NationStates

Ifreann wrote:

Urran wrote:He's not a real Christian, he's a hypocrite. It's one thing to tell someone that they are in sin (not saying homosexuality is sin) and ask them to change their ways, if they do yay, if they don't, it's their business. However, it's another thing entirely to tell someone to die for being a sinner.

Hello! Jesus said to bring the gospel to all nations and all people so they wouldn't die and go to Hell! Where does he get off calling himself a Christian and telling someone to go and kill themselves for not believing the way he does?

How is he not a real Christian? Did he fake his baptism?

Being baptised and going to church doesn't make you Christian. Neither does reading the Bible, even atheists can do that. No, being a true Christian means being Christ like. As far as I know, the Jesus that I love and talk to never told anyone to kill themselves, nor did he approve of discrimination or hate speech. In other words, this pastor failed the basic Biblical definition of Christian. He does, however, fir nicely into the category of those Jesus chastised for being hypocrites.

There are some really sick people in this world..

Urran wrote:He's not a real Christian, he's a hypocrite. It's one thing to tell someone that they are in sin (not saying homosexuality is sin) and ask them to change their ways, if they do yay, if they don't, it's their business. However, it's another thing entirely to tell someone to die for being a sinner.

Hello! Jesus said to bring the gospel to all nations and all people so they wouldn't die and go to Hell! Where does he get off calling himself a Christian and telling someone to go and kill themselves for not believing the way he does?

I agree with your sentiment, but I believe that's a little too extreme. You can't really say for sure that anyone other then yourself is or is not a Christian. I agree that the pastor's actions do not fall in line with Christian ideals, but don't all Christians partake in actions that don't befit a Christian sometimes? Here's the problem, all Christians are hypocrites, because none of them are able to attain the standard that they are meant to follow. The pastor certainly has some un-Christian sentiments, but it's a bit unfair to claim he must not be a Christian as a result.

Dumb Ideologies wrote:

Olerand wrote:Indeed. Hit on me -----> Die!

That's a thoroughly reasonable and proportionate reaction.

It's my usual reaction to people flirting.

Olerand wrote:

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
That's a thoroughly reasonable and proportionate reaction.

It's my usual reaction to people flirting.

Hey i find you attractive!

Oh thanks, have a shotgun blast to the face!

Why can't we all just stop acting like we've got hatred shoved up our asses, and just love each other for who we are? The world would be allot better if that happened, but apparently there's always at least one person who chooses to be a hater and act like a complete asshole.

Skinia wrote:

Albion Rhodesia wrote:The pastor is simply expressing his right to free speech, which in a free country there is nothing wrong with that. Secondly he's a minister of the faith and to be honest had he been pro-gay or made comments supporting the gay movement then a majority of his congregation would have either been shocked or totally horrified.

In a free society you can't force others to believe in any particular ideology, and it's just as hateful and evil for those who're pushing a gay agenda to force others to recognize their lifestyle, just as much as it would be to force those of the gay nature to become Baptists.

Finally, so long as we are a free society and the fact that the pastor never physically harmed the gay man, nor did he encourage his congregation to harm him, but clearly said that should be a job for the government. It's truly sad and a bit frightening that we as a society now spend our time attacking those who have moral and religious convictions and who peacefully through only their language stand up against ideas and practices which they feel are immoral.

The majority of three people and a dog, you mean. Poor doggy.

In a free society you can't force others to adopt your own lifestyle either. Also, no one's forcing a gay lifestyle on anyone. I would tell you to get your head out your ass like I'd normally do when people had these completely incorrect and not based in facts opinions but I already got banned for that so lemme just pat you on the head and say: "It's alright buddy, you still have very much to learn."

It's truly fucking sad that those who dish it out can't take it themselves. You cry about free speech but can't take it when we exercise our free speech to criticize you. Freedom comes with responsibility.

The OP clearly implied that there should be a law against this sort of thing. Since Rhodesia didn't specify who he/she was referring to, one should assume he/she was referring to the OP, in which case clearly there WAS a call for censorship to respond to.

Way to discredit yourself.

Novorobo wrote:

Skinia wrote:The majority of three people and a dog, you mean. Poor doggy.

