NATION

PASSWORD

Abortion: Humane or not?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Abortion Humane or not?

Should be legalized and is humane
229
33%
Abortion kills innocent babies and should be stopped!
150
22%
What's abortion?
12
2%
Abortion depend on the circumstance
160
23%
It's the woman's choice
143
21%
 
Total votes : 694

User avatar
Mashalgd
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 47
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Abortion: Humane or not?

Postby Mashalgd » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:40 am

I personally believe abortion should not be used no matter the situation. Abortion is essentially killing a baby, while some say it's the woman's choice if she has intercourse and becomes pregnant, it's obviously the woman's fault. That's just my opinion, what's yours?

:-)
New Republica :-D

User avatar
Liverte
Attaché
 
Posts: 70
Founded: Nov 08, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Liverte » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:42 am

Mashalgd wrote:I personally believe abortion should not be used no matter the situation. Abortion is essentially killing a baby, while some say it's the woman's choice if she has intercourse and becomes pregnant, it's obviously the woman's fault. That's just my opinion, what's yours?

:-)
New Republica :-D

I agree.
Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.23
83% Republican Party
80% Conservative Party
75% Constitution Party
67% Libertarian Party
27% Democratic Party
23% Green Party
13% Socialist Party
Pro: Life, Lower Taxes, Republican Party, Roman Catholic Church, Conservatism, US Interventionism, Capitalism, Deficit Reduction, 1992 Clinton, 1976 Carter, Nixon, Federalism, Republicanism, Family Values
Anti: Abortion, Death Penalty, Euthanasia, Higher Taxes, Democratic Party, Atheism, Leftism, Non-Internationalism, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Totalitarianism, $18 Trillion Debt, 2014 Clinton, 2014 Carter, Obama, Direct Democracy, Moral Collapse, Same-Sex so called "Marriage"

User avatar
Scyobayrynn
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1569
Founded: Mar 16, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Scyobayrynn » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:43 am

http://youtu.be/4F4qzPbcFiA


Its a choice.
Its not humane.
This thread feels very wrong to me.
The Gay
Atheist or Agnostic
Muath al-Kaseasbeh Jordanian hero, Muslim martyr.

User avatar
Degenerate Heart of HetRio
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10600
Founded: Feb 12, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:50 am

People like to confuse babies with blobs of cells.

Blobs of cells are not people - thus they don't have rights - and not entitled to occupy the living space of non-consenting people - thus can be removed at will, doesn't matter the consequences.
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

User avatar
Alyakia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18422
Founded: Jul 12, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alyakia » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:51 am

Mashalgd wrote:I personally believe abortion should not be used no matter the situation. Abortion is essentially killing a baby, while some say it's the woman's choice if she has intercourse and becomes pregnant, it's obviously the woman's fault. That's just my opinion, what's yours?

:-)
New Republica :-D


rape
pro: good
anti: bad

The UK and EU are Better Together

"Margaret Thatcher showed the world that women are not too soft or the weaker sex, and can be as heartless, horrible, and amoral as any male politician."

User avatar
Herrebrugh
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15206
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Herrebrugh » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:52 am

Alyakia wrote:
Mashalgd wrote:I personally believe abortion should not be used no matter the situation. Abortion is essentially killing a baby, while some say it's the woman's choice if she has intercourse and becomes pregnant, it's obviously the woman's fault. That's just my opinion, what's yours?

:-)
New Republica :-D


rape


This

<:'D
Uyt naem Zijner Majeſteyt Jozef III, bij de gratie Godts, Koningh der Herrebrugheylanden, Prins van Rheda, Heer van Jozefslandt, enz. enz. enz.
Im Namen Seiner Majeſtät Joſeph III., von Gottes Gnaden König der Herrenbrückinſeln, Prinz von Rheda, Herr von Josephsland etc. etc. etc.


The Factbook of the Kingdom of the Herrebrugh Islands
Where the Website-Style Factbook Originated!

