All About Immigration

[Soldati Senza Confini]

In general theory, I greatly approve of the creation of chaos and disorder through unchecked immigration. Being born in Berkeley, my opinions on politics are always skewed.

But I do see where you're coming from in some places. Controlling low-skill labor immigrants is important. Leeching health benefits is also very, very bad to a society.

On the other hand/hoof/claw, working with these laborers can boost a county's productivity and population, if done right. Also, as a side note, please explain to me why Barack Osama's act is illegal. I truly don't understand these ideas.

Barack Osama

Nowhere in the Constitution does it grant the executive branch the power to pass laws, indeed that power is vested in the Legislative Branch of the Federal Government.

Well, Executive Orders are not really changes in law. They are more like administrative decisions.

As the enforcer of federal law, he can halt deportation through the administrative process that governs USCIS and the DHS. He cannot, however, change the law.

[Temujinn]

Open up the borders; remind the world we're a country of immigrants, whatever the objections of WASPs and their supporters.

I find Blacks to be far more racist towards latinos. Also grossly under educated about everything. As to the religious preference, I suppose Blacks are far more likely to be protestant than Catholic.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I side with economics and Economics say, stop being hard on illegals becuase they actually create economic growth and put more money into the economy than out.
I dont support amnesty, I support not being so hard on people sneaking in, we dont WANT them documented.

Basically if your claim is that immigrants (illegal or otherwise) are an economic drain on our nation you are 1. a Liar, 2. Stupid-- No not ignorant because you didnt do research before you made a claim, which makes you STUPID 3. You are a xenophobic racist trying to hide behind econimics lies.

IN actuality you are likely a lying stupid racist-- the trifecta of anti-immigration crowd. What you are not is ; Educated, You do not possess American Values, You are not a Conservative, you are also likely not good in bed.
I could literally spend hours linking economic studies showing that immigration both legal and illegal do absolutely no harm to the economy and actually offer net gains and increased wages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magaz ... d=all&_r=0
http://www.cfr.org/immigration/economic ... ion/p12969
http://business.time.com/2013/01/30/the ... s-and-why/
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/ ... us-economy
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/ ... -all-work/
http://www.economist.com/news/united-st ... f3fbc1d354
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicd ... f3fbc1d354
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/immi ... eople.html
http://g92.org/find-answers/economics/
http://www.analysisonline.org/site/aoar ... =140001400

"Alan Greenspan, PhD, former Chairman of the US Federal Reserve, stated in his Apr. 30, 2009 testimony before the US Senate Subcommittee on Immigration, Refugees, and Border Security:
"[T]here is little doubt that unauthorized, that is, illegal, immigration has made a significant contribution to the growth of our economy. Between 2000 and 2007, for example, it accounted for more than a sixth of the increase in our total civilian labor force. The illegal part of the civilian labor force diminished last year as the economy slowed, though illegals still comprised an estimated 5% of our total civilian labor force. Unauthorized immigrants serve as a flexible component of our workforce, often a safety valve when demand is pressing and among the first to be discharged when the economy falters.
Some evidence suggests that unskilled illegal immigrants (almost all from Latin America) marginally suppress wage levels of native-born Americans without a high school diploma, and impose significant costs on some state and local governments.
However the estimated wage suppression and fiscal costs are relatively small, and economists generally view the overall economic benefits of this workforce as significantly outweighing the costs."

Apr. 30, 2009 - Alan Greenspan, PhD"

Francine J. Lipman, MBA, LLM, Professor of Law, Business and Economics at Chapman University, wrote in a Spring 2006 Tax Lawyer essay titled "Taxing Undocumented Immigrants: Separate, Unequal and Without Representation":
"Americans believe that undocumented immigrants are exploiting the United States' economy. The widespread belief is that illegal aliens cost more in government services than they contribute to the economy. This belief is undeniably false... [E]very empirical study of illegals' economic impact demonstrates the opposite: undocumenteds actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services. Moreover, undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs. Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed [according to the Dec. 1995 study by Julian L. Simon, "Immigration, the Demographic & Economic Facts," of the Cato Institute and the National Immigration Forum] have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy."

