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No Indictment for Eric Garner's Killer

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Should there have been a trial?

Yes
168
86%
No
27
14%
 
Total votes : 195

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The United States of North Amerigo
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Founded: Apr 19, 2014
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Postby The United States of North Amerigo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:07 pm

Mirchusko wrote:
The United States of North Amerigo wrote:Bla bla blah this method has been banned, no, that was a headlock, not a chokehold. Although they look very very similar.


Forgive me, but I think I'll take the opinion of a qualified medical expert over yours, unless you have a credible source to back your claim.

http://nypost.com/2014/08/14/not-a-chok ... er-arrest/
Not a chokehold.
Amerigo.
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Mirchusko
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Postby Mirchusko » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:07 pm

The United States of North Amerigo wrote:
Scomagia wrote:They deliberately performed a potentially lethal maneuver that they have been instructed not to use for almost twenty years.

Headlock, not chokehold.

Please explain how you know that was not a chokehold.

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The United States of North Amerigo
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Postby The United States of North Amerigo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:07 pm

Occupied Deutschland wrote:
The United States of North Amerigo wrote:Headlock, not chokehold.

Headlocks don't choke people to death.

The guy was OBESE AND HAD ASTHMA! People with asthma can die from very simple things, like running for example, or rapid changes in temperature.
Amerigo.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:07 pm

Geilinor wrote:
The United States of North Amerigo wrote:Anyways, if you're resisting arrest, then you're giving the officer a reason to put you in a headlock. Not to mention Eric Garner had asthma and that's probably what killed him. I doubt the officer knew he had asthma either.

The chokehold plus asthma plus a heart attack killed him. The chokehold triggered the symptoms.

Exactly. Had a TASER been used, instead, there's a good chance that he'd still be alive, even with his heart condition.
Insert trite farewell here

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Seangoli
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Postby Seangoli » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:08 pm

The United States of North Amerigo wrote:
Scomagia wrote:They are taught basic hand to hand combat.

The only "hand to hand combat" NYPD are taught, are how to take down someone, and what is demonstrated in the video is a method.


Let me be clear about something: My father was in law enforcement, his father was in law enforcement, my uncle is currently working in law enforcement.

One of the things that my father specifically scolded me for when I was younger was using a choke hold on my brother, as it can be lethal. This was two decades ago. He also flat out fired several of his deputies for using this (And similar) methods, even though nobody was severely harmed. The NYPD further has barred officers from using chokeholds for nearly two decades as they are considered dangerous even to healthy adults. Choke holds are completely inappropriate for use by law enforcement, due to it being very easy to kill somebody unintentionally.

The role of a police officer is not to subdue a suspect at all costs. It is to use necessary and reasonable force to do so. In almost all jurisdictions in the modern day, utilizing a choke hold is not considered reasonable, and in many (Including New York CIty), it is specifically laid out as being completely inappropriate.

I'm very defensive of officers in general, as I feel the general white-washing of them is uncalled for and a travesty towards normally upstanding people who want nothing more than to make their communities a better place. I am equally very disgusted when officers, such as in this case, operate with complete disregard for human life and completely outside what is considered appropriate as it only harms the officers who act with the utmost respect for the people in their jurisdiction-even those who commit a crime.
Last edited by Seangoli on Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The United States of North Amerigo
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Founded: Apr 19, 2014
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Postby The United States of North Amerigo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:08 pm

Mirchusko wrote:
The United States of North Amerigo wrote:Headlock, not chokehold.

Please explain how you know that was not a chokehold.

According to Amerikick this is a headlock:Image
Amerigo.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:08 pm

The United States of North Amerigo wrote:
Scomagia wrote:They deliberately performed a potentially lethal maneuver that they have been instructed not to use for almost twenty years.

Headlock, not chokehold.

A headlock that choked him to death. Hmmm, sounds like a choke-hold to me.
Last edited by Scomagia on Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Insert trite farewell here

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Occupied Deutschland
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:09 pm

The United States of North Amerigo wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:Headlocks don't choke people to death.

The guy was OBESE AND HAD ASTHMA! People with asthma can die from very simple things, like running for example, or rapid changes in temperature.

And yet Garner didn't die from running or rapid changes in temperature.
He died from choking.
I'm General Patton.
Even those who are gone are with us as we go on.

Been busy lately--not around much.

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The United States of North Amerigo
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Founded: Apr 19, 2014
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Postby The United States of North Amerigo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:09 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Geilinor wrote:The chokehold plus asthma plus a heart attack killed him. The chokehold triggered the symptoms.

Exactly. Had a TASER been used, instead, there's a good chance that he'd still be alive, even with his heart condition.

No, he wouldn't be alive, regular kids have died from taser shots.
Amerigo.
Wouldn't mind a telegram. Forgive me for all the stupid shit I say
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The United States of North Amerigo
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Founded: Apr 19, 2014
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Postby The United States of North Amerigo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:09 pm

Occupied Deutschland wrote:
The United States of North Amerigo wrote:The guy was OBESE AND HAD ASTHMA! People with asthma can die from very simple things, like running for example, or rapid changes in temperature.

And yet Garner didn't die from running or rapid changes in temperature.
He died from choking.

