Abortion: Humane or not?

[Mavorpen]

It isn't. Whether it is a human being or person is irrelevant. No human being or person can enter a woman's body against their will.

Actually, given the sex was consented to, it's quite willful.

No it isn't. Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.

That doesn't make any sense. If you're going to be blatantly sexist at least make something resembling sense.

If you're going to be blatantly spiteful of children, please do the same.

I'm not. There are no children being discussed.

[Jamzmania]

Everyone seems to be denying the undeniably special and unique relationship between a mother and her child, not comparable to anything else.

[Galloism]

It isn't. Whether it is a human being or person is irrelevant. No human being or person can enter a woman's body against their will.

They never "entered." They were created there.

Matter can be neither created not destroyed.

Everything in your body entered it in some form. Most of it you consent to being there. Some you don't. Sometimes you withdraw its consent partway through.

I had a really big burger earlier today. I think in an hour or two I'll be removing the consent for part of it to remain.

[Sanctissima]

Actually, given the sex was consented to, it's quite willful.

When a cop goes on patrol, does he consent to being shot?
He may acknowledge it's a risk, but does he consent to it?

Further, would you say he has no right to demand the bullet removed?

The cop goes on patrol willingly. The key difference regarding being shot is that it's not exactly what one might consider a pleasurable experience. Unless of course you're a sadomasochist, in which case, who am I to judge.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm of the view that viability and risks should determine case-by-case whether or not an abortion is okay to do from a medical angle.

The less viable to live outside the womb the fetus is the less "rights" it has for medical professionals to be concerned about their life. You can't give rights to a cell in the same proportion as a neonate. That's not how we operate or how we should operate.

I see your point, but, personally, I think that from conception afterwards, the mother has a responsibility to carry the child. Philosophically, my stance is flawed, since I'm basically giving a single-celled embryo the right to live. Morally, since this cell has a very good chance to develop into a fetus, and later, a fully formed human baby, I think my stance is quite strong.

Not necessarily if you flip the tables around (as they should be) and consider the rights and morals to the mother's life more important than the fetus.

The mother, just by conceiving doesn't stop being a human being whose rights, morals, and agency cease to exist. What you're suggesting is that women lose their agency to think about their pregnancy and "deal with it" once the child is born.

And we give personhood to humans for a good reason.

[Mavorpen]

Everyone seems to be denying the undeniably special and unique relationship between a mother and her child, not comparable to anything else.

...what?

[Ostroeuropa]

When a cop goes on patrol, does he consent to being shot?
He may acknowledge it's a risk, but does he consent to it?

Further, would you say he has no right to demand the bullet removed?

The cop goes on patrol willingly. The key difference regarding being shot is that it's not exactly what one might consider a pleasurable experience. Unless of course you're a sadomasochist, in which case, who am I to judge.

You think childbirth is a pleasurable experience?

[Lost heros]

Everyone seems to be denying the undeniably special and unique relationship between a mother and her child, not comparable to anything else.

How can a woman and a clump of replicating cells residing within her body without her consent have a relationship that is in any way comparable to that of a mother and a child?

[Mavorpen]

When a cop goes on patrol, does he consent to being shot?
He may acknowledge it's a risk, but does he consent to it?

Further, would you say he has no right to demand the bullet removed?

The cop goes on patrol willingly. The key difference regarding being shot is that it's not exactly what one might consider a pleasurable experience. Unless of course you're a sadomasochist, in which case, who am I to judge.

And pregnancy is?

You've never met a woman that has been pregnant, have you?

[Ostroeuropa]

Everyone seems to be denying the undeniably special and unique relationship between a mother and her child, not comparable to anything else.

What?

[Jamzmania]

Actually, given the sex was consented to, it's quite willful.

No it isn't. Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.

If you're going to be blatantly spiteful of children, please do the same.

I'm not. There are no children being discussed.

There are unique, developing human organisms, though.

[Camelza]

If you're going to be blatantly spiteful of children, please do the same.

I'm not. There are no children being discussed.

He propably considers, through a quite weird type of logic, that fetuses are children, thus he is unable to understand why we care more for the rights of the mother rather than the life of the fetus.

[Allentyr]

Everyone seems to be denying the undeniably special and unique relationship between a mother and her child, not comparable to anything else.

u wat m8

[The Nuclear Fist]

Everyone seems to be denying the undeniably special and unique relationship between a mother and her child, not comparable to anything else.

Which is a load of horse shit. There is no inherent special quality to the mother-child relationship, and many people had better relationships with their fathers.

[Mavorpen]

No it isn't. Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.

I'm not. There are no children being discussed.

There are unique, developing human organisms, though.

Ok.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Everyone seems to be denying the undeniably special and unique relationship between a mother and her child, not comparable to anything else.

Huh?

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about abortion, not baby showers.

[Camelza]

No it isn't. Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.

I'm not. There are no children being discussed.

There are unique, developing human organisms, though.

Since when organisms should have rights for being organisms?

[Jamzmania]

Everyone seems to be denying the undeniably special and unique relationship between a mother and her child, not comparable to anything else.

How can a woman and a clump of replicating cells residing within her body without her consent have a relationship that is in any way comparable to that of a mother and a child?

It is not a clump of cells, it is a human organism completely unique from any other in the world.

[Sanctissima]

The cop goes on patrol willingly. The key difference regarding being shot is that it's not exactly what one might consider a pleasurable experience. Unless of course you're a sadomasochist, in which case, who am I to judge.

You think childbirth is a pleasurable experience?

I think that consensual sex is, otherwise, why do it?

Anyone who has consensual sex realizes that pregnancy is a possibility, unless of course they've lived the entirety of their lives under a rock, sucking nutrition from dew water and the occasional passing earthworm.

Unprotected sex has consequences, if you really don't want to get pregnant, then simply don't have sex.

[Galloism]

The cop goes on patrol willingly. The key difference regarding being shot is that it's not exactly what one might consider a pleasurable experience. Unless of course you're a sadomasochist, in which case, who am I to judge.

You think childbirth is a pleasurable experience?

Well...about 0.3% of births result in orgasms.

[Teara Romaneasca]

Wrong. For it to be a baby it has to have been born.

(Quote above from Dyakovo)

Black and white.

[Dyakovo]

Everyone seems to be denying the undeniably special and unique relationship between a mother and her child, not comparable to anything else.

We're not saying anything about children.

[Ostroeuropa]

If you're going to be blatantly spiteful of children, please do the same.

I'm not. There are no children being discussed.

He propably considers, through a quite weird type of logic, that fetuses are children, thus he is unable to understand why we care more for the rights of the mother rather than the life of the fetus.[/quote]

I think that fetuses are people. Or consider it such a moot point that i'm willing to just say "Yeh sure, whatever, they're people."
I don't care more about the rights of the mother.
I care about rights.

Like I said, if the kid wants to claw it's way out of her Womb aliens style in self-defence to prevent the abortion, i'll defend the kid too.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

How can a woman and a clump of replicating cells residing within her body without her consent have a relationship that is in any way comparable to that of a mother and a child?

It is not a clump of cells, it is a human organism completely unique from any other in the world.

They're really not.

[Jamzmania]

There are unique, developing human organisms, though.

Since when organisms should have rights for being organisms?

A human organism, aka a human.