User avatar
Teemant
Senator
 
Posts: 4130
Founded: Oct 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Teemant » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:53 am

This is one topic that I've never had opinion on because I'm not sure about this. I obviously think that it would be best to avoid abortion if possible because it can damage woman having abortion.
Eesti
Latvija
Lietuva
Polska

User avatar
Scyobayrynn
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1569
Founded: Mar 16, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Scyobayrynn » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:56 am

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:People like to confuse babies with blobs of cells.

Blobs of cells are not people - thus they don't have rights - and not entitled to occupy the living space of non-consenting people - thus can be removed at will, doesn't matter the consequences.

As someone who is at once anti-abortion personally and pro-choice politically I have always found this the one argument that made me want to rethink my position.

This argument is literally a Pro-abortion argument, which is disturbing. To me.
The Gay
Atheist or Agnostic
Muath al-Kaseasbeh Jordanian hero, Muslim martyr.

User avatar
New States o America
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Dec 03, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby New States o America » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:56 am

Man, people sure like to get their jimmies rusred over this topic. Just my twork cents, but I don't consider an embryo alive until it can survive out of the womb, so u don't think abortion is wrong up untill that point.

User avatar
Jute
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13735
Founded: Jan 28, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Jute » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:57 am

I hope this isn't trollbaiting or anything, but can't this forum go one week where an abortion thread doesn't pop up? :P
Teemant wrote:This is one topic that I've never had opinion on because I'm not sure about this. I obviously think that it would be best to avoid abortion if possible because it can damage woman having abortion.
Just as the opposite can be true, too. Sometimes the life of the women is in danger after all, and then there are other possible circumstances, too.
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...
The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
"Boys and girls so happy, young and gay / Don't let false worldly joy carry your hearts away."

See the Jutean language! Talk to me about all. Avian air force flag (via) Is Religion Dangerous?

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:57 am

Mashalgd wrote:I personally believe abortion should not be used no matter the situation. Abortion is essentially killing a baby, while some say it's the woman's choice if she has intercourse and becomes pregnant, it's obviously the woman's fault. That's just my opinion, what's yours?



its humane to allow a woman to decide her own reproductive fate. abortion is essentially making that decision. sometimes it is to prevent a greater tragedy. in the end its not any of your business unless you are the one who is pregnant.
whatever

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:58 am

Alyakia wrote:
Mashalgd wrote:I personally believe abortion should not be used no matter the situation. Abortion is essentially killing a baby, while some say it's the woman's choice if she has intercourse and becomes pregnant, it's obviously the woman's fault. That's just my opinion, what's yours?

:-)
New Republica :-D


rape

fetal abnormality

danger to mother
whatever

User avatar
Teemant
Senator
 
Posts: 4130
Founded: Oct 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Teemant » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:58 am

Jute wrote:I hope this isn't trollbaiting or anything, but can't this forum go one week where an abortion thread doesn't pop up? :P
Teemant wrote:This is one topic that I've never had opinion on because I'm not sure about this. I obviously think that it would be best to avoid abortion if possible because it can damage woman having abortion.
Just as the opposite can be true, too. Sometimes the life of the women is in danger after all, and then there are other possible circumstances, too.


Yes. If it dangers pregnant woman then I don't see reason why she can't have abortion. But I think that it is best to avoid doing it if possible.
Eesti
Latvija
Lietuva
Polska

User avatar
Transyl
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1996
Founded: Oct 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Transyl » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:00 pm

Mashalgd wrote:I personally believe abortion should not be used no matter the situation. Abortion is essentially killing a baby, while some say it's the woman's choice if she has intercourse and becomes pregnant, it's obviously the woman's fault. That's just my opinion, what's yours?

:-)
New Republica :-D

What if the woman is brutally raped? Why would anyone want to have that baby, all it would do is remind them of that horrible incident and how disgusting it was. Or what if she was drugged by her own brother and became pregnant, her baby would be an incest baby with defects most likely? Or what if the mothers life is in danger? And so on.
I'm Kitty!
About me
NS stats have no power here. We only use Factbooks!
Main Factbook.