The headlock triggered the asthma symptoms...
Amerigo.
Wouldn't mind a telegram. Forgive me for all the stupid shit I say
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Mirchusko
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Postby Mirchusko » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:09 pm

The United States of North Amerigo wrote:
Mirchusko wrote:Please explain how you know that was not a chokehold.

According to Amerikick this is a headlock:Image

From the article I quoted earlier:
An autopsy by the city’s medical examiner found that Mr. Garner’s death was a homicide resulting from the chokehold — a maneuver banned by the Police Department in 1993 — and the compression of his chest by police

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The United States of North Amerigo
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Founded: Apr 19, 2014
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Postby The United States of North Amerigo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:10 pm

Scomagia wrote:
The United States of North Amerigo wrote:Headlock, not chokehold.

A headlock that choked him to death. Hmmm, sounds like a choke-hold to me.

He had fucking asthma, the headlock triggered those symptoms.
Amerigo.
Wouldn't mind a telegram. Forgive me for all the stupid shit I say
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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Libertarian Police State

Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:10 pm

Occupied Deutschland wrote:
The United States of North Amerigo wrote:Anyways, if you're resisting arrest, then you're giving the officer a reason to put you in a headlock. ...

That might be relevant had Eric Garner resisted arrest.
And if the officer in question hadn't choked Garner to death with his chokehold.

He was resisting arrest. That's why they took him down. That part of the story is not in dispute.

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The United States of North Amerigo
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Founded: Apr 19, 2014
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Postby The United States of North Amerigo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:11 pm

Mirchusko wrote:
The United States of North Amerigo wrote:According to Amerikick this is a headlock:Image

From the article I quoted earlier:
An autopsy by the city’s medical examiner found that Mr. Garner’s death was a homicide resulting from the chokehold — a maneuver banned by the Police Department in 1993 — and the compression of his chest by police

He had fucking asthma... NYT is wrong....
Amerigo.
Wouldn't mind a telegram. Forgive me for all the stupid shit I say
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Mirchusko
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Postby Mirchusko » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:11 pm

The United States of North Amerigo wrote:
Mirchusko wrote:From the article I quoted earlier:

He had fucking asthma... NYT is wrong....

Source please?

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Occupied Deutschland
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Founded: Oct 01, 2010
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:12 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:That might be relevant had Eric Garner resisted arrest.
And if the officer in question hadn't choked Garner to death with his chokehold.

He was resisting arrest. That's why they took him down. That part of the story is not in dispute.

*shrug* I don't accept that noncompliance is resisting arrest.
I'm General Patton.
Even those who are gone are with us as we go on.

Been busy lately--not around much.

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Scomagia
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Founded: Apr 14, 2009
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Postby Scomagia » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:12 pm

The United States of North Amerigo wrote:
Mirchusko wrote:From the article I quoted earlier:

He had fucking asthma... NYT is wrong....

The M.E. is wrong?
Insert trite farewell here

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Occupied Deutschland
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:12 pm

The United States of North Amerigo wrote:
Mirchusko wrote:From the article I quoted earlier:

He had fucking asthma... NYT is wrong....

Is the city's medical examiner wrong, too?
I'm General Patton.
Even those who are gone are with us as we go on.

Been busy lately--not around much.

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Scomagia
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Founded: Apr 14, 2009
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Postby Scomagia » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:12 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:That might be relevant had Eric Garner resisted arrest.
And if the officer in question hadn't choked Garner to death with his chokehold.

He was resisting arrest. That's why they took him down. That part of the story is not in dispute.

Noncompliance is not resisting.
Insert trite farewell here

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The United States of North Amerigo
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Founded: Apr 19, 2014
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Postby The United States of North Amerigo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:13 pm

Amerigo.
Wouldn't mind a telegram. Forgive me for all the stupid shit I say
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The United States of North Amerigo
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Founded: Apr 19, 2014
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Postby The United States of North Amerigo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:13 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:He was resisting arrest. That's why they took him down. That part of the story is not in dispute.

Noncompliance is not resisting.

Yes it is.
Amerigo.
Wouldn't mind a telegram. Forgive me for all the stupid shit I say
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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Libertarian Police State

Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:14 pm

Occupied Deutschland wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:He was resisting arrest. That's why they took him down. That part of the story is not in dispute.

*shrug* I don't accept that noncompliance is resisting arrest.

When it comes to putting cuffs on, the police would disagree

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MERIZoC
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Founded: Dec 05, 2013
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Postby MERIZoC » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:15 pm

The United States of North Amerigo wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Noncompliance is not resisting.

Yes it is.

"The British should have choked that Gandhi upstart to death, too!"

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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:16 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:*shrug* I don't accept that noncompliance is resisting arrest.

When it comes to putting cuffs on, the police would disagree

Of course they would. They'd also agree that Contempt of Cop should be an actual charge. They're hardly experts on the law.
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Mirchusko
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Postby Mirchusko » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:16 pm


All 3 sources refer to it as a chokehold.
Medical examiners ruled Garner's death a homicide and said his health was a contributing factor. It listed the chokehold, his position on the ground and the compression of his chest as the main cause.

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