Should "bullycide" be murder?

[Wisconsin9]

There's a difference between accidentally driving someone to suicide because you didn't want your business to go under and accidentally driving someone to suicide because your deliberate psychological torture went a little bit farther than you expected.

And how would you codify this psychological torture without also making it illegal to be an asshole?

Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is oftenly repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying

It's almost like we already have definitions of bullying.

[Scyobayrynn]

A drunk driver may not mean to hurt anybody, but he's still going to jail for killing that family of four.

That's not a great analogy. The person, through their own volition, chooses death. Unlike a car accident, where I am fairly certain they do not choose death.

The bullied didnt pick the situation and likely wanted it to stop long before they got to the point of suicide, and likely tried to stop it long before it got to suicide.

So no it isnt bad analogy, because the bully /wants/ to hurt someone, the drunk driver at least doesnt.

[Chestaan]

Apparently not.

If you don't cut your wrists over every problem you're obviously a stupid conformist!

[Estva]

And how would you codify this psychological torture without also making it illegal to be an asshole?

Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is oftenly repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying

It's almost like we already have definitions of bullying.

So, then, the competitive nature of upper business also qualifies as bullying? Or, if I were to insult someone of lower social stature just once, that would also be bullying?

[Estva]

That's not a great analogy. The person, through their own volition, chooses death. Unlike a car accident, where I am fairly certain they do not choose death.

The bullied didnt pick the situation and likely wanted it to stop long before they got to the point of suicide, and likely tried to stop it long before it got to suicide.

So no it isnt bad analogy, because the bully /wants/ to hurt someone, the drunk driver at least doesnt.

One can cause suicide without bullying.

[Ainin]

There's nothing malicious or intended to cause harm behind firing someone, which cannot easily be said for bullying, which I'd think is malum in se. Is it murder? Absolutely not. Is it enough of an aggravating factor to be (in)voluntary manslaughter? That's debatable, and I'd think yes.

So if I insult someone, which is most certainly malicious, and they commit suicide as a result, should I then expect jail time?

Insulting someone is an act too trivial for any reasonable court to consider harmful enough to be an aggravating factor. And there's really no intent to actually harm a person by insulting them. Unless you yell something like "go kill yourself" and then they kill themselves, then you're clearly in the wrong.

[Wisconsin9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying

It's almost like we already have definitions of bullying.

So, then, the competitive nature of upper business also qualifies as bullying? Or, if I were to insult someone of lower social stature just once, that would also be bullying?

Did you read the actual sentences? Or did you just look at the words without bothering to string them together?

[Estva]

So if I insult someone, which is most certainly malicious, and they commit suicide as a result, should I then expect jail time?

Insulting someone is an act too trivial for any reasonable court to consider harmful enough to be an aggravating factor. And there's really no intent to actually harm a person by insulting them. Unless you yell something like "go kill yourself" and then they kill themselves, then you're clearly in the wrong.

"Too trivial" and how would you define this? I have, and most likely will in the future, insulted some people on a consistent basis because they are awful people, and they do the same to me.

And then what happens if I tell, say, a convicted child rapist to kill himself, and he does? Do I then deserve jail time?

[Manisdog]

Not my authority never, it has never happened, I think the entirety of the seniors decide or something, I mean but such things never happened, People enjoyed it, We ensured it was truth or dare with only dares

I enjoyed the fun

You "enjoying" doesn't matter, does it? That isn't a defense. You would cast away someone who rejected your orders, that is flat out what you have said. Would someone who rejected what they considered it to be sexual ridicule(regardless of whether or not you think so) be allowed into the group, or ever considered a full member?

It has never happened

[Cerillium]

If you don't cut your wrists over every problem you're obviously a stupid conformist!

That's the best summary I've seen to date.

[Scyobayrynn]

The bullied didnt pick the situation and likely wanted it to stop long before they got to the point of suicide, and likely tried to stop it long before it got to suicide.

So no it isnt bad analogy, because the bully /wants/ to hurt someone, the drunk driver at least doesnt.

One can cause suicide without bullying.

Yes, and one can cause many forms of death without intent, and it is in point of fact intent and state of mind that determines if something is criminal and what the crime is.

So Malicious Intent goes along towards making pushing someone to suicide a crime...unless you are really going to claim bullies dont have malicious intent.

[Ainin]

Insulting someone is an act too trivial for any reasonable court to consider harmful enough to be an aggravating factor. And there's really no intent to actually harm a person by insulting them. Unless you yell something like "go kill yourself" and then they kill themselves, then you're clearly in the wrong.