Proud Fascist!
Proud member of the Anti-Democracy League!
Yandere!
Ancient Humans is the love of my life! Touch him and you'll face my wrath!
Creepwood Apple-Loosa and Xanama are my Kawaii Friends! :3

User avatar
The Alma Mater
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25619
Founded: May 23, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:00 pm

Correction:
An early term abortion destroys an empty husk of flesh. A husk without the capacity to feel, think or experience anything.
A late term abortion indeeds kills something with feelings, dreams and thoughts. One can debate on the morality of that.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

User avatar
Jute
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13735
Founded: Jan 28, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Jute » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:00 pm

Teemant wrote:
Jute wrote:I hope this isn't trollbaiting or anything, but can't this forum go one week where an abortion thread doesn't pop up? :P Just as the opposite can be true, too. Sometimes the life of the women is in danger after all, and then there are other possible circumstances, too.


Yes. If it dangers pregnant woman then I don't see reason why she can't have abortion. But I think that it is best to avoid doing it if possible.
Agreed, abortion just because you changed your mind a few weeks before the baby is supposed to be born isn't something I'd like to support much, for example.
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...
The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
"Boys and girls so happy, young and gay / Don't let false worldly joy carry your hearts away."

See the Jutean language! Talk to me about all. Avian air force flag (via) Is Religion Dangerous?

User avatar
Korchayk
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 109
Founded: Nov 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Korchayk » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:02 pm

Well, this will end well. In my opinion, abortion is a right. Whether you disagree with it for religious or personal reasons, it is a right that every women should have access to, even if they don't want to utilise the right.
Royal Prince of Korchayk Seeks Wife
The Korchayki Embassy Program
Korchayki Statistics
Member of the INTERNATIONAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
KORCHAYKI STATE NEWS - Korchayk joins the International Justice System and World Assembly ---  Korchayk leaves the United Monarchist Alliance in protest --- The Korchayki Ministry of Finance has had a bailout package of $10 billion accepted by the Empire of Vecima --- The 'Subversive and Political Dissent Prevention Act' has been passed through the Korchayki Council of Representatives ---

User avatar
Zorbae
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 452
Founded: Mar 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Zorbae » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:07 pm

Killing said child, however developed it is, could result in damage, both physical and mental to the mother, as well as endanger her life. Regardless of whether you believe you are in fact are killing a child, you are preventing it from living. That is death. I do not believe that it is ethically, morally or medically sound.
'Shakespeare is a drunken savage with some imagination whose plays please only in London and Canada' - Voltaire
Name: D A Russell
Nationality: United Kingdom
Residence: Essex, England, UK
Race: White
Religion: Roman Catholic
Gender: Male
Orientation: Straight
Party: Conservative (UK)
European Union: Pro-EU
Political Beliefs: Orange-Book Liberalism,
One-Nation Conservatism, High Tory Conservatism,
Thatcherite Conservatism

I don't 'think' Europe is better than America. I know it is.

Apparently this sig is "too blue".

They call themselves neo-pagans: Odinists, Druids, Osirites. I call them pretenders, false claimants to long-forgotten thrones.

I am in fact a group of monkeys who got bored of typing up Shakespeare
The United Imperial Khaganate of Zorbae

User avatar
Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post-Apocalypse Survivor
 
Posts: 203930
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:07 pm

Abortion is not about being humane or inhumane. It's about choice and how, as a civilized society we must respect the rights a person has to retain reproductive control of their bodies. In this case, the rights a woman has to retain sovreignty over her body.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

User avatar
Alyakia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18422
Founded: Jul 12, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alyakia » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:08 pm

Zorbae wrote:Killing said child, however developed it is, could result in damage, both physical and mental to the mother, as well as endanger her life. Regardless of whether you believe you are in fact are killing a child, you are preventing it from living. That is death. I do not believe that it is ethically, morally or medically sound.


shit, having the child however developed it is could result in damage, both physical and mental to the mother, as well as endanger her life.
pro: good
anti: bad

The UK and EU are Better Together

"Margaret Thatcher showed the world that women are not too soft or the weaker sex, and can be as heartless, horrible, and amoral as any male politician."

