Ban on atheism

[Sanctissima]

Atheism should be banned. We're all better off without it.

List of famous atheists
Hitler
Kim-Jong Un
Mao
Fidel Castro
Stalin
Che Guevara
Obama
Pol Pot

Hitler was Catholic, Obama's a Protestant Christian, and Kim-Jong Un believes he's God.

[Archeuland and Baughistan]

No one gives a shit what Thomas Jefferson thinks. The 14th Amendment proves you're wrong. Actually read the Constitution.

The secularists seem to care a great deal what Jefferson thinks when they bring up the Treaty of Tripoli or his letter to the Danbury Baptists.

On that note, the Treaty of Tripoli was modified illegally after it had been passed by Congress. The bit about 'the United States is not founded on the Christian religion' was added in by an ambassador, and was not the original words of Congress. That means the whole Treaty of Tripoli argument is a sham.

As for the letter to the Danbury Baptists, look no further than my post above to delineate what Jefferson actually said. He supported state's rights to have religion as they please, but opposed a national religion, which, as they had observed in Europe, led to corruption.

[Lost heros]

The First Amendment - in this nation - restricts the federal government alone. There can be no federal ban on atheism, but states are free to do as they please, Incorporation Clause having no real effect other than a recognition on the states' part that the federal government cannot establish a national religion. States are free to be as theocratic or secularist as they and their people please.

So states can be 1984-esque and ban thoughtcrimes, but only the federal government can't. Personally, I like a mandated protection of all people's liberties, but it seems you want to create an authoritarian theocratic dictatorship.

[Mavorpen]

This is where you apply the observational and historical science. Because science - which is really all forms of knowledge - applies to history as well, we use observational science to look at various sources to make authoritative statements about the past.

I can understand that Jefferson was a Deist, but he was very much a follower of Christ to the best of my knowledge, and believed in state's rights.

Here are some quotes by Jefferson:



As Jefferson wrote to Samuel Miller on January 23, 1808:

Our founding fathers weren't perfect.

Secularism triumphs what a single man thinks.

That's not the problem. The problem is that we have an Amendment to the Constitution that was made after Jefferson died that makes him wrong today even IF he was right then.

[Liriena]

Well, from what I've learned over the past couple of years as a student of social sciences, I have come to believe that no human being has ever truly had individual free will, because free will cannot exist in our Universe. Our thoughts, emotions and actions are conditioned by our context, our experiences, our biology, our subconscious, and the society we live in. When we are faced with a choice between two options, we are already preconditioned towards choosing one of them, because everything in our lives thus far has led towards it.

If I choose to, for example, murder an innocent person, it is a decision I made because of my brain chemistry, the morals I learned throughout my life, and the potential consequences I can envision from where I'm standing. I may ultimately commit the murder because of an underlying neurological disorder, coupled with moral values that I interpretate in a way that excuse it, and believing that there won't be any consequences, based on who the victim is and where I'm committing the crime.

What is your definition of free will?

In the context of the current discussion? I'd define free will as the alleged human capacity to make truly free and individual moral decisions, in which the only thing affecting our decision would be the allegedly objective morality of Christianity, with no pre-existing conditions leading up to our minds choosing one in particular.

In those terms, I say free will does not exist in the sense that no person is entirely responsible of their actions, thoughts or emotions, and thus it cannot be honestly argued that the existence of evil in our world is merely a matter of a deity granting humans "free will", and humans knowingly and freely choosing to do evil.

[Elwher]

Atheism is just as much a faith based viewpoint as is theism; both are postulating a position which cannot be proved. A lack of evidence of the existence of God or Gods is not evidence of a lack of the existence of God or Gods. If you want a logically justifiable position, only the agnostic qualifies (although that is much less emotionally satisfying than either of the two extreme positions and much less fun to argue as well).

Wrong. Atheism requires no faith.

If it is not based on an unprovable belief, how can you prove there is no God? If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

[Bolrieg]

Look at the facts, obviously evolution is fake because if it was real we could fly like planes. Also, Atheism is bad, not only for people's salvation but also their health. Over 70% of all jail inmates are non-christian, and 82% of all people who have been sentenced to death didn't believe in God. Not only does Atheism promote crime, but also terrorism.

Notable Atheists:

Stalin
Saddam Hussein
Hitler
Obama
Mao Zedong
Pol-Pot

Notable Christians

George W. Bush
Gandhi
George Washington
Benjamin Franklin
Marilyn Monroe
9/11 Volenteers


I think it's obvious, atheism should be illegal!