In a free society you can't force others to adopt your own lifestyle either. Also, no one's forcing a gay lifestyle on anyone. I would tell you to get your head out your ass like I'd normally do when people had these completely incorrect and not based in facts opinions but I already got banned for that so lemme just pat you on the head and say: "It's alright buddy, you still have very much to learn."

It's truly fucking sad that those who dish it out can't take it themselves. You cry about free speech but can't take it when we exercise our free speech to criticize you. Freedom comes with responsibility.

The OP clearly implied that there should be a law against this sort of thing. Since Rhodesia didn't specify who he/she was referring to, one should assume he/she was referring to the OP, in which case clearly there WAS a call for censorship to respond to.

Way to discredit yourself.

What 'call of censorship'? The fuck you talking about? Rhodesia said nothing about censorship.

Novorobo wrote:

Skinia wrote:The majority of three people and a dog, you mean. Poor doggy.

In a free society you can't force others to adopt your own lifestyle either. Also, no one's forcing a gay lifestyle on anyone. I would tell you to get your head out your ass like I'd normally do when people had these completely incorrect and not based in facts opinions but I already got banned for that so lemme just pat you on the head and say: "It's alright buddy, you still have very much to learn."

It's truly fucking sad that those who dish it out can't take it themselves. You cry about free speech but can't take it when we exercise our free speech to criticize you. Freedom comes with responsibility.

The OP clearly implied that there should be a law against this sort of thing.

There is a slight difference between freedom of speech and an active call to commit genocide.
Though I admit the distinction can be tricky.

The Alma Mater wrote:

Novorobo wrote:The OP clearly implied that there should be a law against this sort of thing.

There is a slight difference between freedom of speech and an active call to commit genocide.
Though I admit the distinction can be tricky.

Their should be a limit on freedom of speech

This is a good example of people taking complete advantage of their freedom of speech. There is a huge difference between using freedom of speech and clearly threatening someone's life. Now this situation could've been worse, how? The man could of actually killed himself because of this, now if that would've happened everyone would have reacted differently, which I think is pretty sad. Now people only pay attention to specific incidences considering these kind of things, these things happen everyday and sometimes it ends badly. I know this for a fact, I once went through this everyday, I tried my best to ignore people and the horrible comments they made towards me for being 'different'. I ignored it to the point where I isolated myself from everyone including my family, it went so far as to where I wouldn't even leave my own room for I believed everyone was out to get me. The worst comment made to me was by a girl over the internet she told me how disgusting I was and how the world would be a better place if I jumped off a cliff. That's the comment that made me lose it, I actually ended up beginning to cut myself and went into a deep depression for 5 years now. This has gone on since I was 12, its sad but true, I ended up jumping on a cliff when I was 14. I survived though, I was hospitalized for a few weeks. I left a note thinking I would actually die, but I didn't, I am a survivor and I am dedicated to all of those who go through the same things as I do. These kind of comments can severely harm someone, so I just want to say how much this disgusts me. This kind of bullshit needs to stop, be careful what you say to people, it could be the last thing they ever hear.

Skinia wrote:

Novorobo wrote:The OP clearly implied that there should be a law against this sort of thing. Since Rhodesia didn't specify who he/she was referring to, one should assume he/she was referring to the OP, in which case clearly there WAS a call for censorship to respond to.

Way to discredit yourself.

What 'call of censorship'? The fuck you talking about? Rhodesia said nothing about censorship.

But the OP Rhodesia was responding to did.

Alizeria wrote:So what is the solution? There are already calls for him to be fired by the church, although given that he has actually advocated for genocide I think that more serious penalties ought to apply. I'm no legal expert but off the top of my head New Zealand has laws against hate speech and against inciting to violence or threatening people with death - and I'm sure that a substantial enough case could be made that this particular individual is in breach of such laws.

lol @ pastor telling people to commit sins

Novorobo wrote:

Skinia wrote:What 'call of censorship'? The fuck you talking about? Rhodesia said nothing about censorship.

But the OP Rhodesia was responding to did.