Spring 2006 - Francine J. Lipman, MBA, LLM

Raul Hinojosa, PhD, Associate Professor of Chicana and Chicano Studies at the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA), wrote in his July 18, 2005 BusinessWeek interview "A Massive Economic Development Boom":
"First and foremost, [illegal immigration] it's a source of value added. The total goods and services that they consume through their paycheck, plus all that they produce for their employers, is close to about $800 billion. They're also producing at relatively lower costs because the undocumented population typically gets about 20% less in wages than if they were legalized. That leads to lower prices for us and higher profits to employers. In addition, they're obviously a huge consumer base. We've seen that 90% of the wages that the undocumented population gets are spent inside the U.S. Remittances are sent abroad, but that only represents about 10% of immigrants' income. The numbers are becoming quite huge. We estimate about $50 billion dollars in remittances this year. That means that total consumptive capacity remaining in the U.S. is $400 billion to $450 billion. If you took away the undocumented population, it would be the worst economic disaster in the history of the U.S."

July 18, 2005 - Raul Hinojosa, PhD

Well, documenting immigrants lets us actually tax their income and they can have better career opportunities (which many young people who are illegal immigrants are hoping they can attain if the U.S. passes a path to immigration - even if it isn't amnesty). And, higher income generally means more tax money for the government.

How is documenting them and being able to tax their income NOT A GOOD THING?!

[Conserative Morality]

I find Blacks to be far more racist towards latinos. Also grossly under educated about everything. As to the religious preference, I suppose Blacks are far more likely to be protestant than Catholic.

So I can mark you down as someone whose opinion should be ignored on this matter?

[Temujinn]

In general theory, I greatly approve of the creation of chaos and disorder through unchecked immigration. Being born in Berkeley, my opinions on politics are always skewed.

But I do see where you're coming from in some places. Controlling low-skill labor immigrants is important. Leeching health benefits is also very, very bad to a society.

On the other hand/hoof/claw, working with these laborers can boost a county's productivity and population, if done right. Also, as a side note, please explain to me why Barack Osama's act is illegal. I truly don't understand these ideas.

Barack Osama

Nowhere in the Constitution does it grant the executive branch the power to pass laws, indeed that power is vested in the Legislative Branch of the Federal Government.

Whew... nowhere does it prohibit Executive Orders and the Executive Order predates every single Amendment to the Constitution. George Washington cranked out 8 of them. Roosevelt knocked over 1000 executive orders.
Oct. 3, 1789 - Thanksgiving HOliday created by Executive Order
July 15, 1792, and Aug. 7, 1794, Executive Orders urged citizens to recognize and pay the tax on liquor that had become law. Washington(our First President) then used Military Force against Americans who defied his order.

I could go on, but hey, I suspect you like being just as uninformed as you can be.




http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=m ... =1up;seq=3

[Syndicapolis]

Freedom of movement is very important, and if someone doesn't like the country they live in or is unable to make enough money, get opportunity or live in security in that country they have every right to leave it. Immigrants also tend to work hard, pay taxes and repay what they've taken later on - my family, with the help of generous social programs and tertiary education subsidies, certainly did. When people discuss immigration, we need to keep in mind that more natives are on welfare than immigrants, more natives are unemployed than immigrants, and ARBITRARY LINES DRAWN INTO PIECES OF LAND HAVE NO GREATER SIGNIFICANCE.

[Temujinn]

I find Blacks to be far more racist towards latinos. Also grossly under educated about everything. As to the religious preference, I suppose Blacks are far more likely to be protestant than Catholic.

So I can mark you down as someone whose opinion should be ignored on this matter?

Well you are in point of fact the one who decided Race was important. I do believe WASP has a very specific racial meaning.

Open up the borders; remind the world we're a country of immigrants, whatever the objections of WASPs and their supporters.

Oh I am sorry do you not like being confronted by your own bigoted thought process?

[MERIZoC]

Open the borders. Legalize marijuana. Find out how much money you save.

[Conserative Morality]

Well you are in point of fact the one who decided Race was important. I do believe WASP has a very specific racial meaning.

Oh I am sorry do you not like being confronted by your own bigoted thought process?

WASP has a political and racial meaning, the same way 'White Nationalist' has a specific political and racial meaning. I also didn't say anything like "WASPs are uneducated on just about every subject", or even "WASPs are way more racist than the average person".

