Can humans "choose" religion?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Follow the conclusion of this down to its end. What you're pretty much espousing is that we do not have a choice. In anything. Because the function of exposing yourself to greater amounts of things is, in itself, a result of a previous equation. As such, since all results are the result of previous equations, there are no choices to be made. Period.

Correct.

I don't accept that. Experience says otherwise.

Your experience is an illusion. Specifically, it's the illusion of control.

Yeah, no. I don't believe in the concept of predestination. It's an absurd concept in religion and it is equally absurd when you put a scientific veneer upon it.

[Communist Volkstrad]

They do choose, for example, I did.
Dropping faith after being brought up religious, is choosing to stop believing it.

Well since you don't seem to be getting what I'm saying, let me spell it out for you:
I didn't ever go, "Well, I've lived my whole life believing in the reality of an omnipotent, celestial Alec Guinness, but just for a change of pace, today I'm going to decide that reality isn't the way I thought it was, and in fact it's some other way."

That would be choosing a belief, but that's not what happens. What actually happens is more like this:
"Hmm... you know that belief in an omnipotent, celestial Alec Guinness that I've held on to since childhood? I've realized that I don't really feel strongly that that is true anymore. In fact, I rather doubt that it is true. In fact, upon reflection, I realize I don't believe it."

And that's not a choice. That's a realization.

That is true.
However, back to the topic, there are people who choose to become say Buddhists or Hindus or other religions. While I'll admit that people who change their beliefs aren't something you stumble across every day, they do exist.

[Nervium]

No, technically we all serve the Indivisable Will of the Invisible Pink Unicorn (mHhtiof), wether we like it or not.

[Big Jim P]

I chose mine.

[The Grey Wolf]

People choose and change religions all the time. I chose to leave Christianity and become an atheist, move to agnostic, convert to Buddhism, deconvert, convert to Deism, etc.

Correct.

Your experience is an illusion. Specifically, it's the illusion of control.

Yeah, no. I don't believe in the concept of predestination. It's an absurd concept in religion and it is equally absurd when you put a scientific veneer upon it.

It's a blanket and teddy bear, a source of comfort, regardless of whether it's the religious or non-religious believing in it.

[Roski]

I was thinking that the modern liberal democratic system has to give people certain freedoms, including freedom from discrimination. One should not be discriminated because of colour, gender, sexual orientation age etc. These have one thing in common: Nobody chooses this, like, nobody says "I'm gonna become black".

I think this is perfectly fine, but I am really not sure if religion is something a human being can choose or has to stick with, as I would think many people are in a way born with their religion as in they are raised with it and have to stick with it, they can't choose.

So what do you think, is religion something like gender which can't be chosen, or more like a affinity that can be chosen?

Religion is a false idea created by people originally by those to explain what they couldn't explain, and continued as an attempt to control the masses (the threat of everlasting hell seems to work rather well, I suppose). It can be chosen, because once again, its an idea. Not something physical.

Homosexuality is physical
Race is physical
Religion is an idea
Racism is an idea.

Thank you for your time.

[Benuty]

I was thinking that the modern liberal democratic system has to give people certain freedoms, including freedom from discrimination. One should not be discriminated because of colour, gender, sexual orientation age etc. These have one thing in common: Nobody chooses this, like, nobody says "I'm gonna become black".

I think this is perfectly fine, but I am really not sure if religion is something a human being can choose or has to stick with, as I would think many people are in a way born with their religion as in they are raised with it and have to stick with it, they can't choose.

So what do you think, is religion something like gender which can't be chosen, or more like a affinity that can be chosen?

Religion is a false idea created by people originally by those to explain what they couldn't explain, and continued as an attempt to control the masses (the threat of everlasting hell seems to work rather well, I suppose). It can be chosen, because once again, its an idea. Not something physical.

Homosexuality is physical
Race is physical
Religion is an idea
Racism is an idea.

Thank you for your time.

How exactly is race physical? It has not a trace of biological basis.

Phenotype on the other hand.

