Ferguson Megathread

[Insaeldor]

Good news everyone! The scanner says that a local Walgreens is on fire. This is justice in action. #justice4mikebrown

No need for bullshit sarcasm. Yoirvreallybthat funny ether. At least I hope your joking.

[New Reading]

And the Missouri grand jury declares that it's acceptable for police to shoot black teenagers for whatever reason as long as they have hands.

How many people sincerely believe if a black cop shot an unarmed white teenager he would have not been indicted either?

With or without several witnesses confirming the officer's story?

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

I suppose I overstated things, then. Apologies for misremembering, I suppose, the conversation I had yesterday. My bad.

Surely, though, we can agree that shooting an unarmed, unarmored man six times is reasonable grounds for the accusation of unreasonable force?

i dunno,

i want to know the timeline and what happened, if mike grabed at the gun and was shot at that time, its reasonable on the cops part. If there was a struggle, some shots were fired during the struggle, (which would be ok) then kid ran, the cop got out of the car and then the kid tried to surrender and was shot an indictment would be reasonable.

remember the kid was twice the cops size, in a fair fight he would have taken the cop apart.

I just...now we'll never know. There's not going to be any closure either way. We don't get to see the facts brought before a jury, the cases argued by competent attorneys, a decision made once and for all...this is basically just saying "fuck it" rather than proving his innocence, and that's what pisses me off. Either the Grand Jury is covering for him, which is admittedly unlikely but not totally impossible, or they honestly thought that a trial would be more costly and frivolous than the fallout from refusing to hold one, in which case I question their dedication to upholding the "order" part of the justice system's "law and order" theme.

[Margno]

That's your opinion.

No that's reality, and an understanding of how burden of proof works.

The state is Reality, everybody.

[Inyourfaceistan]

A war crime?

Being dramatic a bit much?

Killing a surrendered soldier is a war crime. I don't see why it should be any different for Michael Brown, is his life worth less than an enemy combatants?

Do you know for a fact he was surrendering?
Were you on the grand jury?
Did you see all the evidence yourself?
What leads you to the conclusion he was surrendering?

[The balkens]

A war crime?

Being dramatic a bit much?

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I often am, but the murder of civillians by military personnel would be a war crime.

But he isint a soldier.

stating that comparison proves nobodys point but is probably fueling his desire to lynch someone.

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

Law should promote justice, period.

I practiced law for ten years in PA. Our justice system is neither just nor systematic, and the laws have scant connection to justice. If anything, justice is more honored in the breach.

Thank you.

[Jinos]

Fighting =/= Running away.

Had they been soldiers, what Darren Wilson did would be a war crime.

Uhuh.

And running away after assaulting an officer is fleeing a crime scene. Note that Wilson didn't fire until Brown turned and began coming back towards him, likely with intent to fight.

Was a fleeing criminal shot? Nope.

Was a criminal bent on attacking the officer trying to apprehend him shot? Sure seems like it.

Do you people even listen to yourselves? Really? Who in their right mind would charge at someone holding a gun at them, while they were already bleeding from being shot twice?

Not only did Darren Wilson shoot at a fleeing Michael Brown (who was hit in his arm, which caused him to stop and turn around) he shot a surrendering Michael Brown...even as said person was falling down to the ground (which is how the fatal bullet ended up hitting the top of his head).

[Insaeldor]

The people her appear to support the rioting.

Disagreeing with a verdict=/=Support of rioting

[Paddy O Fernature]

If there wasn't enough evidence to warrant an indictment, there damn sure wasn't enough to garner a conviction.

That's your opinion.

And the opinion of the Grand Jury... Imagine that.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Here's what makes me believe that justice was not served:

The usual process when presenting evidence before a grand jury is for the prosecutor to show the evidence that a crime was committed, and to ask for a particular indictment. There is no requirement that a prosecutor give any information that might be considered favorable to the defense, and indeed, it is almost unheard of for a prosecutor to do so. In this case, the prosecutor simply dumped all of the information into their laps, including information that could be seen as favorable to the defense, and gave a laundry list of possible charges. There was no serious attempt to indict. The fact that defense attorneys are not allowed to mount a defense during grand jury proceedings was meaningless in this case, since the prosecutor did their job for them.

I have to say I still disagree with you.
The prosecution very well could have been trying to hit him with any of those laundry lists of charges, or they could have just realized they didn't have a case themselves.

But thank you for giving a rational response to the question.

If they didn't have a case, then they were under no obligation to present it to a grand jury.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I think that is an excellent distinction to make. I think there were many bent on revenge, not justice.

