by Schneidern empire » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:05 am
by Schneidern empire » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:08 am
by Terrordome » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:25 am
by Schneidern empire » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:33 am
Terrordome wrote:It is great that the various European empires have left africa, it is not so great that they left behind the arbitrary borders they drew up behind. This has resulted in a great deal of ethnic strife.
by Patriarch » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:45 am
Schneidern empire wrote:Terrordome wrote:It is great that the various European empires have left africa, it is not so great that they left behind the arbitrary borders they drew up behind. This has resulted in a great deal of ethnic strife.
I think that Africa was too quick to push out the Europeans. Many of those countries were not ready for independence, and it's led to a lot of violence and genocide.
by Fortschritte » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:47 am
by Schneidern empire » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:52 am
by Terrordome » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:52 am
Schneidern empire wrote:Terrordome wrote:It is great that the various European empires have left africa, it is not so great that they left behind the arbitrary borders they drew up behind. This has resulted in a great deal of ethnic strife.
I think that Africa was too quick to push out the Europeans. Many of those countries were not ready for independence, and it's led to a lot of violence and genocide.
by Schneidern empire » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:23 pm
Terrordome wrote:Schneidern empire wrote:
I think that Africa was too quick to push out the Europeans. Many of those countries were not ready for independence, and it's led to a lot of violence and genocide.
I mostly disagree. The root cause of the post independance conflicts in Africa is mostly due to the effects of colonialism. Native Africans were denied a decent education, were forced by poverty and famine into swelling hives of disease like leopoldville/Kinshasa to work as cheap labour, found ancient communities and kingdoms split by arbitrary borders and were left with an infrastructure purely geared to remove resources for shipment to europe. It is hard to overestimate the mess that a lot of African countries were handed on independance. In places like the Congo it resulted in a perfect storm of ambition, ethnic discord and poverty to create some of last centuries most bloody conflicts.
Some colonies did land on their feet a bit better, such as Ghana which had a relatively more educated and skilled population than most other countries, but i still disagree than any further European influence could of had any beneficial outcomes. Foriegn interferance, like the cold war by proxy battles in Angola and Mozambique, merely served to deepen and worsen the conflicts.
by Czechanada » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:25 pm
by Terrordome » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:29 pm
Schneidern empire wrote:Terrordome wrote:
I mostly disagree. The root cause of the post independance conflicts in Africa is mostly due to the effects of colonialism. Native Africans were denied a decent education, were forced by poverty and famine into swelling hives of disease like leopoldville/Kinshasa to work as cheap labour, found ancient communities and kingdoms split by arbitrary borders and were left with an infrastructure purely geared to remove resources for shipment to europe. It is hard to overestimate the mess that a lot of African countries were handed on independance. In places like the Congo it resulted in a perfect storm of ambition, ethnic discord and poverty to create some of last centuries most bloody conflicts.
Some colonies did land on their feet a bit better, such as Ghana which had a relatively more educated and skilled population than most other countries, but i still disagree than any further European influence could of had any beneficial outcomes. Foriegn interferance, like the cold war by proxy battles in Angola and Mozambique, merely served to deepen and worsen the conflicts.
I agree with you about the Cold War, but I still think that instead of just pushing the Europeans out, they could have gradually demanded concessions, or get an international mediator in to grant independence readiness in shortest time, without undermining the entire political system and economy.
Case in point: South Africa.
by Schneidern empire » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:35 pm
Czechanada wrote:Africa should be united in one country with one religion. Islam should do.
by Schneidern empire » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:38 pm
Terrordome wrote:Schneidern empire wrote:
I agree with you about the Cold War, but I still think that instead of just pushing the Europeans out, they could have gradually demanded concessions, or get an international mediator in to grant independence readiness in shortest time, without undermining the entire political system and economy.
Case in point: South Africa.
When the Europeans tried to stick around, like Portugal did in Angola, Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau (until 1974!!) it ended up so so much worse.
by Vista Major » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:16 pm
Czechanada wrote:Africa should be united in one country with one religion. Islam should do.
by Anglo-California » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:19 pm
by Vista Major » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:21 pm
Schneidern empire wrote:I guess I'll start the debates. So, NSG, do you think that the withdrawal of colonies has been a good thing or a bad thing for Africa?
by Schneidern empire » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:52 am
by Divitaen » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:56 am
Fortschritte wrote:Colonialism screwed over Africa, and the leaders they installed when they left Africa severely harmed many African nations. They also drew boundaries in horrible areas, causing ethnic strife. Many of Africa's problems were caused by colonialism.
by Saiwania » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:58 am
by Nazi Flower Power » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:28 am
by Vissegaard » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:46 am
by Nortrom » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:09 am
by Mtwara » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:50 am
by Terrordome » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:54 am
Nortrom wrote:The withdrawal's results were far from ideal, but I believe that it's better to have free, independent African nations than colonized ones.
What do you guys think about China's attempts to become Africa's new "colonial" overlord? China is going after Africa's resources like crazy.
by Lingang » Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:19 pm
Saiwania wrote:Colonialism was the best thing to happen to Africa in the long run, the jungle was cut down and infrastructure was built and in exchange the occupying powers got the use of some natural resources. I think it is a shame that decolonization happened, but I think it will enjoy a limited revival depending on how China conducts its business with African nations.
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