Are humans animals? Do animals have souls?

[The United Federations of Planets]

What is a soul?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzxkoAFTf-4
Here .

thats the one

[Neutraligon]

What is a soul?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzxkoAFTf-4
Here .

No that's souless...now what's a soul?

[-Ebola-]

As for consciousness, the closest thing to "souls" that really exist, most animals don't have it (remember, most animals aren't mammals or even birds, but insects and spiders), and it's being debated to which extend the "upper animals" (like apes, dolphins, elephants, ...) do have some amount of it.

What makes you so sure that insects are not conscious?

[-Ebola-]

Also humans are aware of our own mortality.

Other species are too.

[Benuty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzxkoAFTf-4
Here .

No that's souless...now what's a soul?

Geez, and here I thought I had bad feelings toward my mother.

[Neutraligon]

No that's souless...now what's a soul?

Geez, and here I thought I had bad feelings toward my mother.

My mom doesn't do...a few of those things

[Warpspace]

This is nonsensical. There aren't levels of self awareness. You either have it or you do not.

A dolphin may recognize itself in the mirror. But there is no dolphin shakespeare. No other animal has achieved anything close to what we have in terms of science and creativity.

Also humans are aware of our own mortality.

How the hell do you know that Dolphins don't keep short oral traditions? They do have a definite language, and we certainly don't speak it.

And of bloody course we've achieved more then Dolphins. WE. HAVE. HANDS. You know, those things that gave us a massive evolutionary advantage against everything when coupled with our fine motor skills, brain power, and a sharpened stone?

Of course Dolphins haven't come close to our level of advancement, they lack any ability to carefully manipulate objects like an ape. They also can't create fire thanks to their home environment.

Seriously though, you're hilariously biased if you're setting the bar for recognizing a species as advanced as us by being us. There were other hominids of our development- we either assimilated them via breeding or they simply died off on their own fault. But dolphins are highly unlikely to ever develop to a state similar to ours simply given their environment and poor draw in the lottery. If you're going to place bets on the next hominid-like species to replace us, it's either other apes (if they survive), birds, or octopi.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Why, it is when NSG is most boring? Same old shit every year, nothing original, nothing interesting...

It's still a fresh change to the forum's usual seriousness.

After 14 years or so here, to me it is about as fresh as Arthur Askey's comedy.

[-Ebola-]

A dolphin may recognize itself in the mirror. But there is no dolphin shakespeare. No other animal has achieved anything close to what we have in terms of science and creativity.

Also humans are aware of our own mortality.

How the hell do you know that Dolphins don't keep short oral traditions? They do have a definite language, and we certainly don't speak it.

And of bloody course we've achieved more then Dolphins. WE. HAVE. HANDS. You know, those things that gave us a massive evolutionary advantage against everything when coupled with our fine motor skills, brain power, and a sharpened stone?

Of course Dolphins haven't come close to our level of advancement, they lack any ability to carefully manipulate objects like an ape. They also can't create fire thanks to their home environment.

Seriously though, you're hilariously biased if you're setting the bar for recognizing a species as advanced as us by being us. There were other hominids of our development- we either assimilated them via breeding or they simply died off on their own fault. But dolphins are highly unlikely to ever develop to a state similar to ours simply given their environment and poor draw in the lottery. If you're going to place bets on the next hominid-like species to replace us, it's either other apes (if they survive), birds, or octopi.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that humans have a "massive evolutionary advantage against everything." Humans have only existed for a short time, and you have a small population relative to many other species. Your brains are a liability as much as an advantage. They take so long to develop, and children are dependent on their parents for a long time because of it. It prevents humans from breeding like bacteria. (Is there a reason you usually say "breeding like rabbits"? I never thought of rabbits as breeding especially fast...)

[Risottia]

As for consciousness, the closest thing to "souls" that really exist, most animals don't have it (remember, most animals aren't mammals or even birds, but insects and spiders), and it's being debated to which extend the "upper animals" (like apes, dolphins, elephants, ...) do have some amount of it.

What makes you so sure that insects are not conscious?

If we define "conscious" as "self-conscious" (that is, able to define itself as an individual, opposed to what is "other" - the environment, other individuals), the mirror test is a good hint. We can be rather sure that those who pass the mirror test are self-conscious. Of course, this is not the ultimate test (see the Criticism section)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

[Warpspace]

How the hell do you know that Dolphins don't keep short oral traditions? They do have a definite language, and we certainly don't speak it.