You are aware that Hitler and Saddam were theist right and Franklin was agnostic? Oh and George Bush was the most hated US president to date right?

[New Socialist South Africa]

Atheism should be banned. We're all better off without it.

List of famous atheists
Hitler
Kim-Jong Un
Mao
Fidel Castro
Stalin
Che Guevara
Obama
Pol Pot

Fixed that for you. Hitler was an occultist who hated Atheists and spoke about destroying atheism.
Obama isn't an atheist, he is a Satanist-Muslim, obviously. Just joking he is a Christian. Save your bullshit for the tinfoil hat people.

As for the rest, sure, but none of them killed because they were atheists, they killed because they were power obsessed authoritarian dictators.

I could make a list of racist Christians, but that doesn't mean they are racist because they are Christian or that all Christians are racist.

[Mavorpen]

No one gives a shit what Thomas Jefferson thinks. The 14th Amendment proves you're wrong. Actually read the Constitution.

The secularists seem to care a great deal what Jefferson thinks when they bring up the Treaty of Tripoli or his letter to the Danbury Baptists.

On that note, the Treaty of Tripoli was modified illegally after it had been passed by Congress. The bit about 'the United States is not founded on the Christian religion' was added in by an ambassador, and was not the original words of Congress. That means the whole Treaty of Tripoli argument is a sham.

As for the letter to the Danbury Baptists, look no further than my post above to delineate what Jefferson actually said. He supported state's rights to have religion as they please, but opposed a national religion, which, as they had observed in Europe, led to corruption.

No one gives a rat's ass about your conspiracy theories. The 14th Amendment proves you and Jefferson wrong. Get over it.

[Skinia]

Wrong. Atheism requires no faith.

If it is not based on an unprovable belief, how can you prove there is no God? If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

The lack of a belief is directly opposite to a belief.

[Pandeeria]

No one gives a shit what Thomas Jefferson thinks. The 14th Amendment proves you're wrong. Actually read the Constitution.

The secularists seem to care a great deal what Jefferson thinks when they bring up the Treaty of Tripoli or his letter to the Danbury Baptists.

On that note, the Treaty of Tripoli was modified illegally after it had been passed by Congress. The bit about 'the United States is not founded on the Christian religion' was added in by an ambassador, and was not the original words of Congress. That means the whole Treaty of Tripoli argument is a sham.

As for the letter to the Danbury Baptists, look no further than my post above to delineate what Jefferson actually said. He supported state's rights to have religion as they please, but opposed a national religion, which, as they had observed in Europe, led to corruption.

This is what was originally presented to Congress:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli#/image/File:Treaty_of_Tripoli_as_communicated_to_Congress_1797.png

Look at Article 11

[Aelex]

Our founding fathers weren't perfect.

Secularism triumphs what a single man thinks.[/quote]

Indeed. But U.S.A aren't secularist enough. You should have done as us in 1905...

[Lost heros]

Wrong. Atheism requires no faith.

If it is not based on an unprovable belief, how can you prove there is no God? If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

Atheists, typically, take the position of the null hypothesis, which means that until evidence is provided that supports the existence of a god, we will assume he doesn't.

[The Kokyuna Clan]

If it is not based on an unprovable belief, how can you prove there is no God? If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

how can you prove there is no God?

I don't need to because there's no evidence proving the existence of any deity other than books written the desert.

If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

Yeah, Christians fail to prove God's real all the time, so that works there.

[Archeuland and Baughistan]

Jefferson might have seen Jesus as a great moral leader and guru, he doesn't seem to have worshipped him as his god though. Not everyone who venerates Jesus is a Christian after all (just ask the Muslims...).

Jefferson professed to be a Christian in this writing, however:

"A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian; that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus".

Of course it can be interpreted many ways, but Jefferson did not seem to be a devout agnostic. If he was opposed to state's rights of religion, or religion in general, I doubt that he would have approved of the Third Article of the Northwest Ordinance:

"Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall be forever encouraged."

[Lunalia]

Look at the facts, obviously evolution is fake because if it was real we could fly like planes. Also, Atheism is bad, not only for people's salvation but also their health. Over 70% of all jail inmates are non-christian, and 82% of all people who have been sentenced to death didn't believe in God. Not only does Atheism promote crime, but also terrorism.

