US/Cuba to Begin Talks

[Rio Cana]

Not according to my Cuban family in Cuba.

Chinese people can also say the same about the U.S. trading with China. Yet we still do it.

Let's be honest with ourselves, the U.S. only did what it did for political reasons, not because of some humanitarian grandiose move like Cubans think.

Like I said before, the US most likely did it for image fixing in Latin America and the Caribbean region which translates to more Hispanic votes in the US for the democrats. And Russia be weary. The Russians were planning to reopen a spy communications/radar station in Cuba . So Cuba might be swayed to drag there feet on that. After all, the Russians did dump them after the Soviets fell. They are only getting interested again because of there conflict with the West.

[Arcanda]

Trading with Cuba was never a necessity, hence it was stopped.I do believe they stopped it because they could.Cuba is breaking Human Rights.

Every country that we deal with that has been deplorable has broken Human Rights wantonly yet we don't embargo them for something like Human Rights.

Because if you stopped trading with China, for exemple, it would greatly harm your economy.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Chinese people can also say the same about the U.S. trading with China. Yet we still do it.

Let's be honest with ourselves, the U.S. only did what it did for political reasons, not because of some humanitarian grandiose move like Cubans think.

Like I said before, the US most likely did it for image fixing in Latin America and the Caribbean region which translates to more Hispanic votes in the US for the democrats. And Russian be weary. The Russians were planning to reopen a spy communications/radar station in Cuba . So Cuba might be swayed to drag there feet on that. After all, the Russians did dump them after the Soviets fell. They are only getting interested again because of there conflict with the West.

That'd be my thinking too.

There's no reason to reopen relations with Cuba, even though we understand the embargo is fucking useless (it is, it has done nothing to sway the Cubans or the International community from stopping to trade with them or for Cuba to change its regime). The fact this is yet another policy move against Russia doesn't surprise me.

[Lancaster of Wessex]

Every country that we deal with that has been deplorable has broken Human Rights wantonly yet we don't embargo them for something like Human Rights.

Because if you stopped trading with China, for exemple, it would greatly harm your economy.

Ah, so the US is only interested in defending human rights as long as it doesn't hurt their economy.

$ > human rights *nods*

Everyone knows that, anyway. That's politics.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Every country that we deal with that has been deplorable has broken Human Rights wantonly yet we don't embargo them for something like Human Rights.

Because if you stopped trading with China, for exemple, it would greatly harm your economy.

Right, and that's my reasoning as to why we're opening relations with Cuba too.

We want something from them, and like Cana said, they have a reason now with Russia planning to open spy stations near our shores. We don't just do this just because we're so good and sanctimonious.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Because if you stopped trading with China, for exemple, it would greatly harm your economy.

Ah, so the US is only interested in defending human rights as long as it doesn't hurt their economy our interests.

$ Our interests > human rights *nods*

Everyone knows that, anyway. That's politics.

Fixed for you

The fact is both our economy and our security are our interests. The United States is a pretty self-interested nation, and just because Cuba is Cuba that won't stop us from opening relations with them if it means we get what we want out of them to preserve our sovereignty and enhance our security interests.

[Lancaster of Wessex]

Ah, so the US is only interested in defending human rights as long as it doesn't hurt their economy our interests.

$ Our interests > human rights *nods*

Everyone knows that, anyway. That's politics.

Fixed for you

The fact is both our economy and our security are our interests. The United States is a pretty self-interested nation, and just because Cuba is Cuba that won't stop us from opening relations with them if it means we get what we want out of them to preserve our sovereignty and enhance our security interests.

I hate fixing. ;P

Fortunately, I agree with your points anyway.

When I said "their economy" I meant America's.

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

Trading with Cuba was never a necessity, hence it was stopped.I do believe they stopped it because they could.Cuba is breaking Human Rights.

So does pretty much every country, including the US. Plenty of countries could be embargoed by the US without much financial harm, yet the US doesn't, please explain that to me.

[Cyrisnia]

Sarcasm?

No, Obama is making us look bad!

[Fortschritte]

No, Obama is making us look bad!

He's being sarcastic.

[Yitzchak Winternitz]

Cuba is a failed nation, I think America could really improve it for the better. It benefits both sides to remove the embargo and get some unilateral trade going.

[Lancaster of Wessex]

Cuba is a failed nation, I think America could really improve it for the better. It benefits both sides to remove the embargo and get some unilateral trade going.

I'd hardly call Cuba a failed nation.

From Wiki:

HDI (Human Development Index, 2013) Steady 0.815 (out of 1)
Ranked: very high · 44th

[Valaran]

Some good news. The embargo was bluntly, ineffective, and the blanket refusal to negotiate on it also had the added negative effect of annoying other central american nations (apparently one of their main issues with the US was lifting the embargo).

