US/Cuba to Begin Talks

[Roski]

The only real talks we should be having is US Marines landing on the beaches.

I'm sorry, but I find these random dictatorships such as Iran and Cuba and Venezuela to be jokes, why don't we just finish them off one by one?

And then give Latin America more of a reason to cut ties with the United States since we're not respecting national sovereignty?

No thanks, this is only going to give Latin America more ammunition to actually distrust the United States, and that's the last thing we want, to lose our political hegemony.

Unless, you're also willing to actually make an American empire out of the whole continent and prove that we're no better than these dictatorships. Which would be par for the course, I mean we have proven not to be better than China already.

It would be more a slash at Russia, but ok then.

These nations wouldn't be annexed (that takes too much work), we could just topple the dictatorships and leave...

[Banderia]

Mind, they didn't genocide all the French, they killed all former slave owners. Which seems like poetic justice.

You are justifying genocide? Shame on you, please keep your racism somewhere other else.

and no, all french were killed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_Massacre

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Mind, they didn't genocide all the French, they killed all former slave owners. Which seems like poetic justice.

You are justifying genocide? Shame on you, please keep your racism somewhere other else.

and no, all french were killed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_Massacre

Well, what do you expect on a slave country where slaves were severely mistreated? People farting rainbows out of their ass? I'm not justifying it, I'm saying it's unsurprising given the fact of the historical background of the country, which is pretty unsurprising.

Yea, so France doesn't exist anymore? How did Haiti reach France? Underground tunnels? I guess since Haiti killed all the French, where it says "France" should now be called "Haiti", shouldn't it?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

And then give Latin America more of a reason to cut ties with the United States since we're not respecting national sovereignty?

No thanks, this is only going to give Latin America more ammunition to actually distrust the United States, and that's the last thing we want, to lose our political hegemony.

Unless, you're also willing to actually make an American empire out of the whole continent and prove that we're no better than these dictatorships. Which would be par for the course, I mean we have proven not to be better than China already.

It would be more a slash at Russia, but ok then.

These nations wouldn't be annexed (that takes too much work), we could just topple the dictatorships and leave...

And then leave political vacuums, because that hasn't proved to be a very bad idea, has it?

[Roski]

It would be more a slash at Russia, but ok then.

These nations wouldn't be annexed (that takes too much work), we could just topple the dictatorships and leave...

And then leave political vacuums, because that hasn't proved to be a very bad idea, has it?

ok, maybe a small occupation force.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

And then leave political vacuums, because that hasn't proved to be a very bad idea, has it?

ok, maybe a small occupation force.

And then have something akin to military juntas which obviously has never been experimented with before by any country.

[Roski]

ok, maybe a small occupation force.

And then have military juntas which obviously has never been experimented.

Not from a nation that is begging (mostly) for liberation???

Invading North Korea is not the same as invading Cuba...

[Eastern Equestria]

Yeah, seriously. That attitude is the biggest reason why Cuba cut off ties with the U.S. after the rise of Castro's regime. It's just extremely unfortunate that Castro also decided to turn Cuba into an authoritarian shithole with a failed socialist economy.

It is still better administrated historically than most of Central America and the Caribbean, though.

True, but at what cost?

[Banderia]

How cute that you don't recall almost half a century of bullshit you gave Latin America and why the perception of the United States by people down there is that you're a bunch of hypocrites. To bring another opinion I made in another thread, the CIA being assholes under the U.S. Government's authorization isn't anything new, Latin Americans have known this for years. If you think that the United States ever gave a shit about Latin America because "oh poor Latin Americans" it's time you wake up.

What you Latins dont understand is that the issue is something else. It is a more macrosocietal level.

The US has a different culture than Latin America. The US was from begin a pro-capitalist, individual and open society unlike Latin America which was collectivistic, feudal and closed society. The meassure that America used in Latin America was perceived as good by us while you interpreted on a different way as it did not fit in your cultural shape. That is a mistake of the US but than again sociology was not developed much back than.

for example we though that spreading capitalism was good as the US benefited a lot from it. But the US was not aware that you were a anti-capitalistic and anti-individual society.

You didn't save anyone from bolshevism, you pretty much shat all over people and then pretended you were doing a just cause while everyone in those countries went on and had civil wars anyways to get rid of the ton of shit dictators and juntas that were your legacy. Stop thinking that you're some kind of savior here because you're not, you had no problems with El Salvador juntas, the Somoza dictatorship, and Pinochet seemed not to concern you as long as we were kissing the ass of the United States.