But hey, whatever makes you feel better about your deep-seated fear of black people, you know?

[Lalaki]

I wholly support a moderate open border policy. In my opinion, we should document all men, women, and children coming into this nation to seek a better life, as long as they promise to follow laws and pay taxes. I also believe in granting amnesty to undocumented workers/families currently living in the United States. These are hardworking people who are escaping a very difficult situation in poorer countries throughout the world. We have the resources and abilities to help them.

Americans are a very diverse group. Most people currently living in the US either have ancestors/parents who were born in another country, or were born outside this nation themselves. If we truly believe in our principles of fairness for all, we need to grant that fairness to future generations of people who want to come in. To place restrictions on peaceful immigration and to deport workers simply because they do not have papers would be to disregard the beliefs and creeds of these United States of America.

[Nordinia]

USA, as a full capitalist country does make a lot of money from immigration.
This is not true for Europe, however. It's a high liablity.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... llion.html

The costs are insane. If the birth-rates are failing, then the state should take matters into own hands.
Promote having multiple children, and it's even possible to "loan" the best genes from buisnessmen, doctors etc and make own institutions where we get this "upper-class" citizens with the best genes. Everybody wins, right?

*If you want to help 3rd world countries, don't claim that you like immigration. For every one you help, nine are left behind for the amount of money it takes to help one person. If the western countries had cared more about the immigrants themselves, and not just about their capitalism and their false dream for a multicultural Europe, then this would never have happened. People would actually be happy in their homeland, not seeking to run away in most cases.

[Temujinn]

Well you are in point of fact the one who decided Race was important. I do believe WASP has a very specific racial meaning.

Oh I am sorry do you not like being confronted by your own bigoted thought process?

WASP has a political and racial meaning, the same way 'White Nationalist' has a specific political and racial meaning. I also didn't say anything like "WASPs are uneducated on just about every subject", or even "WASPs are way more racist than the average person".

But hey, whatever makes you feel better about your deep-seated fear of black people, you know?

White Anglo Saxon Protestant - it has no Political meaning, and has nothign to do with White Nationalism. To suggest it does have something to do with White Nationalism is a back peddling bald faced lie because you were challenged on your bigoted comment. As a matter of fact it is often used as slur much in the same way House NIgger is used.

[Conserative Morality]

White Anglo Saxon Protestant - it has no Political meaning, and has nothign to do with White Nationalism. To suggest it does have something to do with White Nationalism is a back peddling bald faced lie because you were challenged on your bigoted comment.

White Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP) is an informal term, sometimes disparaging,[1] for a group of high-status and influential White Americans of English Protestant ancestry. The term applies to a group believed to control disproportionate social, political, and financial power in the United States.[2] The term WASP describes a group whose family wealth, education, status, and elite connections allow them a degree of privilege held by few others.[3]

[Temujinn]

White Anglo Saxon Protestant - it has no Political meaning, and has nothign to do with White Nationalism. To suggest it does have something to do with White Nationalism is a back peddling bald faced lie because you were challenged on your bigoted comment.

White Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP) is an informal term, sometimes disparaging,[1] for a group of high-status and influential White Americans of English Protestant ancestry. The term applies to a group believed to control disproportionate social, political, and financial power in the United States.[2] The term WASP describes a group whose family wealth, education, status, and elite connections allow them a degree of privilege held by few others.[3]

So youre a classist and bigot. Because its a SLur, not a politica label, even your link says so.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

USA, as a full capitalist country does make a lot of money from immigration.
This is not true for Europe, however. It's a high liablity.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... llion.html

The costs are insane. If the birth-rates are failing, then the state should take matters into own hands.
Promote having multiple children, and it's even possible to "loan" the best genes from buisnessmen, doctors etc and make own institutions where we get this "upper-class" citizens with the best genes. Everybody wins, right?

*If you want to help 3rd world countries, don't claim that you like immigration. For every one you help, nine are left behind for the amount of money it takes to help one person. If the western countries had cared more about the immigrants themselves, and not just about their capitalism and their false dream for a multicultural Europe, then this would never have happened. People would actually be happy in their homeland, not seeking to run away in most cases.