And of bloody course we've achieved more then Dolphins. WE. HAVE. HANDS. You know, those things that gave us a massive evolutionary advantage against everything when coupled with our fine motor skills, brain power, and a sharpened stone?

Of course Dolphins haven't come close to our level of advancement, they lack any ability to carefully manipulate objects like an ape. They also can't create fire thanks to their home environment.

Seriously though, you're hilariously biased if you're setting the bar for recognizing a species as advanced as us by being us. There were other hominids of our development- we either assimilated them via breeding or they simply died off on their own fault. But dolphins are highly unlikely to ever develop to a state similar to ours simply given their environment and poor draw in the lottery. If you're going to place bets on the next hominid-like species to replace us, it's either other apes (if they survive), birds, or octopi.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that humans have a "massive evolutionary advantage against everything." Humans have only existed for a short time, and you have a small population relative to many other species. Your brains are a liability as much as an advantage. They take so long to develop, and children are dependent on their parents for a long time because of it. It prevents humans from breeding like bacteria. (Is there a reason you usually say "breeding like rabbits"? I never thought of rabbits as breeding especially fast...)

1) Your joke was amusing for a day. The IC forums are in the upper regions of the forums, go there. Otherwise, this is OOC. Cut the act.

2) Bacteria aren't animals and barely qualify as life.

3) Humans are the pinnacle of evolution considering we possess the ability to completely demolish the planet to such a degree that it might never even recover. The power we wield via our technology has never been seen prior in the entire history of Earth, potentially the universe if there is no other sentient alien race similar to us on some level. Even now we are doing incredibly drastic things, such as forcibly programming viruses to target cancer cells or going to space.

[Risottia]

I'm not sure where you get the idea that humans have a "massive evolutionary advantage against everything."

Against everything, no. Humans are rather the apex predators, though, as long as megafauna is concerned.

If anything, the physical vulnerability of humans, coupled with the erect station and better manipulation skills, has forced humans to rely primarily on intelligence and sociality - which so far has been proven to be extremely useful, and quite the innovation. Other apes are following on the same path.

[Dalcaria]

Are humans animals? Well we're living beings who function in much the same way animals do, so I'd say that objectively speaking, yes we are, in a sense. Even as a Christian, I recognize the Bible doesn't really define us as "animals" or "something superior to animals". Certainly we have higher mental capacities than they do, but we still function essentially the same.

Do animals have souls? I don't think the Bible ever addressed that, so frankly, I can't comment yes or no. My best response would be to say that only God really knows that by the sounds of it. Do humans have souls? Not really sure. I mean, obviously the Bible implies we move on to another life after death, but how would we define this whole thing? Is it really our soul that moves on? I mean, it's the most logical assumption from that standpoint, but I don't recall what the Bible says specifically about "souls". Now, scientifically speaking, do we have souls? No way to really determine that, as a soul isn't something that is implied to be physical (in all cases at least, though some have claimed it to be physical I'm sure), so really we can't say for sure. Thus far, science hasn't progressed beyond the point of death, so you could argue anything exists really, as long as it isn't supposed to be physically tangible. Does that mean it's real? Well obviously not, but it's not really something you can say isn't real either, no matter how ridiculous it is. You can't really say something is real or not until you are able to prove it's existence physically, so until you do that, all you've got are your beliefs really.

[-Ebola-]

I'm not sure where you get the idea that humans have a "massive evolutionary advantage against everything." Humans have only existed for a short time, and you have a small population relative to many other species. Your brains are a liability as much as an advantage. They take so long to develop, and children are dependent on their parents for a long time because of it. It prevents humans from breeding like bacteria. (Is there a reason you usually say "breeding like rabbits"? I never thought of rabbits as breeding especially fast...)

1) Your joke was amusing for a day. The IC forums are in the upper regions of the forums, go there. Otherwise, this is OOC. Cut the act.

Just because filoviridae do not usually have internet access doesn't mean we aren't real.

2) Bacteria aren't animals and barely qualify as life.

You didn't specify "against other animals."

3) Humans are the pinnacle of evolution considering we possess the ability to completely demolish the planet to such a degree that it might never even recover. The power we wield via our technology has never been seen prior in the entire history of Earth, potentially the universe if there is no other sentient alien race similar to us on some level. Even now we are doing incredibly drastic things, such as forcibly programming viruses to target cancer cells or going to space.

I don't think humans using current day technology could wipe out all other life. You forget how far removed from you the ocean floors are, how densely populated the world is with viruses and bacteria, and how adaptable microorganisms are.