[Skinia]

Cuba is a failed nation, I think America could really improve it for the better. It benefits both sides to remove the embargo and get some unilateral trade going.

I'd hardly call Cuba a failed nation.

From Wiki:

HDI (Human Development Index, 2013) Steady 0.815 (out of 100)
Ranked: very high · 44th

Just a teensy weensy little correction: steady 0.815 out of 1.0, right?

I would love to see Cuba's inequality-adjusted HDI standing.

[Lancaster of Wessex]

I'd hardly call Cuba a failed nation.

From Wiki:

HDI (Human Development Index, 2013) Steady 0.815 (out of 100)
Ranked: very high · 44th

Just a teensy weensy little correction: steady 0.815 out of 1.0, right?

I would love to see Cuba's inequality-adjusted HDI standing.

Correct, apologies, out of 1. Shall edit.

[Eastern Equestria]

Not according to my Cuban family in Cuba.

Chinese people can also say the same about the U.S. trading with China. Yet we still do it.

Let's be honest with ourselves, the U.S. only did what it did for political reasons, not because of some humanitarian grandiose move like Cubans think.

I agree. But Cuba is still a fucking shitty place to live for all but those in the upper echelons of its communist party.

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

Chinese people can also say the same about the U.S. trading with China. Yet we still do it.

Let's be honest with ourselves, the U.S. only did what it did for political reasons, not because of some humanitarian grandiose move like Cubans think.

I agree. But Cuba is still a fucking shitty place to live for all but those in the upper echelons of its communist party.

So is the case in many countries, the US is also alot shit to grow up in if you're poor compared to if you're wealthy.

[Eastern Equestria]

I agree. But Cuba is still a fucking shitty place to live for all but those in the upper echelons of its communist party.

So is the case in many countries, the US is also alot shit to grow up in if you're poor compared to if you're wealthy.

What's your point? I never refuted either of those things, neither of which have anything to do with the state of living in Cuba.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

And yet we do not embargo China, the Sauds, and innumerable other governments, not to mention the US installed or supported several terrorist states themselves in the past.

Right, because there were millions of Americans owning personal property in PRC before they took over, and there are flocks and flocks and flocks of Chinese into America to escape the brutal and miserable regime.

What's Sauds?

So it only matters when Americans or their property are affected or harmed? Otherwise, we should care less and not take any sort of action? And being a terrorist state is permissible, so long as they have the support of the US or owe their regime installation to the US?

And the Sauds. You know, the rulers of the Saudi Arabian Regime?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Chinese people can also say the same about the U.S. trading with China. Yet we still do it.

Let's be honest with ourselves, the U.S. only did what it did for political reasons, not because of some humanitarian grandiose move like Cubans think.

I agree. But Cuba is still a fucking shitty place to live for all but those in the upper echelons of its communist party.

Oh indeed, I never disputed that.

I'm just saying the United States opening relations with Cuba isn't surprising from any angle, we were going to have to do it sooner or later, if not out of the war hawks becoming irrelevant and people seeing the embargo is fucking pointless, it was going to be out of pragmatist politics to preserve our national security interests abroad (which would also come to the conclusion that the embargo is fucking pointless).

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

So is the case in many countries, the US is also alot shit to grow up in if you're poor compared to if you're wealthy.

What's your point? I never refuted either of those things, neither of which have anything to do with the state of living in Cuba.

Point is that what you say isn't a "Cuban" thing, its the case almost everywhere.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

So it only matters when Americans or their property are affected or harmed? Otherwise, we should care less and not take any sort of action? And being a terrorist state is permissible, so long as they have the support of the US or owe their regime installation to the US?

Yes, are you surprised this is our Foreign Policy?

It has always been this way since Kissinger pioneered realpolitik as our Foreign Policy approach.

[Saiwania]

I'm against the US lifting the embargo on Cuba, it may not work- but point is that Cuba never intends to provide any compensation for the foreign owned property that was nationalized in their 1959 revolution and no nation has the right to trade with the US if the US decides that they aren't doing business with certain governments.

Neither the US or Cuba need the other, both nations have plenty of other trading partners. The US isn't missing out on anything spectacular in choosing not to trade with Cuba. Only Cuba would primarily benefit from the embargo being lifted.

[Eastern Equestria]

What's your point? I never refuted either of those things, neither of which have anything to do with the state of living in Cuba.

Point is that what you say isn't a "Cuban" thing, its the case almost everywhere.

That's nice. Doesn't change the fact that Cuba is the country with the least political freedom in the Western Hemisphere by a considerable margin.

[United Marxist Nations]

But wouldn't that be in direct opposition to the free market?

Sometimes, human rights trump the free market.

That's commie talk and you know it!