This isn't Gattaca.

[Conserative Morality]

So youre a classist and bigot. Because its a SLur, not a politica label, even your link says so.

Is accusing someone of being a WASP likely to damage their reputation? I don't think so. The people who are WASPs aren't exactly shy about it.

My link says it's an informal term, sometimes used disparagingly. I openly admit that I use it disparagingly. Something about the mentality of the group referred to being rather contrary to American values. And as my link mentions, it is very much a political term.

[Nordinia]

USA, as a full capitalist country does make a lot of money from immigration.
This is not true for Europe, however. It's a high liablity.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... llion.html

The costs are insane. If the birth-rates are failing, then the state should take matters into own hands.
Promote having multiple children, and it's even possible to "loan" the best genes from buisnessmen, doctors etc and make own institutions where we get this "upper-class" citizens with the best genes. Everybody wins, right?

*If you want to help 3rd world countries, don't claim that you like immigration. For every one you help, nine are left behind for the amount of money it takes to help one person. If the western countries had cared more about the immigrants themselves, and not just about their capitalism and their false dream for a multicultural Europe, then this would never have happened. People would actually be happy in their homeland, not seeking to run away in most cases.

This isn't Gattaca.

Doesn't matter. It's an easy sollution. And much more effective than immigration, which costs European countries billions of euro each year. Just pay women without a job 40k euro each kid they get; while at the same time having competent people looking over them, making sure they don't harm the child with their filthy habits.

[Chestaan]

"Because it's unconstitutional" should never be an argument for something being wrong.
Open the borders, it's for the best for everyone.

[Temujinn]

So youre a classist and bigot. Because its a SLur, not a politica label, even your link says so.

Is accusing someone of being a WASP likely to damage their reputation? I don't think so. The people who are WASPs aren't exactly shy about it.

My link says it's an informal term, sometimes used disparagingly. I openly admit that I use it disparagingly. Something about the mentality of the group referred to being rather contrary to American values. And as my link mentions, it is very much a political term.

So then yes, you admit you use it disparagingly because being White and Affluent is something to be ashamed of, since you admit you would consider this to be an insult. You are in fact by your own admission a bigot and a Classist.

WASP is a slur, as your link says and as you use it. You presume that Whites who are Protestant and of English heritage are somehow beneath you-- hence your use as an insult.

Im not sure why you are denying what is so plain.

I would imagine the only reason you support Immigrants is because in your twisted psyche you believe it bothers Whites. When in actuality far more Whites are involved in helping with the issue than any other ethnic group. This is of course a function of US demographics, not ethnic predilection, not something I would expect an admitted bigot like yourself to understand.

[Temujinn]

So youre a classist and bigot. Because its a SLur, not a politica label, even your link says so.

Is accusing someone of being a WASP likely to damage their reputation? I don't think so. The people who are WASPs aren't exactly shy about it.

My link says it's an informal term, sometimes used disparagingly. I openly admit that I use it disparagingly. Something about the mentality of the group referred to being rather contrary to American values. And as my link mentions, it is very much a political term.

Also "Accusing" someone of being White of a specific heritage?
Like accusing someone of being a Jew?

But you deny being a bigot?

[Nordinia]

Is accusing someone of being a WASP likely to damage their reputation? I don't think so. The people who are WASPs aren't exactly shy about it.

My link says it's an informal term, sometimes used disparagingly. I openly admit that I use it disparagingly. Something about the mentality of the group referred to being rather contrary to American values. And as my link mentions, it is very much a political term.

Also "Accusing" someone of being White of a specific heritage?
Like accusing someone of being a Jew?

But you deny being a bigot?

Bigots are allowed as long as they're negative to whites. Anti-racism and white hating whites are the norm these days, it's politically correct to hate and laugh at whites. If you laugh at someone, laugh at the white male. If you do something else, then you're obviously a racist, a holocaust denier, a massmurderer, a satanic worshipper and the like.

[Temujinn]

I side with economics and Economics say, stop being hard on illegals becuase they actually create economic growth and put more money into the economy than out.
I dont support amnesty, I support not being so hard on people sneaking in, we dont WANT them documented.