I dont see a point all the mentioned were not prooven any connection with the us and they all prevented their countries from becoming a poor hellhole like Cuba.

And if you hate so much the US, why are you living here? Did somebody forced you to live in the evil US?

You invested in nothing. If anything you invited us to do free trade treaties, that's different. But you didn't go into a country and said "hey we'll invest in your economy" without getting something you wanted, so stop acting all altruistic

Our companies have paid the local workers for their labour, our companies paid taxes to the government our companies had improved the GDP of the countries. You should go and educate yourself.

[Kubra]

Blatant lie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_20_May_1802
Slavery was restored by this law for all french colonies, with the exception of Guadeloupe and Saint Domingue, with secret instruction given to both Richepanse and Leclerc to restore slavery in both places. In Guadeloupe, slavery really was restored
thankfully, the secret instructions given to Leclerc were preserved for posterity
http://www2.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti ... secret.htm

Yes, they did. Haiti was a hellhole before the French brought civilisation.

On what grounds? What did they bring to the table that the spanish did not?

And that all dont change the fact that the French liberated the slaves after they thanked by genociding them. Not all blacks were slaves on Haiti.

Perhaps they weren't, but the black slave nonetheless formed the majority of the population, and the black or mulatto slaveowner had just as much recourse to Paris and financial remuneration by the French Government as the white slaveowners. And as far as my knowledge goes, mass murder of slaveowners did not occur until the leadership of Dessalines, which was after the reinstatement of slavery and the execution Toussaint. You're the liar here, bruh.

[Banderia]

I'm sorry, but what the hell are you rambling about? Haiti is currently a hellhole, and Haiti can thank colonialism for that. Your historical revisionism in favor of brutal colonialism and slavery is not appreciated.

Haiti is independent for about 200 years and by now it should have taken responsibility for itself as it was ruled by "their" people and not some "racist colonialist".

[Roski]

Blatant lie.


Yes, they did. Haiti was a hellhole before the French brought civilisation.

And that all dont change the fact that the French liberated the slaves after they thanked by genociding them. Not all blacks were slaves on Haiti.

I'm sorry, but what the hell are you rambling about? Haiti is currently a hellhole, and Haiti can thank colonialism for that. Your historical revisionism in favor of brutal colonialism and slavery is not appreciated.

Haiti is a hellhole because a natural disaster struck the poor place. I am told it was relatively nice before the earthquake that hit the capital...

[Soldati Senza Confini]

How cute that you don't recall almost half a century of bullshit you gave Latin America and why the perception of the United States by people down there is that you're a bunch of hypocrites. To bring another opinion I made in another thread, the CIA being assholes under the U.S. Government's authorization isn't anything new, Latin Americans have known this for years. If you think that the United States ever gave a shit about Latin America because "oh poor Latin Americans" it's time you wake up.

What you Latins dont understand is that the issue is something else. It is a more macrosocietal level.

The US has a different culture than Latin America. The US was from begin a pro-capitalist, individual and open society unlike Latin America which was collectivistic, feudal and closed society. The meassure that America used in Latin America was perceived as good by us while you interpreted on a different way as it did not fit in your cultural shape. That is a mistake of the US but than again sociology was not developed much back than.

for example we though that spreading capitalism was good as the US benefited a lot from it. But the US was not aware that you were a anti-capitalistic and anti-individual society.

You didn't save anyone from bolshevism, you pretty much shat all over people and then pretended you were doing a just cause while everyone in those countries went on and had civil wars anyways to get rid of the ton of shit dictators and juntas that were your legacy. Stop thinking that you're some kind of savior here because you're not, you had no problems with El Salvador juntas, the Somoza dictatorship, and Pinochet seemed not to concern you as long as we were kissing the ass of the United States.

I dont see a point all the mentioned were not prooven any connection with the us and they all prevented their countries from becoming a poor hellhole like Cuba.

And if you hate so much the US, why are you living here? Did somebody forced you to live in the evil US?

You invested in nothing. If anything you invited us to do free trade treaties, that's different. But you didn't go into a country and said "hey we'll invest in your economy" without getting something you wanted, so stop acting all altruistic

Our companies have paid the local workers for their labour, our companies paid taxes to the government our companies had improved the GDP of the countries. You should go and educate yourself.

