Cleaveland Officer Shoots A 12 YEAR OLD

[The Cobalt Sky]

I've liked some of your opinions on things, so I think I should warn you that's probably flaming. Please Don't let trolls get to you.

Sigh... I apologise, it just incredibly annoys me when a person has such an apathetic view (even in kidding) towards a kid who obviously repeats the age old adult assumption that children are often irresponsible thus need parental guidance...

No need to apologize to me. I feel that rage too. I just channel it into disproving them. We've got similar ideas, and cunning is a valuable thing in this world and I didn't want to see the mods squash someone with it. I say just edit the post, if you can. They win when we explode.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Sigh... I apologise, it just incredibly annoys me when a person has such an apathetic view (even in kidding) towards a kid who obviously repeats the age old adult assumption that children are often irresponsible thus need parental guidance...

No need to apologize to me. I feel that rage too. I just channel it into disproving them. We've got similar ideas, and cunning is a valuable thing in this world and I didn't want to see the mods squash someone with it. I say just edit the post, if you can. They win when we explode.

Explode?

[The Cobalt Sky]

If I remember correctly the kid pulled it out and pointed it at the officers. I fail to see how this is the cops fault. It is of course horrendous a child died, but the polices response is pretty expected when they believed that a real weapon was being brought to bear on them.

I'm pretty sure it just looked like he only reached for it. The source is right there, I'll check it again but I suggest you do too.

[Harpers Ferry]

If I remember correctly the kid pulled it out and pointed it at the officers. I fail to see how this is the cops fault. It is of course horrendous a child died, but the polices response is pretty expected when they believed that a real weapon was being brought to bear on them.

You're supposed to aim in an area where you can maim them at worst not kill them...

It is easy to look down your nose at them when you have probably never been in a situation where your life could possibly end. I have, and it isn't exactly a good atmosphere for intricate thought. Your first thought is not "oh aim for the legs, best to maim rather than kill". And yeah, you can pull the training card and say they should always try and take non lethal shots, but they are people, not robocop.

[The Cobalt Sky]

No need to apologize to me. I feel that rage too. I just channel it into disproving them. We've got similar ideas, and cunning is a valuable thing in this world and I didn't want to see the mods squash someone with it. I say just edit the post, if you can. They win when we explode.

Explode?

When we get too angry and the mods supress is because we aren't supposed to say bad things to other people. The mods aren't bias, so we can't go around calling them bad things, even if we're right. Of course, if it's too obvious it's baiting.

[The blood ravens]

If I remember correctly the kid pulled it out and pointed it at the officers. I fail to see how this is the cops fault. It is of course horrendous a child died, but the polices response is pretty expected when they believed that a real weapon was being brought to bear on them.

You're supposed to aim in an area where you can maim them at worst not kill them...

It's been explained several times in this thread why shooting to maim is a bad idea.

[The Nihilistic view]

If I remember correctly the kid pulled it out and pointed it at the officers. I fail to see how this is the cops fault. It is of course horrendous a child died, but the polices response is pretty expected when they believed that a real weapon was being brought to bear on them.

I'm pretty sure it just looked like he only reached for it. The source is right there, I'll check it again but I suggest you do too.

In the today Times it only says he was holding it not that he pointed it at the cops. Given the tenancy of cops to make up and change stories in the past for now i'm inclined to believe he did not point it at them.

[The Cobalt Sky]

I'm pretty sure it just looked like he only reached for it. The source is right there, I'll check it again but I suggest you do too.

In the today Times it only says he was holding it not that he pointed it at the cops. Given the tenancy of cops to make up and change stories in the past for now i'm inclined to believe he did not point it at them.

I agree. I looked back on the source and it clearly said it looked like he was reaching for it. He never pointed it at the officer.

[The blood ravens]

I'm pretty sure it just looked like he only reached for it. The source is right there, I'll check it again but I suggest you do too.

In the today Times it only says he was holding it not that he pointed it at the cops. Given the tenancy of cops to make up and change stories in the past for now i'm inclined to believe he did not point it at them.