The fact that your moral objections to slavery went out the window as soon as you got your hands on some viruses and lab equipment does not mean you are all-powerful.

[Risottia]

The fact that your moral objections to slavery went out the window as soon as you got your hands on some viruses and lab equipment does not mean you are all-powerful.

Actually, much earlier.
Humans are enslaving other species since some 10000-15000 years ago at least.
Ants are doing it since much, much earlier.

[-Ebola-]

The fact that your moral objections to slavery went out the window as soon as you got your hands on some viruses and lab equipment does not mean you are all-powerful.

Actually, much earlier.
Humans are enslaving other species since some 10000-15000 years ago at least.
Ants are doing it since much, much earlier.

That was before people developed a moral objection to slavery in the first place.

[Kilobugya]

As for consciousness, the closest thing to "souls" that really exist, most animals don't have it (remember, most animals aren't mammals or even birds, but insects and spiders), and it's being debated to which extend the "upper animals" (like apes, dolphins, elephants, ...) do have some amount of it.

What makes you so sure that insects are not conscious?

Two reasons : first, they don't exhibit the slightest evidence of being anywhere close to being conscious, and second, we have a pretty good broad understanding on how consciousness works (even if we still don't understand all the fine details) and we know the cognitive architecture of insects is completely unable to contain that complicated process.

[Risottia]

Actually, much earlier.
Humans are enslaving other species since some 10000-15000 years ago at least.
Ants are doing it since much, much earlier.

That was before people developed a moral objection to slavery in the first place.

People, as a rule of thumb, have a moral objection to the slavery of other people, because only people are subjects of rights.
Humans don't consider non-humans to be people.

[Dyakovo]

Humans are animals that have achieved sapience. We are self aware and thus have different souls than other animals.

When a human dies their soul is recycled and reincarnated into a new sapient creature (maybe human) after having its memory wiped. There is a celestial soul bank where all sapient souls are stored and wiped before being sent to a new creature being born anywhere in the universe. More souls can be created if there is a population growth amongst the sapients. If there is a decline than souls can be merged or kept in storage indefinitely. _{[citation needed]}

Other animals simply reincarnate souls amongst themselves.

And your evidence for this is?

[Pharthan]

How the hell do you know that Dolphins don't keep short oral traditions? They do have a definite language, and we certainly don't speak it.

And of bloody course we've achieved more then Dolphins. WE. HAVE. HANDS. You know, those things that gave us a massive evolutionary advantage against everything when coupled with our fine motor skills, brain power, and a sharpened stone?

Of course Dolphins haven't come close to our level of advancement, they lack any ability to carefully manipulate objects like an ape. They also can't create fire thanks to their home environment.

Seriously though, you're hilariously biased if you're setting the bar for recognizing a species as advanced as us by being us. There were other hominids of our development- we either assimilated them via breeding or they simply died off on their own fault. But dolphins are highly unlikely to ever develop to a state similar to ours simply given their environment and poor draw in the lottery. If you're going to place bets on the next hominid-like species to replace us, it's either other apes (if they survive), birds, or octopi.

While I do support the idea of not judging intelligence of a species based on human-ideals, dolphins have been proven "less intelligent" and "less-conscious" than humans by experiments designed for them; i.e. comparable puzzle-solving and pattern-recognition tests show that crows and parakeets are still smarter than both dolphins and chimps.

[Cyeal]

Proof?

If that's the logic you're using, prove that there isn't an invisible unicorn flying through the sky above you.

Isn't?

*looks through 360 degree stereoscopic*

Nope.

[Nervium]

If cats have souls, why do they try and steal human souls?

[Jonkurlandia]

Are humans animals?
yes
Do animals have souls?
define 'souls'

[New Socialist South Africa]

Humans are animals, obviously.

There is no evidence that either humans or non-human animals have souls, in the metaphysical / religious sense, and as such I lack belief that they do. I will start believing that when I am presented with convincing evidence of that.

However, both humans and non-human animals have "souls" in the Aristotelian sense, here being “the actuality of a body that has life”, which in modern terms estentially just means they are alive. This is consistent with evidence.

[New Socialist South Africa]

If that's the logic you're using, prove that there isn't an invisible unicorn flying through the sky above you.

Isn't?

*looks through 360 degree stereoscopic*

Nope.

Well you aren't going to be able to see it if it is invisible now are you?

Its like how Christians don't believe in Vishnu, but not because they can prove beyond all doubt that he or any version of him doesn't exist, but rather because there just is no evidence for his existence or the existence of any version of him.