What you never understood was that it was our problems to begin with. You just acted out of a knee-jerk reaction going "COMMUNISM IN OUR BACKYARD!" without looking at the situation. No, that was too complicated for your government, was it? Or was it because you are so self-interested you were thinking that Russia would invade your backyard any moment and bring Armageddon upon you? Don't lie now, because we can all go read history books.

Oh no, not at all, except the CIA trained our death squads and funded a bunch of pricks under ARENA and even trained D'Aubuisson, you supported Somoza while the Sandinistas were trying to liberate the country from the Somoza dictatorship and we even have tons of evidence of the Iran-Contra affair, and the CIA also helped topple Allende by backing Pinochet's coup. That's nothing, right? Also, you helped nothing, many of these countries went ahead and solved their own issues without you anyways, who'd have thought?

Yea, and you also paid them peanuts while your companies had vast amounts of land in there and established powerful monopolies (United Fruit Company anyone?), again, stop acting like the world owes you shit, it doesn't.

As for why am I in the United States? That's none of your business. My point isn't to demonize the United States, is to make you realize that the United States doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone as soon as our interests are more important. We didn't give a flying shit back then during the Cold War, we don't give a fucking shit about what Cubans have to say about re-establishing relations because we didn't do it because of them to begin with. Sorry you don't think that way, but it's how our foreign policy works.

[The balkens]

Hearing Marco Rubio and others bitch and moan about this in particular has the odd effect of being music to my ears and being annoying as well.

[Banderia]

Well, what do you expect on a slave country where slaves were severely mistreated? People farting rainbows out of their ass? I'm not justifying it, I'm saying it's unsurprising given the fact of the historical background of the country, which is pretty unsurprising.

Actually yes as the french abolished slavery.

Yea, so France doesn't exist anymore? How did Haiti reach France? Underground tunnels? I guess since Haiti killed all the French, where it says "France" should now be called "Haiti", shouldn't

Apsolutely. The most Haitians like most Latins cannot run their countries, so it would probably be better for the Haitian people to be like Gaudalope, a part of France.

That doesn't matter, his policy was atrocious and literally made Cuba a United States' puppet.

And why is it that you have so much sentimentalism? It's not like this is the 1950s. The 50s and 60s are gone, and I doubt you were alive back then to even be all "oh my God, nooo! Why Cuba, why?!"

You are suffering in myths. The US never intervened in Cubas internal affairs. That would only happened in cases if the Cuban society were suffering some major cause like in the case of Castros revolution. But Castro was unfortunately tolerted as he claimed he was just figting for democracy which the Cubans also though and not communism.

The only thing what the US implement in Cubas being was the Theft amandmends which we had right as we created Cuba as an independent countries. Remeber that Cuba was our responsibility as our project so the Amendmends were serving that purpose.

Well for the second paragraph I would not talk about it.

[Second Blazing]

...on normalizing relations.

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30516740

This is huge in my opinion. After a half century of the (I would argue) failed Cuban embargo, to see the US/Cuba finally move out of a Cold War mentality into the 21st century is a welcome change of pace.

What say you NSG? Do you see the talks succeeding? Will they lead to concrete change in Cuba, politically or socially? Or will the talks fail due to likely opposition in the now Republican controlled US Congress?

The only thing we should be taking to the Castros about is whether or not they want their heads on silver platters or gold.

[Fortschritte]

...on normalizing relations.

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30516740

This is huge in my opinion. After a half century of the (I would argue) failed Cuban embargo, to see the US/Cuba finally move out of a Cold War mentality into the 21st century is a welcome change of pace.

What say you NSG? Do you see the talks succeeding? Will they lead to concrete change in Cuba, politically or socially? Or will the talks fail due to likely opposition in the now Republican controlled US Congress?

The only thing we should be taking to the Castros about is whether or not they want their heads on silver platters or gold.

Thank god you're not a diplomat.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well, what do you expect on a slave country where slaves were severely mistreated? People farting rainbows out of their ass? I'm not justifying it, I'm saying it's unsurprising given the fact of the historical background of the country, which is pretty unsurprising.

Actually yes as the french abolished slavery.

Yea, so France doesn't exist anymore? How did Haiti reach France? Underground tunnels? I guess since Haiti killed all the French, where it says "France" should now be called "Haiti", shouldn't

Apsolutely. The most Haitians like most Latins cannot run their countries, so it would probably be better for the Haitian people to be like Gaudalope, a part of France.