[Roski]

Religion is a false idea created by people originally by those to explain what they couldn't explain, and continued as an attempt to control the masses (the threat of everlasting hell seems to work rather well, I suppose). It can be chosen, because once again, its an idea. Not something physical.

Homosexuality is physical
Race is physical
Religion is an idea
Racism is an idea.

Thank you for your time.

How exactly is race physical? It has not a trace of biological basis.

Phenotype on the other hand.

"How is race physical"

I suppose the difference in skin colour is physical, while Race is a concept.

[Conscentia]

Correct.

Your experience is an illusion. Specifically, it's the illusion of control.

Yeah, no. I don't believe in the concept of predestination. It's an absurd concept in religion and it is equally absurd when you put a scientific veneer upon it.

No, free will is an utterly absurd concept. Atoms, like the ones your brain is composed of, cannot control their motion. They do not have free will.

In-fact, experiments have demonstrated that your actions may be predicted about 6 seconds before you're even consciously aware of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6S9OidmNZM

[Janshah]

Hm.. changing your religion (as in, the set of religious practises you observe and the nominal label you apply to yourself) can be taken seperate from the issue of changing your beliefs, and is certainly the easier of the two to change. So can you choose it?

(note: I am not going to step into the bog of Free Will, because that is a philosophical argument without closure that could be used to question whether we have choice in anything. No disrespect for the viewpoints of those who argue that point though.)

Thinking abstractly first, the logical answer is 'it can be chosen', because the opposite theory that religion cannot be chosen crumbles at the first example of someone who renounced one faith and took up another, and there is no shortage of people who have done that.

But practically, there certainly are barriers that make it more likely for someone to remain in the religion that was part of their nurture.

For one thing, if the person has developed into a 'True Believer' in the religion they were brought up with, then they have that as their 'True Religion', and it would be impossible to choose another, because why go away from what your heart/mind holds true for something that can only be less than entirely true?

But even if the person is not very convinced of the validity of the religion they were raised in, there will be plain inertia ("it is easier not to change than it is to change"), peer pressure and filial bonds ("my parents and all the friends I grew up with are in this religion"), and institutional regulations that can make it hard to walk away from, or towards, certain faiths - some of the more extreme religious practices have punishments for trying to get out, or conversely, are isolationist to the point that they do not accept converts to join them.

My final observation is that even being a true believer in a faith however does not necessarily cancel the possibility of coerced conversion, unless the person would really rather suffer than renounce their faith, which takes a certain character in addition to faith - but I think this should not be regarded as 'chosing another religion', but rather 'chosing to live'.


Food for further thought: when there is a schism in an existing religion and it becomes two branches, then noone is changing their beliefs, everyone will claim that their version is the true interpretation of the original religion, but at least one of the branches will have to be under a new name (at least informally so they can tell themselves apart) and constitute a new faith. But did anyone technically convert from the ante-schism to the post-schism situation if both branches say they are the true form of what was before, or do they perceive it as themselves having stayed true and that it's always the other side that faltered in their faith?

[Dalcaria]

I'm not so sure "choose" is the correct term. Certainly you can (in a sense) choose a religion, much like many grade 8's I was in school with wanted to "choose" which religion looked like the most fun for them. Now actually being emotionally and spiritually involved in a religion? I think that's more deep than choosing, it's something that I think happens from someone being deeply emotionally, mentally, and spiritually touched by something. You can't really choose what speaks to your heart, though it can change, of that I'm sure most people can tell you is true. But I think this really boils down to definitions it feels; what does it really mean to "choose" a religion, must it be conscious, or can it be subconscious? And is being drawn to a religion really a choice, or just internal workings we don't have control over? I think it's somewhat debatable for these things, but also it's different for each person, so we can say yes and no perhaps as each may have their own story to tell about it.

[British Prussia]

I accepted mine, no complaints. Largely because I was born to a Catholic family.

[Risottia]

So what do you think, is religion something like gender which can't be chosen, or more like a affinity that can be chosen?

Considering that conversion is an actual phenomenon, of course religion can be chosen.

[Harpers Ferry]

I was raised Catholic but as early as first grade I started to question it, and it didn't take long for me to adopt my atheist belief, so yes it was a choice for me, as I'm sure it is for many.