User avatar
Zorbae
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 452
Founded: Mar 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Zorbae » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:09 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Abortion is not about being humane or inhumane. It's about choice and how, as a civilized society we must respect the rights a person has to retain reproductive control of their bodies. In this case, the rights a woman has to retain sovreignty over her body.


The task of a civilized society is to preserve the rights of all, man and woman, child and adult, born and unborn.
'Shakespeare is a drunken savage with some imagination whose plays please only in London and Canada' - Voltaire
Name: D A Russell
Nationality: United Kingdom
Residence: Essex, England, UK
Race: White
Religion: Roman Catholic
Gender: Male
Orientation: Straight
Party: Conservative (UK)
European Union: Pro-EU
Political Beliefs: Orange-Book Liberalism,
One-Nation Conservatism, High Tory Conservatism,
Thatcherite Conservatism

I don't 'think' Europe is better than America. I know it is.

Apparently this sig is "too blue".

They call themselves neo-pagans: Odinists, Druids, Osirites. I call them pretenders, false claimants to long-forgotten thrones.

I am in fact a group of monkeys who got bored of typing up Shakespeare
The United Imperial Khaganate of Zorbae

User avatar
Soviet Haaregrad
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16703
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:09 pm

Mashalgd wrote:I personally believe abortion should not be used no matter the situation. Abortion is essentially killing a baby, while some say it's the woman's choice if she has intercourse and becomes pregnant, it's obviously the woman's fault. That's just my opinion, what's yours?

:-)
New Republica :-D


I agree loose women need to be punished with unwanted pregnancies, after all, how will they ever come to understand that their bodies exist for the benefit of mankind and the state, and not for their own needs and interests? Self-ownership is such a quaint notion, what next, they'll expect to be paid fairly for work?
RP Population: 1760//76 million//1920 104 million//1960 209 million//1992 238 million
81% Economic Leftist, 56% Anarchist, 79% Anti-Militarist, 89% Socio-Cultural Liberal, 73% Civil Libertarian
Privatization of collectively owned property is theft.
The Confederacy of Independent Socialist Republics
FACTBOOK
ART


There are no gods and no one is a prophet.

User avatar
Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post-Apocalypse Survivor
 
Posts: 203930
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:10 pm

Zorbae wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Abortion is not about being humane or inhumane. It's about choice and how, as a civilized society we must respect the rights a person has to retain reproductive control of their bodies. In this case, the rights a woman has to retain sovreignty over her body.


The task of a civilized society is to preserve the rights of all, man and woman, child and adult, born and unborn.


Fetus =/= child. So we're protecting the ones who count.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

User avatar
The Alma Mater
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25619
Founded: May 23, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:12 pm

Zorbae wrote:Killing said child, however developed it is, could result in damage, both physical and mental to the mother, as well as endanger her life. Regardless of whether you believe you are in fact are killing a child, you are preventing it from living. That is death. I do not believe that it is ethically, morally or medically sound.


Preventing something from coming alive is not death, but nonexistence. Me not impregnating your sister does not kill our potential child - it prevents it from existing.

The primary debate people often have about abortion is when the fetus stops being a clump of cells and becomes a person. Some say immediately after conception. Some say when it acquires the capacity to experience things; to dream and feel. And some say not before it is born.

The secondary debate is which right weighs heavier: the mothers right to decide what to do with her own body, or the fetus supposed right to be allowed to become a baby.
Or, if you are a Biblical literalist - the husbands right to determine how much value to ascribe to the unborn child; in which case both the rights of the fetus and the woman are considered non-existent.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

User avatar
The Alma Mater
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25619
Founded: May 23, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:13 pm

Zorbae wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Abortion is not about being humane or inhumane. It's about choice and how, as a civilized society we must respect the rights a person has to retain reproductive control of their bodies. In this case, the rights a woman has to retain sovreignty over her body.


The task of a civilized society is to preserve the rights of all, man and woman, child and adult, born and unborn.


Philosophically, it is pretty hard to preserve the rights of potential persons.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Benuty, Ineva, Keltionialang, Shrillland

Advertisement

Remove ads