I believe in the security footage he didn't have the toy gun in his hand when the cops came, but you can see him appear to reach behind his back as if he was reaching for a concealed weapon.

[Huntertopia]

I saw this story, and thought nothing of it. These type of stories are routine in America nowadays. That's really sad.

[Harpers Ferry]

In the today Times it only says he was holding it not that he pointed it at the cops. Given the tenancy of cops to make up and change stories in the past for now i'm inclined to believe he did not point it at them.

I believe in the security footage he didn't have the toy gun in his hand when the cops came, but you can see him appear to reach behind his back as if he was reaching for a concealed weapon.

Then perhaps it wasn't necessary force, but it is hardly murder like many people keep crying out.

[The Lone Star Republics]

It HAD to be racial motivated right? No other possibility?

Of course it was. Sure, you can come up with an explanation for this one and the next one and every one after that. Every instance of a white cop attacking and/or killing black people can be explained. However, when you look at it as a whole and see just how often this sort of thing happens, it stops being a collection of isolated incidents and becomes a trend.

If there are legitimate reason with each, case, the "trend" only becomes a a list of legitimate cases. what should matter is not the races involved, but the actual legal status of each case. when the object of law enforcement becomes to do harm to African-Americans BECAUSE they're African-American, then we have a racist trend.

[The Nihilistic view]

You're supposed to aim in an area where you can maim them at worst not kill them...

It is easy to look down your nose at them when you have probably never been in a situation where your life could possibly end. I have, and it isn't exactly a good atmosphere for intricate thought. Your first thought is not "oh aim for the legs, best to maim rather than kill". And yeah, you can pull the training card and say they should always try and take non lethal shots, but they are people, not robocop.

They manage not to have things like this happen on a weekly basis in other countries. Then the fact that the two cops stood around and did nothing to even attempt to administer first aid is also pretty damming.

[The Lone Star Republics]

It is easy to look down your nose at them when you have probably never been in a situation where your life could possibly end. I have, and it isn't exactly a good atmosphere for intricate thought. Your first thought is not "oh aim for the legs, best to maim rather than kill". And yeah, you can pull the training card and say they should always try and take non lethal shots, but they are people, not robocop.

They manage not to have things like this happen on a weekly basis in other countries. Then the fact that the two cops stood around and did nothing to even attempt to administer first aid is also pretty damming.

they really should have been administering first aid, or attempting to at least. regardless of the validity of the shooting.

[Imperializt Russia]

I wasn't aware there was a land of cleavers.

Cleveland is a city, and what on Earth are cleavers supposed to be?

A cleaver is a kind of large butcher knife.
The title has been misspelt as "Cleaveland".

[The Cobalt Sky]

In the today Times it only says he was holding it not that he pointed it at the cops. Given the tenancy of cops to make up and change stories in the past for now i'm inclined to believe he did not point it at them.

I believe in the security footage he didn't have the toy gun in his hand when the cops came, but you can see him appear to reach behind his back as if he was reaching for a concealed weapon.

Yes. Our point was to tell some people that they were wrong in thinking he had it already out when the police arrived. Several people have already said that he was pointing it at the cop, which clearly wasn't the case.

[The Cobalt Sky]

They manage not to have things like this happen on a weekly basis in other countries. Then the fact that the two cops stood around and did nothing to even attempt to administer first aid is also pretty damming.

they really should have been administering first aid, or attempting to at least. regardless of the validity of the shooting.

I agree with that, at least.

[The Cobalt Sky]

I believe in the security footage he didn't have the toy gun in his hand when the cops came, but you can see him appear to reach behind his back as if he was reaching for a concealed weapon.

Then perhaps it wasn't necessary force, but it is hardly murder like many people keep crying out.

No. It wasn't even clear if that was exactly what he was doing. He just appeared to be reaching for something. The police got way too close to him and didn't even see if they could talk him out of having the gun (which they would soon find out was fake). There wasn't very much time in between when they showed up and when he was shot. There's no audio, so we have no idea if they even said anything to him. He's also a little kid, and they showed no hesitation in gunning him down.

