork.org/the-new-pro ... of-syriza/ - by Ilias Milonas
The EU referendum result is illegitimate, to paraphrase Pedro Sanchez, you cannot have a binary yes/no question to solve complex problems. Essentially, the masses get no overall say in the policy Brexit negotiation process deal or whatever the deal will be. The referendum was wholly undemocratic!

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MERIZoC
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23694
Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:16 pm

Communist EU wrote:
Merizoc wrote:And why's that?

Because they won't be able to deliver on their promises, got into a coalition with right-wing ANEL, and they're too moderate, (something that even the FT has picked up on).

What promises can't they deliver on? Along with Potami, social policy will be easy, and ANEL can help them get rid of austerity.

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Calimera II
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8790
Founded: Jan 03, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Calimera II » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:18 pm

Communist EU wrote:
Geilinor wrote:How strong is the left within Syriza?

A critique of Syriza's current program and their own proposals below.
http://socialistnetwork.org/the-new-pro ... of-syriza/ - by Ilias Milonas


I am not sure whether their policies are going to work, but we'll see.

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Geilinor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41328
Founded: Feb 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Geilinor » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:19 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Communist EU wrote:Because they won't be able to deliver on their promises, got into a coalition with right-wing ANEL, and they're too moderate, (something that even the FT has picked up on).

What promises can't they deliver on? Along with Potami, social policy will be easy, and ANEL can help them get rid of austerity.

ANEL is notoriously socially conservative, social policy isn't going to be any form of a priority for this government.
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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Earl of Sandwich IV
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 449
Founded: Nov 07, 2014
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Postby Earl of Sandwich IV » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:19 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Communist EU wrote:Because they won't be able to deliver on their promises, got into a coalition with right-wing ANEL, and they're too moderate, (something that even the FT has picked up on).

What promises can't they deliver on? Along with Potami, social policy will be easy, and ANEL can help them get rid of austerity.

Can't deliver if you haven't got the cash.

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Communist EU
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 125
Founded: Oct 03, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Communist EU » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:21 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Merizoc wrote:What promises can't they deliver on? Along with Potami, social policy will be easy, and ANEL can help them get rid of austerity.

ANEL is notoriously socially conservative, social policy isn't going to be any form of a priority for this government.

And a bunch of anti-Semitic conspiracy nuts.
The EU referendum result is illegitimate, to paraphrase Pedro Sanchez, you cannot have a binary yes/no question to solve complex problems. Essentially, the masses get no overall say in the policy Brexit negotiation process deal or whatever the deal will be. The referendum was wholly undemocratic!

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