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Should they really be banned?

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Zoharland
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Founded: Sep 03, 2009
Ex-Nation

Should they really be banned?

Postby Zoharland » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:36 am

LONDON — The British government banned an Islamist group notorious for glorifying Al Qaeda and tied to terror plots at home and abroad, but its Lebanon-based spiritual leader promised to reorganize under a different name.

The group, Islam4UK, will be banned starting Thursday after its British leader, Anjem Choudary, threatened to bring hundreds of people marching in protest through the streets a small market town known for honoring the British soldiers killed in Afghanistan.

The latest ban puts the group in the same league with terror organizations such as Al Qaeda, and the Tamil Tigers. It could lead to the arrest of anyone meeting under the Islam4UK name or using the group's insignia.

The group, previously known as Al-Muhajiroun, was banned before only to change its name and resurface again.

Al-Muhajiroun, which means "The Emigrants" in Arabic, catapulted to notoriety shortly after Sept. 11, 2001, when it organized an event celebrating the airline hijackers who slaughtered thousands in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

The group and its founder Omar Bakri became among of the most aggressive voices of radical Islam in Britain. Officials have said that Omar Khan Sharif, who attempted to blow himself up at an Israeli bar in 2003, was associated with al-Muhajiroun. So too was Mohammed Junaid Babar, a Pakistani-born Al Qaeda member turned FBI informant. Members of the terrorist cell behind the July 7, 2005 London transit bombings and those convicted in 2007 of plotting to set of explosions across southern England using fertilizer-based explosives also had links to the group.

Officials moved to ban Al-Muhajiroun in the wake of the July 7 attacks, but by then it had ostensibly disbanded. Bakri left the country for Lebanon in late 2005.

Since then group has re-formed under new names — such as the Saved Sect or al-Gurabaa — both of which were banned in 2006.

The groups' leaders Choudary and Bakri reacted fiercely to news of the ban.

"It will rally the youth to our side," Choudary told reporters.

Peter Neumann, a professor at the International Center for the Study of Radicalization at King's College in London, said he doubted the ban would have much of an impact.

"It harasses them, but it doesn't make them go away," he said, explaining that the group would probably have to empty its bank account, change its Web site and reprint its promotional material.

In a telephone interview with The Associated Press from Tripoli, Lebanon, Bakri said his followers were looking forward to regrouping under a different name.

"Tomorrow we can call ourselves whatever we think is suitable for us," he said.

Neumann said Islam4UK had been allowed to operate for the past year or so in part because it kept its activities relatively discrete.

It was the national outrage whipped up by Islam4UK's proposed protest at the town of Wootton Basset which drew the government's wrath. The protest was eventually canceled by Choudary, who said his group had made its point.

The Muslim Council of Britain, an umbrella group of British Muslim organizations, questioned whether banning the group rather than going after its leaders is the best way to deal with the issue .

"Shouldn't we, as a democracy and a country which upholds the rule of law and order, be banning individuals who break the law rather than banning organizations?" spokesman Inayat Bunglawala said.

Neumann suggested that the ban would not mean the end for al-Muhajiroun, whatever new form it took.

"They've been playing this game for quite a long time," he said.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,582868,00.html

I somewhat have to agree with Peter Neumann, what does banning groups like these do except stifle free speech? Do you guys in the UK even believe in that concept? Sure, they're horrible people, but all that seems to happen is that they change their name and go on being horrible... :meh:

I guess what I'm saying is couldn't you guys find a more effective way to deal with groups like these?

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:38 am

Banned? No. Monitored closely? Yes.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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South Lorenya
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Founded: Feb 14, 2007
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Postby South Lorenya » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:39 am

Considering that the only "laws" they recognize are sharia, yes.
-- King DragonAtma of the Dragon Kingdom of South Lorenya.

Nagas on a plane! ^_^

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Kobrania
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Founded: May 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kobrania » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:39 am

Ifreann wrote:Banned? No. Monitored closely? Yes.

^Is an agreeable concept.
"Only when you acknowledge that your country has done evil and ignore it will you be a patriot." -TJ.

ZIONISM = JUSTIFYING GENOCIDE WITH GOD.

Kobrania, the anti-KMA.

