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Is the term "Judeo-Christianity" a false narrative?

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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:14 pm

Herskerstad wrote:
Murkwood wrote:I have to disagree. Muslims worship the same God as Christians and Jews, the God of Abraham. They don't accept the Messiah, but they still worship the same God.


Do you think the same God in the bible do the same things as the Allah of the Quran?


According to incompetent literalists, and diehard New Atheists including the pantswetter Richard Dawkins absolutely.

However, if one follows the psychological stages of faith posed by James. W Fowler then I don't see a problem.

Every deity including the monotheist ones (especially the one I worship) has gone through stages of develop (aka Deitic evolution) in how people perceived them.

It would be unrealistic to think peoples perceptions of deities are stagnant.
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Herskerstad
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Postby Herskerstad » Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:21 pm

Benuty wrote:
Herskerstad wrote:
Do you think the same God in the bible do the same things as the Allah of the Quran?


According to incompetent literalists, and diehard New Atheists including the pantswetter Richard Dawkins absolutely.

However, if one follows the psychological stages of faith posed by James. W Fowler then I don't see a problem.

Every deity including the monotheist ones (especially the one I worship) has gone through stages of develop (aka Deitic evolution) in how people perceived them.

It would be unrealistic to think peoples perceptions of deities are stagnant.


I'll extend the same question towards you then in a modified sense. Do you, at any point, think the one worshiped in the most holy of holy wrote the Quran prior to the existence of man, and gave the decrees which eventually formed Islam?
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The Union of the West
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Postby The Union of the West » Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:44 pm

Benuty wrote:
The Union of the West wrote:Do they? The Christian God is three persons, a Trinity. The other two religions see God as one indivisible being.

Not entirely on the first part.

There are Christians who outright reject the trinity or are binitarians, and of course there are Unitarians.

That is true. There are some non-Trinitarian groups. However, the vast majority of Christians are Trinitarians.
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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:55 pm

The Union of the West wrote:
Benuty wrote:Not entirely on the first part.

There are Christians who outright reject the trinity or are binitarians, and of course there are Unitarians.

That is true. There are some non-Trinitarian groups. However, the vast majority of Christians are Trinitarians.

There are other things besides the Trinity that separate the two religions.
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Postby Glorious Freedonia » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:48 pm

I like it but I have heard from my rabbi that it is used to mean Protestant Christian values. I like it because there should be a lot of agreement between our faiths and our two faiths are very compatible with the ideals of our founding fathers.

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Nervium
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Postby Nervium » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:53 am

Menassa wrote:
The Union of the West wrote:That is true. There are some non-Trinitarian groups. However, the vast majority of Christians are Trinitarians.

There are other things besides the Trinity that separate the two religions.


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The United Colonies of Earth
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Postby The United Colonies of Earth » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:56 am

I guess that it is then.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:51 pm

Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:
Geilinor wrote:If Christians are Jewish, does that mean I can call you Jewish? Archeuland and Baughistan is not a Christian fundamentalist, he is a Jewish fundamentalist! No?


Ah, but Jews are merely a sect of Christianity. Or, if you prefer, Christianity a popular sect of Judaism. They are synonymous, in truth.


Considering the massive difference in morals and ideology, I beg to differ.
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Vazdaria
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Postby Vazdaria » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:54 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:
Ah, but Jews are merely a sect of Christianity. Or, if you prefer, Christianity a popular sect of Judaism. They are synonymous, in truth.


Considering the massive difference in morals and ideology, I beg to differ.

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Kalifati Arab shqiptar
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Postby Kalifati Arab shqiptar » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:55 pm

Jews killed Jesus, and they say that he isn't Son of God. Judaism is more likely to be as Islam. I think Christianity is the fake version of Judaism and Islam combined.

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Skinia
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Postby Skinia » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:57 pm

Isn't the term 'judeo-christian' mostly used while referring to God anyway?
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:57 pm

Kalifati Arab shqiptar wrote:Jews killed Jesus, and they say that he isn't Son of God. Judaism is more likely to be as Islam. I think Christianity is the fake version of Judaism and Islam combined.

Since Christianity came before Islam, that makes no sense.
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Kalifati Arab shqiptar
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Postby Kalifati Arab shqiptar » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:57 pm

Skinia wrote:Isn't the term 'judeo-christian' mostly used while referring to God anyway?

???

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:58 pm

Skinia wrote:Isn't the term 'judeo-christian' mostly used while referring to God anyway?


No, it normally refers to values. Judeo-Christian values...which is ironic considering the massive differences between the two.
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Skinia
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Postby Skinia » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:59 pm

Kalifati Arab shqiptar wrote:
Skinia wrote:Isn't the term 'judeo-christian' mostly used while referring to God anyway?

???

As in, 'Judeo-Christian God' or something? That's the only time I've heard anyone use it, anyway.

Neutraligon wrote:
Skinia wrote:Isn't the term 'judeo-christian' mostly used while referring to God anyway?


No, it normally refers to values. Judeo-Christian values...which is ironic considering the massive differences between the two.

Ah, those things.
Last edited by Skinia on Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Alma Mater » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:59 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:
Ah, but Jews are merely a sect of Christianity. Or, if you prefer, Christianity a popular sect of Judaism. They are synonymous, in truth.