"Too trivial" and how would you define this? I have, and most likely will in the future, insulted some people on a consistent basis because they are awful people, and they do the same to me.

I wouldn't, the court would. But reasonably, it would require systematic harassment and a failure to stop after being clearly requested to do so by the other party, which wouldn't exist in your scenario.

And then what happens if I tell, say, a convicted child rapist to kill himself, and he does? Do I then deserve jail time?

Erm, yes you do. Someone doing something heinous isn't a licence for you to incite their death. At best, you'd be guilty of abetting suicide. At worst, it's voluntary manslaughter.

Justice is blind, and "this dude was a criminal" isn't a mitigating factor.

[Sanctissima]

Murder's a bit of a stretch, but it's certainly a lesser form of manslaughter.

Of course, it depends on the given scenario, but harassing someone into a dark depression and ultimately causing their demise is a form of killing, and should be legally treated accordingly.

[Conscentia]

[...] Edit: Wouldn't "Bullycide" technically be the killing of bullies?

Yes.

[Cerillium]

[...] Edit: Wouldn't "Bullycide" technically be the killing of bullies?

Yes.

We should start a tally sheet and add a slash every time someone points that out.

(Off topic: your new sig looks good.)

[Conscentia]

Yes.

We should start a tally sheet and add a slash every time someone points that out.

(Off topic: your new sig looks good.)

I counted 8 so far, including me.
IIII III

(Thank-you.)

[Greed and Death]

In general no, bullying someone who later commits suicide can not be attributed to the bully because of an intervening intentional act by the person committing suicide.

If the bullying falls under some other crime such as stalking, harassment, or assault then by all means punish the bully for those crimes and use the fact the victim committed suicide as a sentencing enhancement.

[Kumuri]

That's the best summary I've seen to date.

Love it.

Also, so what if someone is too weak to stand up for themselves? Do they need to get stronger? Well, there's certainly no harm in being stronger.
But doesn't that say something about the bully? They can't go face to face with someone of their own status and stature, they have to make themselves more confident by attacking someone clearly weaker than them? All of you arguing from that "darwinist" standpoint seem to overlook this.

Not to mention that bullying someone doesn't make them stronger, unless they're a specific kind of person. Most people are psychologically damaged by it. Telling them to "toughen up" doesn't do jack shit. It makes it worse. You make someone stronger by fortifying them and standing by their side, not by totally crushing them.

[Alizeria]

I don't think it should be classed as murder, but I do think that it should be a crime.

[The Black Forrest]

In general no, bullying someone who later commits suicide can not be attributed to the bully because of an intervening intentional act by the person committing suicide.

If the bullying falls under some other crime such as stalking, harassment, or assault then by all means punish the bully for those crimes and use the fact the victim committed suicide as a sentencing enhancement.

What would be the worst they could get?

There have been some rather heinous bullying incidents in the past. Basically a pack going after the person at school, at home (Net, phone calls, etc), and anywhere else.

[Gigaverse]

Anything with "-cide" just means "murder of", so yes, regardless of the target.

[Darmen]

Involuntary Manslaughter maybe, but even that might be too much.

[The Black Forrest]

That's the best summary I've seen to date.

Summary of what?

[Greed and Death]

In general no, bullying someone who later commits suicide can not be attributed to the bully because of an intervening intentional act by the person committing suicide.

If the bullying falls under some other crime such as stalking, harassment, or assault then by all means punish the bully for those crimes and use the fact the victim committed suicide as a sentencing enhancement.

What would be the worst they could get?

There have been some rather heinous bullying incidents in the past. Basically a pack going after the person at school, at home (Net, phone calls, etc), and anywhere else.

Depends on the underlying crime a pack of students physically assaulting someone could expect a few years behind bars someone whispering slut to another person over social media might only expect community service.

[The Black Forrest]

What would be the worst they could get?

There have been some rather heinous bullying incidents in the past. Basically a pack going after the person at school, at home (Net, phone calls, etc), and anywhere else.

Depends on the underlying crime a pack of students physically assaulting someone could expect a few years behind bars someone whispering slut to another person over social media might only expect community service.

Hmmmm.

Well in this incident it seemed to be a coordinated effort. The victim didn't have a "safe area" as mentioned, calls to the house, items left, etc.

There really wasn't a precedent at the time but the town people basically bullied the bullies after the details came out.