[Oil exporting People]

No. It wasn't even clear if that was exactly what he was doing. He just appeared to be reaching for something.

And that's exactly why the officer shot. The boy had been asked to show his hands, and instead reached for something.

The police got way too close to him and didn't even see if they could talk him out of having the gun (which they would soon find out was fake).

This just confirms my suspicions that you haven't read over what was previously posted. This kid had an airsoft gun, which tend to look extremely realistic and he further added to that by removing the identifying orange tip (That's also possibly illegal, I'm not sure if it is there in Ohio). Even at close range, without the tip it's hard to tell the difference especially if you only have a few seconds to react. Furthermore, anyone who moves to pull or potentially pull a gun or unknown object on you has committed to using lethal action. To attempt to reason with them at that point results in putting your own life and those around you at extreme risk. No one with any amount of common sense will take that chance.

There wasn't very much time in between when they showed up and when he was shot. There's no audio, so we have no idea if they even said anything to him. He's also a little kid, and they showed no hesitation in gunning him down.

He was a 12 year old preteen, not a toddler as your word play would suggest. There has been other children at that age who have been able to fully plan out and execute murder, and regardless, the responding officer did not know his suspect was that age. As well, of course the officer showed no hesitation in shooting for good cause. If he had hesitated and the child had a real firearm in his possession, the cop would've been the one not going home. Again, NO ONE in their right mind is going to hesitate when faced with the potential of someone shooting them. To do would be fatal.

At the end of the day this is still a tragedy, but the only people at fault is the kid and his parents. To blame the cop is to ignore every detail in this case, and is just an expression of unjustified Anti-Police sentiment.

[The Cobalt Sky]

No. It wasn't even clear if that was exactly what he was doing. He just appeared to be reaching for something.

And that's exactly why the officer shot. The boy had been asked to show his hands, and instead reached for something.

The police got way too close to him and didn't even see if they could talk him out of having the gun (which they would soon find out was fake).

This just confirms my suspicions that you haven't read over what was previously posted. This kid had an airsoft gun, which tend to look extremely realistic and he further added to that by removing the identifying orange tip (That's also possibly illegal, I'm not sure if it is there in Ohio). Even at close range, without the tip it's hard to tell the difference especially if you only have a few seconds to react. Furthermore, anyone who moves to pull or potentially pull a gun or unknown object on you has committed to using lethal action. To attempt to reason with them at that point results in putting your own life and those around you at extreme risk. No one with any amount of common sense will take that chance.

There wasn't very much time in between when they showed up and when he was shot. There's no audio, so we have no idea if they even said anything to him. He's also a little kid, and they showed no hesitation in gunning him down.

He was a 12 year old preteen, not a toddler as your word play would suggest. There has been other children at that age who have been able to fully plan out and execute murder, and regardless, the responding officer did not know his suspect was that age. As well, of course the officer showed no hesitation in shooting for good cause. If he had hesitated and the child had a real firearm in his possession, the cop would've been the one not going home. Again, NO ONE in their right mind is going to hesitate when faced with the potential of someone shooting them. To do would be fatal.

At the end of the day this is still a tragedy, but the only people at fault is the kid and his parents. To blame the cop is to ignore every detail in this case, and is just an expression of unjustified Anti-Police sentiment.

There's no audio so we don't know if they actually said anything. Even if someone says he's got a gun, they're supposed to check. Ohio is also open carry, so they should've taken into consideration that the caller might be making things up a little and just gone to see if he really was waving it around, and WHO he really was, since there could've been a chance the caller didn't know his age. They have no idea until they see it themselves. He should not have rushed in gun ablaze.

[Gun Manufacturers]

He was a police officer responding to a report of a person with a gun. When that person refused to obey police orders and tried to draw the gun, he was shot. That last part is irrelevant.

Police in my country do not shoot to kill. They shoot to disarm. Maybe, better Police gun training and gun spotting techniques should of been used.