Considering the massive difference in morals and ideology, I beg to differ.

Are those differences truly bigger than between many other denominations ?
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Kalifati Arab shqiptar
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Postby Kalifati Arab shqiptar » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:59 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Kalifati Arab shqiptar wrote:Jews killed Jesus, and they say that he isn't Son of God. Judaism is more likely to be as Islam. I think Christianity is the fake version of Judaism and Islam combined.

Since Christianity came before Islam, that makes no sense.

Since Jesus was a jew, that makes sense.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:03 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
Considering the massive difference in morals and ideology, I beg to differ.

Are those differences truly bigger than between many other denominations ?


For the most part yes. For instance, Jews do not believe in hell and god is the source of both good and evil, this creates some big differences in how people think of or react to god. More then that Jews do not believe that sins can be resolved through the actions of another. That is if I do something wrong, the only way it can be fixed is if I make amends. Jesus cannot resolve people of their sins through his death. There are also huge differences in how we view the Messiah.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:04 pm

Kalifati Arab shqiptar wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Since Christianity came before Islam, that makes no sense.

Since Jesus was a jew, that makes sense.

...Not really. Jesus being a Jew has no affect on your statement not making sense. Christianity cannot be Judaism and Islam combined, because when Christianity came into being, there was no Islam.
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AquilaJordyn
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Postby AquilaJordyn » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:06 pm

No. Im catholic, and have a few jewish friends. and honestly, the differences of and major importance are like chocolate chip cookies and oatmeal chocolate chip, there are few. It also reaffirms were supposed to be brothers. I suppose that would make jesus, or perhaps peter the first judeo-christinite.though i do wonder what those who make up the prefix(judeo)think. and forget the radicals, they were annoying in the 1st century, they are now.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:06 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:Are those differences truly bigger than between many other denominations ?


For the most part yes. For instance, Jews do not believe in hell and god is the source of both good and evil, this creates some big differences in how people think of or react to god. More then that Jews do not believe that sins can be resolved through the actions of another. That is if I do something wrong, the only way it can be fixed is if I make amends. Jesus cannot resolve people of their sins through his death. There are also huge differences in how we view the Messiah.


And again: are those differences not found between other denominations of christianity as well ? From the Amish to the WBC, from Mormons to Eastern Orthodox, from Calvinists to Roman Catholics... there are quite a lot of denominations with very, VERY different ideas on rather fundamental concepts. From trinity to evolution, from predestination to the Hate of God for Everything (tm).
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:09 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
For the most part yes. For instance, Jews do not believe in hell and god is the source of both good and evil, this creates some big differences in how people think of or react to god. More then that Jews do not believe that sins can be resolved through the actions of another. That is if I do something wrong, the only way it can be fixed is if I make amends. Jesus cannot resolve people of their sins through his death. There are also huge differences in how we view the Messiah.


And again: are those differences not found between other denominations of christianity as well ? From the Amish to the WBC, from Mormons to Eastern Orthodox, from Calvinists to Roman Catholics... there are quite a lot of denominations with very, VERY different ideas on rather fundamental concepts. From trinity to evolution, from predestination to the Hate of God for Everything (tm).


Shrugs, in the end there is the belief that through Jesus sins were forgiven, a concept that does not exist in Judaism. And the fact that we believe both god and evil come from god, that there is no one fighting god, is a very big difference. Are there sects of Christianity that do not believe in the devil? I have not seen those differences in Christianity, but then I am not acquainted with all or even most versions of Christianity.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tierra Prime
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Postby Tierra Prime » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:14 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:Yes, but only because the other Abrahamic religion in Islam isn't also put in the combo.

Islam is usually considered to be foreign because Muhammad set many unique rules. Most of Christianity has some kind of basis in Judaism, whereas Islam contains a lot of independent ideas.

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Lleu llaw Gyffes
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Postby Lleu llaw Gyffes » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:17 pm

The Union of the West wrote:
Benuty wrote:Not entirely on the first part.

There are Christians who outright reject the trinity or are binitarians, and of course there are Unitarians.

That is true. There are some non-Trinitarian groups. However,n the vast majority of Christians are Trinitarians.

No, all Christians are trinitarians; that is the definition.

BInitarians, monotarians, zeronitarians etc have the right to Freedom of Worship, but they ain't Christians.

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Herskerstad
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Postby Herskerstad » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:42 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Kalifati Arab shqiptar wrote:Since Jesus was a jew, that makes sense.

...Not really. Jesus being a Jew has no affect on your statement not making sense. Christianity cannot be Judaism and Islam combined, because when Christianity came into being, there was no Islam.


That's not what muslims believe. They think figures such as Moses and Abraham were muslims, despite no evidence of such.

Then again, the majority of Islamic historical scholars believe Alexander the Great was an Islamic prophet. I am not even joking about that. The pagan of pagans, with at least one recorded gay lover and enough debauchery to make Babylon shrink in awe, who pretty much was proclaimed an Egyptian deity and this story certainly would not be alien to Arabia, was seemingly refereed to as an Islamic prophet.

Gosh I love Islamic pre-history interpretation. You also got clear figures from fables that one know are false being hailed as the same.
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