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Tagmatium
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Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:39 am

Zoharland wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,582868,00.html

I somewhat have to agree with Peter Neumann, what does banning groups like these do except stifle free speech? Do you guys in the UK even believe in that concept? Sure, they're horrible people, but all that seems to happen is that they change their name and go on being horrible... :meh:

I guess what I'm saying is couldn't you guys find a more effective way to deal with groups like these?

It's frankly a hate-filled group which has been banned under about three or four different incarnations over the last few years. We're probably better off without them, but the chances are it could just lead to these arseholes gaining a bit more infamy and a bit more support, especially since they can make out that they're being oppressed and are the underdogs in this situation.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Tagmatium
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Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:40 am

Kobrania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Banned? No. Monitored closely? Yes.

^Is an agreeable concept.

Seconded.

Oh, well. Too late now.

They'll just pop up under another name, in all likelihood.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:43 am

Tagmatium wrote:
Kobrania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Banned? No. Monitored closely? Yes.

^Is an agreeable concept.

Seconded.

Oh, well. Too late now.

They'll just pop up under another name, in all likelihood.

I think their leader has pretty much said that. Better to put let them do their whole "lol, we hates teh west" thing where we can see them, so we can point them out as lunatics and notice if they look like they're planning something dangerous.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Tagmatium
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Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:43 am

Ifreann wrote:
Tagmatium wrote:
Kobrania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Banned? No. Monitored closely? Yes.

^Is an agreeable concept.

Seconded.

Oh, well. Too late now.

They'll just pop up under another name, in all likelihood.

I think their leader has pretty much said that. Better to put let them do their whole "lol, we hates teh west" thing where we can see them, so we can point them out as lunatics and notice if they look like they're planning something dangerous.

Put the dude in the ring with Nick Griffin, just for laughs.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:45 am

Tagmatium wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
Tagmatium wrote:
Kobrania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Banned? No. Monitored closely? Yes.

^Is an agreeable concept.

Seconded.

Oh, well. Too late now.

They'll just pop up under another name, in all likelihood.

I think their leader has pretty much said that. Better to put let them do their whole "lol, we hates teh west" thing where we can see them, so we can point them out as lunatics and notice if they look like they're planning something dangerous.

Put the dude in the ring with Nick Griffin, just for laughs.

My money's on Griffin. He's fat, but the Muslim guy is old, and Griffin will be able to put a lot of weight behind his punches. Or just sit on the guy.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Tagmatium
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16600
Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:48 am

Ifreann wrote:
Tagmatium wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
Tagmatium wrote:
Kobrania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Banned? No. Monitored closely? Yes.

^Is an agreeable concept.

Seconded.

Oh, well. Too late now.

They'll just pop up under another name, in all likelihood.

I think their leader has pretty much said that. Better to put let them do their whole "lol, we hates teh west" thing where we can see them, so we can point them out as lunatics and notice if they look like they're planning something dangerous.

Put the dude in the ring with Nick Griffin, just for laughs.

My money's on Griffin. He's fat, but the Muslim guy is old, and Griffin will be able to put a lot of weight behind his punches. Or just sit on the guy.

If he got on Griffin's blind side, then the nazi'd be fucked.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Raul Caribe
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Posts: 440
Founded: Dec 24, 2009
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NOT

Postby Raul Caribe » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:49 am

not banned

set up an insider find out all the members of the group then kill them. no more problems from them.

people who follow their beliefs might be mad but so what they already hate. so again not a problem.

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Tagmatium
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Posts: 16600
Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:49 am

Raul Caribe wrote:not banned

set up an insider find out all the members of the group then kill them. no more problems from them.

people who follow their beliefs might be mad but so what they already hate. so again not a problem.

Not the kind of actions a democracy can really get away with, though.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Kobrania
Minister
 
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Founded: May 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kobrania » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:51 am

Raul Caribe wrote:not banned

set up an insider find out all the members of the group then kill them. no more problems from them.

people who follow their beliefs might be mad but so what they already hate. so again not a problem.

You would support a government that would murder dissenters? :eyebrow:
"Only when you acknowledge that your country has done evil and ignore it will you be a patriot." -TJ.

ZIONISM = JUSTIFYING GENOCIDE WITH GOD.

Kobrania, the anti-KMA.