If you're shooting to disarm, then you don't have justification to shoot. One of the rules of firearms safety is "don't point your firearm at anything you aren't willing to destroy". Also, shooting to disarm (aka shooting to wound) is considered shooting to miss, since limbs are small, fast moving targets compared to center mass. Finally, even a shot in a limb can be fatal. There are several VERY important blood vessels running up/down a person's extremities (such as the radial artery and vein, brachial artery and vein, femoral artery and vein, etc), that if hit, could cause a person to bleed out quickly.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Police in my country do not shoot to kill. They shoot to disarm. Maybe, better Police gun training and gun spotting techniques should of been used.

If you're shooting to disarm, then you don't have justification to shoot. One of the rules of firearms safety is "don't point your firearm at anything you aren't willing to destroy". Also, shooting to disarm (aka shooting to wound) is considered shooting to miss, since limbs are small, fast moving targets compared to center mass. Finally, even a shot in a limb can be fatal. There are several VERY important blood vessels running up/down a person's extremities (such as the radial artery and vein, brachial artery and vein, femoral artery and vein, etc), that if hit, could cause a person to bleed out quickly.

COD mentality > Logic.

*Nods*

Seriously folks, how many fucking times do people have to point out to you that shooting to disarm and such is stupid?

[United Marxist Nations]

And that's exactly why the officer shot. The boy had been asked to show his hands, and instead reached for something.



This just confirms my suspicions that you haven't read over what was previously posted. This kid had an airsoft gun, which tend to look extremely realistic and he further added to that by removing the identifying orange tip (That's also possibly illegal, I'm not sure if it is there in Ohio). Even at close range, without the tip it's hard to tell the difference especially if you only have a few seconds to react. Furthermore, anyone who moves to pull or potentially pull a gun or unknown object on you has committed to using lethal action. To attempt to reason with them at that point results in putting your own life and those around you at extreme risk. No one with any amount of common sense will take that chance.



He was a 12 year old preteen, not a toddler as your word play would suggest. There has been other children at that age who have been able to fully plan out and execute murder, and regardless, the responding officer did not know his suspect was that age. As well, of course the officer showed no hesitation in shooting for good cause. If he had hesitated and the child had a real firearm in his possession, the cop would've been the one not going home. Again, NO ONE in their right mind is going to hesitate when faced with the potential of someone shooting them. To do would be fatal.

At the end of the day this is still a tragedy, but the only people at fault is the kid and his parents. To blame the cop is to ignore every detail in this case, and is just an expression of unjustified Anti-Police sentiment.

There's no audio so we don't know if they actually said anything. Even if someone says he's got a gun, they're supposed to check. Ohio is also open carry, so they should've taken into consideration that the caller might be making things up a little and just gone to see if he really was waving it around, and WHO he really was, since there could've been a chance the caller didn't know his age. They have no idea until they see it themselves. They should not have rushed in guns ablaze.

It should be "he" not "they", as only the one shot him; the source I read said that he was inexperienced, which I have to think certainly contributed.

[Roski]

"Why you can't just say he's a kid (provides examples of very violent acts done by children)"

Here's the problem with your articles:

you're comparing violent crimes to softgun posession.

There's plenty of articles (including one where the police shot a 13 year old Hispanic kid in California for possession of a airsoft Rifle) that you could have selected.

No, I'm not. Those are there specifically to show instances that children can be violent.

"You can't just say he's a kid, because here are instances of 'just kids' murdering people."

That's basically what my post was. Reading helps you, not harms you, I recommend you try it some time.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Here's the problem with your articles:

you're comparing violent crimes to softgun posession.

There's plenty of articles (including one where the police shot a 13 year old Hispanic kid in California for possession of a airsoft Rifle) that you could have selected.

No, I'm not. Those are there specifically to show instances that children can be violent.

"You can't just say he's a kid, because here are instances of 'just kids' murdering people."

That's basically what my post was. Reading helps you, not harms you, I recommend you try it some time.

How does having an airsoft gun makes you a violent murderer?

I suggest you maintain yourself on topic if you don't have a reasonable answer. It helps. You should probably try it, I've heard it cures low communication skills.