[Sahrani South]

The question is not if one can convert, the question is if religion is a conscious choice or not.

[Rocknest]

Religion is a choice, belief isn't.

[PR of Concord]

As long as they live in a democratic country.

[Ifreann]

I was thinking that the modern liberal democratic system has to give people certain freedoms, including freedom from discrimination. One should not be discriminated because of colour, gender, sexual orientation age etc. These have one thing in common: Nobody chooses this, like, nobody says "I'm gonna become black".

I think this is perfectly fine, but I am really not sure if religion is something a human being can choose or has to stick with, as I would think many people are in a way born with their religion as in they are raised with it and have to stick with it, they can't choose.

So what do you think, is religion something like gender which can't be chosen, or more like a affinity that can be chosen?

you shouldn't be able to.

if you think you have a choice and still claim to be religious, then you don't really believe what you believe.

I can try as hard as I want and I simply can't believe that God exists ''on a balance of probabilities'' or ''beyond a reasonable doubt,'' based on what I've been told, how my brain interprets things, my intuition etc

If you are one of those people who do believe through a combination of factors that God exists ''on a balance or probabilities'' or ''beyond a reasonable doubt'' then you shouldn't just be able to change your mind without the introduction or subtraction of a fact/factor, or the re-interpretation of a critical fact/factor... which then resets the balance for you.

Being religious is like having a crush on a girl. You do not have a choice. Either you like the person or you do not. You can find out more about the person or you may get attracted to something else... but you can't consciously just suddenly decide to stop liking a person. It's not a conscious choice. You can have a conscious choice to find out more but you can't just flip a switch and turn it on or off at will.

Religion is not a choice.

If you think it is a choice, then there is a good chance you are pretending to believe what you say you believe.

Wearing a Christian hat does not make you a Christian, you actually have to believe in your heart that God exists on a balance or probabilities or beyond a reasonable doubt. And if you do, you can't just turn the switch off without something automatically resetting the balance.

You can be a member of a religion without believing in their deity or their dogma. Basically you're completely wrong.

[Risottia]

The question is not if one can convert, the question is if religion is a conscious choice or not.

Convertion => ability to choose.

[Olerand]

By that logic, all entirely social things are changable.
Would be interesting to see what you think about gender roles.




On topic though,
I do not believe in free will at all, but to say that someone chooses a religion is ridiculous. You can start or stop believing in something, but not with a conscious choice. I do not decide what sort of religious upbringing (if any) I receive. I also do not control my surroundings, which really is the thing that makes us who we are. Religion isn't a choice, because it isn't choosen. Really isn't a debate.

They are.

Built by societies, and based upon biological factors, but still societally constructed.

[ZUN]

It's likely been said already, but religion or lack thereof is a matter of belief... or lack thereof, so of course it's something people can choose. Granted, children regularly have whatever given religion hoisted onto them by their parents, but it's their choice once they've gotten their independence whether or not they want to keep going with it.

[Menassa]

If one can be 'losing their religion'
can one not be 'choosing their religion?'

[Sun Wukong]

If one can be 'losing their religion'
can one not be 'choosing their religion?'

Bit of a non sequitur. "losing their religion" is not necessarily a deliberate action. Choosing must be, by definition.

[Menassa]

If one can be 'losing their religion'
can one not be 'choosing their religion?'

Bit of a non sequitur. "losing their religion" is not necessarily a deliberate action. Choosing must be, by definition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-UzXIQ5vw

[Burleson]

I was thinking that the modern liberal democratic system has to give people certain freedoms, including freedom from discrimination. One should not be discriminated because of colour, gender, sexual orientation age etc. These have one thing in common: Nobody chooses this, like, nobody says "I'm gonna become black".

I think this is perfectly fine, but I am really not sure if religion is something a human being can choose or has to stick with, as I would think many people are in a way born with their religion as in they are raised with it and have to stick with it, they can't choose.

So what do you think, is religion something like gender which can't be chosen, or more like a affinity that can be chosen?

People convert to other religions all the time, proof that it is a choice.