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Linker Niederrhein
Diplomat
 
Posts: 703
Founded: Nov 11, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Linker Niederrhein » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:51 am

Tagmatium wrote:
Raul Caribe wrote:not banned

set up an insider find out all the members of the group then kill them. no more problems from them.

people who follow their beliefs might be mad but so what they already hate. so again not a problem.

Not the kind of actions a democracy can really get away with, though.
We're not talking about a democracy, we're talking about 'Shoot 'em in the head!' Britain.

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Perendinate (Ancient)
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Founded: Jan 05, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Perendinate (Ancient) » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:54 am

Linker Niederrhein wrote:We're not talking about a democracy, we're talking about 'Shoot 'em in the head!' Britain.


But of course we are...

/crazy
:p
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Tangomania
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Founded: Jan 10, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Tangomania » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:55 am

Banned or exterminated same same!
Kill one person , they call you a murderer!
Kill two or more , they call you a Terrorist!
Kill thousands , they call you a Conquerer! :evil:

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Tagmatium
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Posts: 16600
Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:56 am

Kobrania wrote:
Raul Caribe wrote:not banned

set up an insider find out all the members of the group then kill them. no more problems from them.

people who follow their beliefs might be mad but so what they already hate. so again not a problem.

You would support a government that would murder dissenters? :eyebrow:

Yep.

Only if they're brown, though.

Don't want any indigenous sorts getting killed.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Ifreann
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Posts: 164259
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:57 am

Tangomania wrote:Banned or exterminated same same!
Kill one person , they call you a murderer!
Kill two or more , they call you a Terrorist!
Kill thousands , they call you a Conquerer! :evil:

See, the difference between you and Islam4UK is that Islam4UK doesn't call for people's death. You do.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Nodinia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1008
Founded: Dec 08, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nodinia » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:59 am

Tagmatium wrote:
Raul Caribe wrote:not banned

set up an insider find out all the members of the group then kill them. no more problems from them.

people who follow their beliefs might be mad but so what they already hate. so again not a problem.

Not the kind of actions a democracy can really get away with, though.


They did it in the North. They did it in Aden and Burma......

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Tagmatium
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16600
Founded: Dec 17, 2004
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:00 am

Nodinia wrote:
Tagmatium wrote:
Raul Caribe wrote:not banned

set up an insider find out all the members of the group then kill them. no more problems from them.

people who follow their beliefs might be mad but so what they already hate. so again not a problem.

Not the kind of actions a democracy can really get away with, though.

They did it in the North. They did it in Aden and Burma......

But could it happen today, I suppose the question really is.

I honestly couldn't say without a doubt, but I don't think it could.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Tokos
Senator
 
Posts: 4870
Founded: Oct 28, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Tokos » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:43 am

I don't see the sense in making martyrs of them. Like it or not, Muslims are something we have to deal with and there's no sense needlessly aggravating relations.
The Confederal Fasces of Tokos

Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.05

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SD_Film Artists
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13400
Founded: Jun 10, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby SD_Film Artists » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:04 am

Banning them makes them look important. Instead just mock them.
Lurking NSG since 2005
Economic Left/Right: -2.62, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.67

When anybody preaches disunity, tries to pit one of us against each other through class warfare, race hatred, or religious intolerance, you know that person seeks to rob us of our freedom and destroy our very lives.

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EvilDarkMagicians
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Founded: Jul 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby EvilDarkMagicians » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:28 am

Islam4Uk Leader + Nick Griffin in a debate = Epic Lulz.

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Kobrania
Minister
 
Posts: 3446
Founded: May 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kobrania » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:30 am

EvilDarkMagicians wrote:Islam4Uk Leader + Nick Griffin in a debate = Epic Lulz.

More like epic street riots....
"Only when you acknowledge that your country has done evil and ignore it will you be a patriot." -TJ.

ZIONISM = JUSTIFYING GENOCIDE WITH GOD.

Kobrania, the anti-KMA.

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Tokos
Senator
 
Posts: 4870
Founded: Oct 28, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Tokos » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:32 am

Kobrania wrote:
EvilDarkMagicians wrote:Islam4Uk Leader + Nick Griffin in a debate = Epic Lulz.

More like epic street riots....


If Question Time is anything to go by, it would be along the lines of "You say WHAT about my father, pigdog!"
The Confederal Fasces of Tokos

Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.05

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