That doesn't matter, his policy was atrocious and literally made Cuba a United States' puppet.

And why is it that you have so much sentimentalism? It's not like this is the 1950s. The 50s and 60s are gone, and I doubt you were alive back then to even be all "oh my God, nooo! Why Cuba, why?!"

You are suffering in myths. The US never intervened in Cubas internal affairs. That would only happened in cases if the Cuban society were suffering some major cause like in the case of Castros revolution. But Castro was unfortunately tolerted as he claimed he was just figting for democracy which the Cubans also though and not communism.

The only thing what the US implement in Cubas being was the Theft amandmends which we had right as we created Cuba as an independent countries. Remeber that Cuba was our responsibility as our project so the Amendmends were serving that purpose.

Well for the second paragraph I would not talk about it.

It really, really wasn't or isn't surprising. The only ones who had a surprise were the French, but at that point it was like pissing at the wind really, considering they gave them freedom but it didn't reach the news after the massacre.

Didn't you just call me a racist just a post back? Pot, meet kettle. Also, nice work proving you also can't comprehend what I'm writing.

Oh no, I am not saying that the US intervened, I am saying Batista basically gave the island to American investors, which is different. The fact of the matter is that Batista is a pretty shitty example of how great Cuba was and I see people fapping about him constantly. He was an asshole, and Castro is too, but Castro is a nationalistic asshole so it was more palatable to the Cubans.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The only thing we should be taking to the Castros about is whether or not they want their heads on silver platters or gold.

Thank god you're not a diplomat.

If any of the guys in this thread who are so vehement against these were our president or diplomat, we should be scared, very scared. They'd bring upon WW3 on us.

[Roski]

The only thing we should be taking to the Castros about is whether or not they want their heads on silver platters or gold.

Thank god you're not a diplomat.

I don't claim to be a diplomat.

But I'd sure as hell support it.

[Greater Soviet Ukraine]

That's one way to break the ice.

[Communist Volkstrad]

Thank god you're not a diplomat.

If any of the guys in this thread who are so vehement against these were our president or diplomat, we should be scared, very scared. They'd bring upon WW3 on us.

Very much this.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Apsolutely. The most Haitians like most Latins cannot run their countries, so it would probably be better for the Haitian people to be like Gaudalope, a part of France.

* Latinos, Latins were the people from the Ancient Latium who founded Rome.

Kindly fuck your colonialism and imperialism off.

[Montoso]

Should I tell you why?

Because Haitis best years was when it was under French rule. It was a prosperous island with a high economy. Haitians did not learn how to run their country so they went how they went. At least they could be thankfull to the French people for cultivating the country. Since Haitis independence the land was becoming through time even more poor.

It was also y'know a slave state but hey who cares! Some french citizens who happened to live on Haiti were rich so it was a good time for haiti!

No. After Independence Haiti , became an Empire. It had an elective monarchy. When the Emperor was eliminated political turmoil caused Haiti to split into two nations. A Northern State with President Henry Christophe and a Southern Republic. The Southern republic had land reforms. The problem was that the people initiated subsistence farming. Thus the sugar exports which brought in the money dried up. In the Northern State after a few years, President Henry Christophe decided to turn his State into a Kingdom and he became King Henry Christophe . However, unlike in the South they had no land reforms thus no subsistence farming. They had a semi-feudal land system. They kept the large farms pretty much intact which meant that they could grow and export much sugar which was very much valued in Europe. The Northern Kingdom raked in the money. So the King decided to build Citadels and a Palace. He really spent like no tomorrow. When he was no longer around, the Kingdom fell and joined the Southern Republic.

Photo of the Kings palace which is called the Sans souci palace which has been abandoned -
http://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer ... ser=125370

Photo of the famous Citadel which he built. It was never attacked. It supposedly is the largest Citadel in the world.
http://www.worldfortravel.com/wp-conten ... rriere.jpg

Map
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 8-1820.png

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Apsolutely. The most Haitians like most Latins cannot run their countries, so it would probably be better for the Haitian people to be like Gaudalope, a part of France.

* Latinos, Latins were the people who from the Ancient Latium who founded Rome.

Kindly fuck your colonialism and imperialism off.

I mean, is very telling when the first thing you see are pretty blatant hints of American Jingoism and blatant disregard of modern Foreign Relations.