Notable Atheists:

Stalin
Saddam Hussein
Hitler
Obama
Mao Zedong
Pol-Pot

Notable Christians

George W. Bush
Gandhi
George Washington
Benjamin Franklin
Marilyn Monroe
9/11 Volenteers


I think it's obvious, atheism should be illegal!

You are aware that Hitler and Saddam were theist right and Franklin was agnostic? Oh and George Bush was the most hated US president to date right?

Also that there were Muslim 9/11 volunteers. And atheist volunteers. It wasn't just Christians.

[Bobpire]

Atheism should be banned. We're all better off without it.

List of famous atheists
Hitler
Kim-Jong Un
Mao
Fidel Castro
Stalin
Che Guevara
Obama
Pol Pot

Hitler=Christian
Kim-Jong un= Atheist
Mao= Atheist
Castro= Secular or christian
Stalin= Christian
Che Guevara= Atheist
Obama= Christian
Pol Pot= Atheist

Bad Christians:
Gilles de Rais
John XII
Pope Urban II
Pope Innocent III
Adolf Hitler
Ivon the Horrible
Etc.

[Martean]

Wrong. Atheism requires no faith.

If it is not based on an unprovable belief, how can you prove there is no God? If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

YOU have to prove the existance of god, not the other way round.

Imagine now I claim there is a teapot floating between The Earth and Mars, how could you prove it's unexistance?

[New Socialist South Africa]

Wrong. Atheism requires no faith.

If it is not based on an unprovable belief, how can you prove there is no God? If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

Do you believe in Vishnu or not?

[Imsogone]

God and religion aren't the same thing. Religion was invented by people, initially as a means of knowing the unknowable, but, ultimately it became a means by which a few could control many. Religion, like most man-made tools, is not inherently evil, but has great potential for evil (as has been demonstrated throughout history). The concept of God was tossed out of religion when the first religious leader realized that he could use it to get sex and resources.

Whether a deity exists or not is unprovable. Whether someone believes or not is irrelevant and attempting to legally force a pretense of belief is hypocritical.

[Patrimonium Petri]

A prime minster of Canada, one that went by the name of Diefenbaker, did say that one cannot deny an individual the right to think as he will. This is my opinion as well.

[Scomagia]

Look at the facts, obviously evolution is fake because if it was real we could fly like planes. Also, Atheism is bad, not only for people's salvation but also their health. Over 70% of all jail inmates are non-christian, and 82% of all people who have been sentenced to death didn't believe in God. Not only does Atheism promote crime, but also terrorism.

Notable Atheists:

Stalin
Saddam Hussein
Hitler
Obama
Mao Zedong
Pol-Pot

Notable Christians

George W. Bush
Gandhi
George Washington
Benjamin Franklin
Marilyn Monroe
9/11 Volenteers


I think it's obvious, atheism should be illegal!

You are aware that Hitler and Saddam were theist right and Franklin was agnostic? Oh and George Bush was the most hated US president to date right?

How did you miss the bolded? Gandhi, a Christian?

[Dyakovo]

Wrong. Atheism requires no faith.

If it is not based on an unprovable belief, how can you prove there is no God? If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

I don't need to prove there is no "god", seeing as I'm not making that claim.

[Lunalia]

Jefferson might have seen Jesus as a great moral leader and guru, he doesn't seem to have worshipped him as his god though. Not everyone who venerates Jesus is a Christian after all (just ask the Muslims...).

Jefferson professed to be a Christian in this writing, however:

"A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian; that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus".

Of course it can be interpreted many ways, but Jefferson did not seem to be a devout agnostic. If he was opposed to state's rights of religion, or religion in general, I doubt that he would have approved of the Third Article of the Northwest Ordinance:

"Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall be forever encouraged."

Jefferson... lived in a time where deists did not exist as an entity with a name. The only question of religion was whether you were Jewish, or Muslim, or what flavor of Christianity you were. But Jefferson's writings, and the writings of other founding fathers, indicate that Jefferson felt the whole awe of seeing some divine in the natural world things that generally indicates deism now. Just because he said he was a Christian then, doesn't mean that he actually was... just that Christianity was the closest thing he could use to express deist beliefs then.

[Elwher]

If it is not based on an unprovable belief, how can you prove there is no God? If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

The lack of a belief is directly opposite to a belief.

The lack of a belief is the position of the agnostic, that there is no proof of the existence of God. The atheist, however,. has a belief that there is no God. The former says I do not know, a non-faith based stand; the latter says I know but cannot prove, which is faith.