What are your political views?

[Skinia]

I love my country
I believe our government should abide by the constitution
I support our troops that defend our liberty at the cost of their lives
I don't believe some nearly naked 40 year old should be allowed to go out into public and wave his balls in my 2 year olds face
I believe in God and Jesus Christs teachings
And I support the 2nd amendment and own a gun

Apparently this makes me a racist far right wing nazi fringe nut.

Extremist Liberals. Being tolerant since never.

Yeppers, generalizations, the only thing the right's good at.

[Fortschritte]

Stop running away from the argument. Yes, the Nazi Party was absolutely insane and atrocious. We can all agree on that, but this debate is focused on what we have yet to agree on, which is "the nazis were radical right wingers."

Ok ok sorry, I understand now after doing a bit of research, the Nazis were far right but I can guarantee you not a single true conservative, and I don't mean the fringe neo nazi skinheads with swastikas tattooed onto their heads would support a nazi party if it were to rise to prominence in America.

If your argument was worded a bit differently, I'd agree. Saying "no true conservative" is a bit of a "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Nobody can objectively determine who is a true conservative and who isn't. Now, I'm sure that most American conservatives reject the idea of Nazism, as do most American liberals.

[Fortschritte]

Extremist Liberals. Being tolerant since never.

Yeppers, generalizations, the only thing the right's good at.

What about increasing debt?

[Akaidia]

I'm a far Left pro (Democratic) Communism (Marxism)

[Skinia]

Yeppers, generalizations, the only thing the right's good at.

What about increasing debt?

That, too. The past two governments in my home country led by a right-wing party have thrown my country's economy to the shitter. Fuck rightists.

[Fortschritte]

What about increasing debt?

That, too. The past two governments in my home country led by a right-wing party have thrown my country's economy to the shitter. Fuck rightists.

Saying "fuck rightists" is a bit stupid. Not all right wingers are bad, and not all right wing world leaders have been terrible. But, from my point of view, right wing governments have often had a negative outcome.

Anyways, what country are you from?

[The Liberated Territories]

So the fact that nobody may intrude in my mind no matter how hard they try does not match up to the definition of a negative right being "the ability to not be subjected to another person or group?" Your logic, I do not see it.

If rights are based on recognition, then if I terminate my agreement to recognize the rights (or laws) of the state, does it imply action or inaction? From what justification do you have to enforce your idea of rights? There is none. It boils down to the will of abstract entities who proclaim self ownership.

Contract; negative right (albeit one that violates other negative rights in the process).

I never claimed anything about negative rights. I simply declared I do not recognize their existence.

Action. You have decided, and acted, to reject your social contract with the State/society that you inhabit. Chances are, you will be punished accordingly.
None. Force, as is always the case in the real world. Abstract ideas and lofty ideologies don't make a State, nor enforce its laws. Force does.

Yes. All rights are given by contract. Or at least societal recognition.

Than what was the first part?

Okay good luck with that.

So what is the motivation to establish a state to enforce it's laws, if there are no rights then there are no rights of states, correct?

There is no contract. You are contradicting yourself.

[Jordsindia]

Extremist Liberals. Being tolerant since never.

Yeppers, generalizations, the only thing the right's good at.

You just contradicted yourself.

[Conscentia]

Does not compute.

How? Where's the problem?

If I knew, then it would compute.

That's not altruism then. Altruism is compulsive.

It being a compulsive action doesn't rule out them doing it for themselves. It doesn't have to be calculated.
I would bet everything I own that if there was no personal satisfaction to be gained in helping old ladies across the street, nobody would do it.

One does not have control over one's compulsions. That's why they compulsions.

[Skinia]

That, too. The past two governments in my home country led by a right-wing party have thrown my country's economy to the shitter. Fuck rightists.

Saying "fuck rightists" is a bit stupid. Not all right wingers are bad, and not all right wing world leaders have been terrible. But, from my point of view, right wing governments have often had a negative outcome.

Anyways, what country are you from?

Take note that the mainstream right-wing in my country is more like center-right in terms of economics. They're libcons.

Oh, it's Finland.

[Zottistan]

What about increasing debt?

That, too. The past two governments in my home country led by a right-wing party have thrown my country's economy to the shitter. Fuck rightists.

One right wing party does not represent all rightists. Aren't radical leftists usually the first to complain when they're thrown in with Stalin and Mao Tze-Tung?

[Skinia]

Yeppers, generalizations, the only thing the right's good at.

You just contradicted yourself.

I kind of meant to.

[Fortschritte]

Saying "fuck rightists" is a bit stupid. Not all right wingers are bad, and not all right wing world leaders have been terrible. But, from my point of view, right wing governments have often had a negative outcome.

Anyways, what country are you from?

Take note that the mainstream right-wing in my country is more like center-right in terms of economics. They're libcons.

Oh, it's Finland.

Finland? Your right wing party, the National Coalition, would be considered quite liberal here in the US. Unfortunately, your nation's one "really right wing party", is a downright racist and xenophobic party. I'm talking about the True Finns, of course.

[Skinia]

That, too. The past two governments in my home country led by a right-wing party have thrown my country's economy to the shitter. Fuck rightists.