This is, however, not to say that the death of Michael Brown was tragic or that we need to be aware that there are iniquities in how law enforcement in the US tends to handle issues that involve black people, even tangentially.

There are also many who are quite honestly using this as an excuse to just do stupid shit.

Oh, absolutely. All I can add and perhaps this is just bs, but all I can add is that my heart goes out to Michael Brown's family. They lost a loved one.

[Gauthier]

Given the precedent set by Florida and Missouri, I'm surprised the police aren't using live ammunition. Then again maybe there's too many white protestors in the way.

[G-Tech Corporation]

And justice was served.

You know what wasn't? Revenge.

I think that is an excellent distinction to make. I think there were many bent on revenge, not justice.

This is, however, not to say that the death of Michael Brown was tragic or that we need to be aware that there are iniquities in how law enforcement in the US tends to handle issues that involve black people, even tangentially.

Indeed so. Is the US justice system prejudiced against minorities? The preponderance of the evidence would indicate yes. Is this an example of that prejudice? Possibly.

Should Officer Wilson have been crucified for doing his job to satisfy agitated public opinion in certain camps?

I don't think so.

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

If it would serve justice, then yes.

You do realize that is literally what ALL of Western Democracy is against right?

Not really... Look how many times these "western democracies" bullied others into submission and called it justice.

[Asyir]

I did. If the Grand Jury didn't have enough to indict him, why should I, a tax paying citizen, pay to get the same results from a trial? Espeically if my money could go in better places.

Becouse it would serve justice.
Anyhow, let me talk to you again once your kid gets killed by a cop and those random people decide that nothing reallly bad has happend.

My kids won't get killed by cops. They follow the laws.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

And the Missouri grand jury declares that it's acceptable for police to shoot black teenagers for whatever reason as long as they have hands.

How many people sincerely believe if a black cop shot an unarmed white teenager he would have not been indicted either?

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58472 ... l.html.csp


Damn, how does it feel to be wrong?

[The balkens]

Uhuh.

And running away after assaulting an officer is fleeing a crime scene. Note that Wilson didn't fire until Brown turned and began coming back towards him, likely with intent to fight.

Was a fleeing criminal shot? Nope.

Was a criminal bent on attacking the officer trying to apprehend him shot? Sure seems like it.

Do you people even listen to yourselves? Really? Who in their right mind would charge at someone holding a gun at them, while they were already bleeding from being shot twice?

Not only did Darren Wilson shoot at a fleeing Michael Brown (who was hit in his arm, which caused him to stop and turn around) he shot a surrendering Michael Brown...even as said person was falling down to the ground (which is how the fatal bullet ended up hitting the top of his head).

Fucking make an effort to look at the evidence, AND I MEAN PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. not i witnesses.

[Jinos]

Killing a surrendered soldier is a war crime. I don't see why it should be any different for Michael Brown, is his life worth less than an enemy combatants?

Do you know for a fact he was surrendering?
Were you on the grand jury?
Did you see all the evidence yourself?
What leads you to the conclusion he was surrendering?

Video of witnesses on the scene literally show people shouting "Why'd he shoot him! He was putting his hands up!" (paraphrasing here).

I don't see how you need to be any more obvious.

[Southern Arkansas]

Given the precedent set by Florida and Missouri, I'm surprised the police aren't using live ammunition. Then again maybe there's too many white protestors in the way.

You're joking right?

[Kalifati Arab shqiptar]

Good news everyone! The scanner says that a local Walgreens is on fire. This is justice in action. #justice4mikebrown

You're lying.

no he is not. Looting and riots broke out. White male set police car on fire. Shots fired. Choppers in air.

[Margno]

Becouse it would serve justice.
Anyhow, let me talk to you again once your kid gets killed by a cop and those random people decide that nothing reallly bad has happend.

My kids won't get killed by cops. They follow the laws.

So did Trayvon Martin. Didn't help him much.

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

Law should promote justice, period.

And justice was served.

You know what wasn't? Revenge.

Please explain how justice was serverd. A person dead, the one who killed him got to walk off without a trial or anything. I don't know from what backwards country you're from but over here that isn't called justice.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Best summation of why people are upset.

What kind of prosecutor lets the accused testify for his defense at a grand jury?

Seriously, How dare he act so ethically.

That's not acting ethically. That's acting unprofessionally. It's nearly unheard of for prosecutors to do the defense's job for them, and it's evidence that the D.A.'s office never had any desire to fire charges.

[Planita]

Given the precedent set by Florida and Missouri, I'm surprised the police aren't using live ammunition. Then again maybe there's too many white protestors in the way.

yeah no. Don't even think about it, they were clear it WAS (mostly) justified