Basically if your claim is that immigrants (illegal or otherwise) are an economic drain on our nation you are 1. a Liar, 2. Stupid-- No not ignorant because you didnt do research before you made a claim, which makes you STUPID 3. You are a xenophobic racist trying to hide behind econimics lies.

IN actuality you are likely a lying stupid racist-- the trifecta of anti-immigration crowd. What you are not is ; Educated, You do not possess American Values, You are not a Conservative, you are also likely not good in bed.
I could literally spend hours linking economic studies showing that immigration both legal and illegal do absolutely no harm to the economy and actually offer net gains and increased wages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magaz ... d=all&_r=0
http://www.cfr.org/immigration/economic ... ion/p12969
http://business.time.com/2013/01/30/the ... s-and-why/
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/ ... us-economy
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/ ... -all-work/
http://www.economist.com/news/united-st ... f3fbc1d354
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicd ... f3fbc1d354
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/immi ... eople.html
http://g92.org/find-answers/economics/
http://www.analysisonline.org/site/aoar ... =140001400

Well, documenting immigrants lets us actually tax their income and they can have better career opportunities (which many young people who are illegal immigrants are hoping they can attain if the U.S. passes a path to immigration - even if it isn't amnesty). And, higher income generally means more tax money for the government.

How is documenting them and being able to tax their income NOT A GOOD THING?!

You think undocumented workers dont pay taxes? Another person who has no grasp of how labor works.

Let me guess youre 16.

Illegals use a false social security number, they pay taxes- city, state and federal. However at the end of the year they do not file for a return which they would receive a refund and likely qualify for the many tax credits and additional refunds) instead they avoid scrutiny and do not claim the money owned them

Additionally these same immigrants pay into social security, and almost none of them ever collect on said benefit.


You honestly believe all these economist support illegals because they arent paying into the tax base. Just amazing.

[Martean]

Also "Accusing" someone of being White of a specific heritage?
Like accusing someone of being a Jew?

But you deny being a bigot?

Bigots are allowed as long as they're negative to whites. Anti-racism and white hating whites are the norm these days, it's politically correct to hate and laugh at whites. If you laugh at someone, laugh at the white male. If you do something else, then you're obviously a racist, a holocaust denier, a massmurderer, a satanic worshipper and the like.

What?

You racists think EVERYONE is racist, and just think that if we defend that white people = black people, then whe MUST be racist. Just like the thief that thinks everyone is also a thief.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

This isn't Gattaca.

Doesn't matter. It's an easy sollution. And much more effective than immigration, which costs European countries billions of euro each year. Just pay women without a job 40k euro each kid they get; while at the same time having competent people looking over them, making sure they don't harm the child with their filthy habits.

This still isn't Gattaca.

And easy solutions, sure, if you think the solution is eugenics. Which is not.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well, documenting immigrants lets us actually tax their income and they can have better career opportunities (which many young people who are illegal immigrants are hoping they can attain if the U.S. passes a path to immigration - even if it isn't amnesty). And, higher income generally means more tax money for the government.

How is documenting them and being able to tax their income NOT A GOOD THING?!

You think undocumented workers dont pay taxes? Another person who has no grasp of how labor works.

Let me guess youre 16.

Illegals use a false social security number, they pay taxes- city, state and federal. However at the end of the year they do not file for a return which they would receive a refund and likely qualify for the many tax credits and additional refunds) instead they avoid scrutiny and do not claim the money owned them

Additionally these same immigrants pay into social security, and almost none of them ever collect on said benefit.


You honestly believe all these economist support illegals because they arent paying into the tax base. Just amazing.

Are you serious, or are you just simply taking shit out of your ass and posting it? Or are you just an 18 year old who just came to the amazing revelation that immigrants pay taxes?

Let me guess, you actually don't know how taxes work.

I never said that immigrants do not pay taxes, I said that immigrants, by being documented, they can contribute to the government's coffers because they'd be taxed over their individual incomes (which is not being done now, because very few people actually know the existence of the ITIN or the fact that the IRS doesn't do reports to the DHS or ICE) and the young can have career advancements and prospects that were not previously available to them (raising their value in the market and, again, increases of income equal taxable income) . That is not the same as the taxes they pay otherwise without being documented (which are sales and property taxes).