Alizeria wrote:So what is the solution? There are already calls for him to be fired by the church, although given that he has actually advocated for genocide I think that more serious penalties ought to apply. I'm no legal expert but off the top of my head New Zealand has laws against hate speech and against inciting to violence or threatening people with death - and I'm sure that a substantial enough case could be made that this particular individual is in breach of such laws.

The OP mentioned no such thing.

Firsthome wrote:

CTALNH wrote:I am not afraid of the maker! The living god Corypheus is at my side.

And also a bunch of desire demonesses.

Those be the best

Indeed they can do things with their hooves you would not believe.

Skinia wrote:

Novorobo wrote:But the OP Rhodesia was responding to did.

The OP mentioned no such thing.

"Hate speech" laws aren't about criticizing speech, they're about restricting it. Hence the term "laws."

The same applies whether you consider it a justified form of censorship or not.

Urran wrote:

Ifreann wrote:How is he not a real Christian? Did he fake his baptism?

Being baptised and going to church doesn't make you Christian. Neither does reading the Bible, even atheists can do that. No, being a true Christian means being Christ like.

Says who?

As far as I know, the Jesus that I love and talk to never told anyone to kill themselves, nor did he approve of discrimination or hate speech. In other words, this pastor failed the basic Biblical definition of Christian.

Chapter and verse?

He does, however, fir nicely into the category of those Jesus chastised for being hypocrites.

How's that?

CTALNH wrote:

Otrenia wrote:
Mind yourself little Timmy, or else God says I can kill you.

I am not afraid of the maker! The living god Corypheus is at my side.

And also a bunch of desire demonesses.

The time of physical deities is at an end .

Westcity? Sounds like Westboro.

Olerand wrote:Does this not violate hate speech, or does it not constitute incitement to violence? How is this legal?

Don't tell me New Zealand has America's definition of freedom of speech.

We do, but it's very broad and mostly against racism. Also, for those who think he should be "excommunicated", this is an independent church.

Geilinor wrote:Westcity? Sounds like Westboro.

That's what I thought as well.

Albion Rhodesia wrote:

Skinia wrote:The majority of three people and a dog, you mean. Poor doggy.

In a free society you can't force others to adopt your own lifestyle either. Also, no one's forcing a gay lifestyle on anyone. I would tell you to get your head out your ass like I'd normally do when people had these completely incorrect and not based in facts opinions but I already got banned for that so lemme just pat you on the head and say: "It's alright buddy, you still have very much to learn."

It's truly fucking sad that those who dish it out can't take it themselves. You cry about free speech but can't take it when we exercise our free speech to criticize you. Freedom comes with responsibility.

You have a very naive view of the world, but I do hope you do educate yourself more on the real world.

However, unfortunately the gay community has a more powerful lobby than that of the Christian community in this day and age, and generally pastors or any preacher of the faith for that matter ends up being defamed, and insulted by a combination of liberal media and liberal activism, while conversely those on the left with an agenda don't take criticism well and will demonize anyone who doesn't agree with any of their agenda issues.

Nah, you're the one with the naive and uneducated worldview, here.

It has nothing to do with "lobbies" or "gays vs Christians", or "liberal media" (which actually isn't, its more centrist than anything else), or "liberal activism", or any of that bullshit.

The guy literally told two people to kill themselves, and then advocated for mass murder.

The first part is, as far as I'm aware, not actionable by law. However, that doesn't mean we can't call him out for his bullshit. The second part, I do believe, IS legally actionable, and even if it wasn't, we can still call him out on it.

"Muh free speech" doesn't protect you from the social consequences of said speech, however much you don't like it.

West(city) Bible Baptist Church
Westboro Baptist Church

….

It's a conspiracy.

Anyway, lock him up for incitements to violence.

Grenartia wrote:The first part is, as far as I'm aware, not actionable by law.

Only if it's racist, which is how far the hate speech laws in New Zealand extend. We haven't got around to preventing hate speech on gender/sexual orientation (at least that I am aware of).

Not that it matters. Given the public backlash, I am confident that many people here are sane enough to regard this person as nothing more than a lunatic.

Oh, god. How thick, big-headed and extremely rude can someone be?! How stupid can people be?! How arrogant can someone be?! I hate people who say things like this. I do. I say shun this man, and let him live his life in shame.