One right wing party does not represent all rightists. Aren't radical leftists usually the first to complain when they're thrown in with Stalin and Mao Tze-Tung?

Don't care that much to complain. If people say I'm a stalinist after hearing me say I'm a commie, they're just dumb fucks in need of education.

[Fortschritte]

That, too. The past two governments in my home country led by a right-wing party have thrown my country's economy to the shitter. Fuck rightists.

One right wing party does not represent all rightists. Aren't radical leftists usually the first to complain when they're thrown in with Stalin and Mao Tze-Tung?

Completely agreed. People from all sides of the political spectrum have fucked up. However, more often than not, it's radicals who fuck up.

In short, don't generalize.

[Zottistan]

One right wing party does not represent all rightists. Aren't radical leftists usually the first to complain when they're thrown in with Stalin and Mao Tze-Tung?

Don't care that much to complain. If people say I'm a stalinist after hearing me say I'm a commie, they're just dumb fucks in need of education.

But that logic doesn't extend to the other side of the economic spectrum, I see.

[Olerand]

Than what was the first part?

Okay good luck with that.

So what is the motivation to establish a state to enforce it's laws, if there are no rights then there are no rights of states, correct?

There is no contract. To say that the state has a social contract is to imply positive rights. You are contradicting yourself.

What first part? I rejected the inherent status of rights, and rejected the distinctions between positive and negative rights. That is all.

I don't want to punish you. I couldn't care less if you decide to break the United States' social contract or whatever. I was simply saying that if you lived in such a State/society, you would be punished. Think speaking out under Stalin.

Rights of States are established by force too. States are often founded on an ideological basis, most of the Western world's being variations of liberalism. However, it is not a State's ideology that enforces its laws, and punishes those who violate the social contract. It is force.

Contracts with the State are the rights granted to you by the State, in return for the duties demanded by said State.
In return, you recognize the State, in its rights and duties.

Once again, I categorize "positive" and "negative" rights as rights. All encompassing. No differentiation.
Rights granted by Humans, as in society/the State, and revocable as such. If your State were to exit the UN.

[Skinia]

Take note that the mainstream right-wing in my country is more like center-right in terms of economics. They're libcons.

Oh, it's Finland.

Finland? Your right wing party, the National Coalition, would be considered quite liberal here in the US. Unfortunately, your nation's one "really right wing party", is a downright racist and xenophobic party. I'm talking about the True Finns, of course.

They're not fascist. All they are is a bunch of populist ass-lickers so Soini (the party leader) can fill up his pockets with money. They're too wimpy to ever resort to fascism. Soini tried once by callinf gay marriage 'cultural marxism' to appease to the far right of this country, but he didn't succeed.

[Herrebrugh]

Eh. In reality it hasn't changed a lot. I'm just more aware now what it is I'm actually supporting than I used to be.

Btw: Merry Sinterklaas, kameraad.
(That is the correct Dutch, right?)

It's the feast where we merrily sing about the sack of Sinterklaas, Sinterklaas, Sinterklaas; the sack of Sinterlaas oh boys, boys what a boss

The trick is not to laugh, because it sounds just as wrong in Netherlands as it does in English

[Skinia]

Don't care that much to complain. If people say I'm a stalinist after hearing me say I'm a commie, they're just dumb fucks in need of education.

But that logic doesn't extend to the other side of the economic spectrum, I see.

I said my home country's right-wing's more like a center-right.

[Zottistan]

Finland? Your right wing party, the National Coalition, would be considered quite liberal here in the US. Unfortunately, your nation's one "really right wing party", is a downright racist and xenophobic party. I'm talking about the True Finns, of course.

They're not fascist. All they are is a bunch of populist ass-lickers so Soini (the party leader) can fill up his pockets with money. They're too wimpy to ever resort to fascism. Soini tried once by callinf gay marriage 'cultural marxism' to appease to the far right of this country, but he didn't succeed.

Oh, you meant social rightists? Well god knows I don't want to be defending that lot. My bad.

[Skinia]

They're not fascist. All they are is a bunch of populist ass-lickers so Soini (the party leader) can fill up his pockets with money. They're too wimpy to ever resort to fascism. Soini tried once by callinf gay marriage 'cultural marxism' to appease to the far right of this country, but he didn't succeed.

Oh, you meant social rightists? Well god knows I don't want to be defending that lot. My bad.

Oh fuck me, I even misread the post I was replying to. I need to go to bed.

[Thama]

Oh such a... distressing topic.

My political views, as those of many people, vary according to perspective.

I advocate strict democracy, ludicrous civil freedom, a market socialist economy, and death to all who deny the civil rights of others.

However, if I were placed in charge of a country, then you can expect that political freedom to be lowered significantly.

[Fortschritte]

Oh, you meant social rightists? Well god knows I don't want to be defending that lot. My bad.

Oh fuck me, I even misread the post I was replying to. I need to go to bed.

It's, what, 1am in Finland? Sleeping would probably be wise.

[Skinia]

Oh fuck me, I even misread the post I was replying to. I need to go to bed.

It's, what, 1am in Finland? Sleeping would probably be wise.

1:06, exactly. I misread your post and thought it read 'fascist' but it just read 'racist'. So yeah, bed time. Nighty night.