Ferguson Megathread

[Republic of Coldwater]

Question: if it's considered free speech for teabaggers to speak of violence against government officials, why isn't it considered free speech for Michael Brown's stepfather to say "burn this bitch down"?

Inciting violence I suppose.

Well arguably video games and TV Shows can incite violence, and a lot of things in media encourage the use of violence, yet they aren't being censored. One saying something doesn't mean that they will necessarily do it. When one actually robs or kills, then that is illegal, but when one says such a thing, they aren't necessarily serious and shouldn't be arrested unless they do actions that imply serious undertaking of their aforementioned actions.

[Heco]

Its time for the Military to gun down the rioters. Rioting should not be tolerated.
"I expect my soldiers to shoot at least 500"-Kaiser Wilhelm

[Organized States]

Its time for the Military to gun down the rioters. Rioting should not be tolerated.
"I expect my soldiers to shoot at least 500"-Kaiser Wilhelm

I don't agree with the violence on the previous nights, but they all went home for the holidays and Black Friday sales.

So, not really needed...

[Heco]

Its time for the Military to gun down the rioters. Rioting should not be tolerated.
"I expect my soldiers to shoot at least 500"-Kaiser Wilhelm

I don't agree with the violence on the previous nights, but they all went home for the holidays and Black Friday sales.

So, not really needed...

So then the military should do what the rioters did to them. Only they have tanks and guns.

[The Risen Jaguar Warriors]

Its time for the Military to gun down the rioters. Rioting should not be tolerated.
"I expect my soldiers to shoot at least 500"-Kaiser Wilhelm

I don't agree with the violence on the previous nights, but they all went home for the holidays and Black Friday sales.

So, not really needed...

Ehh... I think all the violence and looting WERE the Black Friday sales...

[Organized States]

I don't agree with the violence on the previous nights, but they all went home for the holidays and Black Friday sales.

So, not really needed...

So then the military should do what the rioters did to them. Only they have tanks and guns.

Yeah, no. That's not the way problems are solved in this country.

[Organized States]

I don't agree with the violence on the previous nights, but they all went home for the holidays and Black Friday sales.

So, not really needed...

Ehh... I think all the violence and looting WERE the Black Friday sales...

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

It does actually explain why people were grabbing the weirdest shit during the looting.

[Heco]

So then the military should do what the rioters did to them. Only they have tanks and guns.

Yeah, no. That's not the way problems are solved in this country.

Should be.

[Organized States]

Yeah, no. That's not the way problems are solved in this country.

Should be.

Why exactly do you want a totalitarian state?

[Insaeldor]

Yeah, no. That's not the way problems are solved in this country.

Should be.

Because shooting your problems just fixes everything right?

Nicolae Ceaușescu Tried that in 89' and it only lead to his death via lynch mob. Viktor Yanukovych Tried the same thing and im pretty sure we know how that ended.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Yeah, that wishing death on the protesters nonsense was already reported, so we can probably ignore that now.

[Greed and Death]

Should be.

Because shooting your problems just fixes everything right?

Nicolae Ceaușescu Tried that in 89' and it only lead to his death via lynch mob. Viktor Yanukovych Tried the same thing and im pretty sure we know how that ended.

It solved Italy's problem with dictator ship though.

[Novorobo]

Question: if it's considered free speech for teabaggers to speak of violence against government officials, why isn't it considered free speech for Michael Brown's stepfather to say "burn this bitch down"?

Because when good, conservative christian souls are speaking of committing violent acts against the government, they are defenders of justice standing up to the evil, demonic forces of liberal fascist communistic dictatorial socialists. When a minority does it, they are an evil thuggish opportunistic chaotic terrorist that hates democracy and feels everyone should work to support their lifestyle like the leech they are, and they are attacking the true defenders of civility, honor and all around champions of democracy, the police. And when the police shoot them for lying about being mistreated, they deserve it, cause, you know, they are just a bunch of good for nothing thugs.

Didn't ya know?

At least, I think that is how conservatives ( where I believe the overwhelming source of most of the support of what I see as police brutality receives come from )see these type of situations.

I'm betting the narrative among at least right-wingers is somewhere along those lines, but even agreement with the message still has no bearing on whether or not it would constitute freedom of speech in particular.

[Gauthier]

Because when good, conservative christian souls are speaking of committing violent acts against the government, they are defenders of justice standing up to the evil, demonic forces of liberal fascist communistic dictatorial socialists. When a minority does it, they are an evil thuggish opportunistic chaotic terrorist that hates democracy and feels everyone should work to support their lifestyle like the leech they are, and they are attacking the true defenders of civility, honor and all around champions of democracy, the police. And when the police shoot them for lying about being mistreated, they deserve it, cause, you know, they are just a bunch of good for nothing thugs.

Didn't ya know?

At least, I think that is how conservatives ( where I believe the overwhelming source of most of the support of what I see as police brutality receives come from )see these type of situations.

I'm betting the narrative among at least right-wingers is somewhere along those lines, but even agreement with the message still has no bearing on whether or not it would constitute freedom of speech in particular.

It also triggers right-wing values placing property above people. Calling for the killing of government officials is no big deal, but "Burn This Bitch Down" is clearly a call for violence against property, so that's considered a capital crime in their minds.

[The Serbian Empire]

I'm betting the narrative among at least right-wingers is somewhere along those lines, but even agreement with the message still has no bearing on whether or not it would constitute freedom of speech in particular.

It also triggers right-wing values placing property above people. Calling for the killing of government officials is no big deal, but "Burn This Bitch Down" is clearly a call for violence against property, so that's considered a capital crime in their minds.

It's one's life work being torched though. Money is power in the US as long as the social safety net is not all-encompassing. With that, violence against property is treated as if it was someone being murdered.

[Ashmoria]

im not sure that that is true. if they had stopped with the stomach-wrenching buildup to the announcement and instead have announced it at 8 am they would have had all day to try to calm the crowds down. after all there were hundreds of ministers there training for peaceful protesting. there likely still would have been some unfortunate incidents but not the massive burning and looting guaranteed by the build up.

of course it would have been much better to appoint an independent prosecutor, have run the grand jury properly, and have the whole thing adjudicated in a public trial even if it exonerated mr Wilson in the end anyway. at least then it would have been obvious why he was acquitted.

If they had bothered to indict, Wilson could have been found Not Guilty and there wouldn't be as much rioting, if any. Just look at Florida. When they finally bothered to arrest and indict George Zimmerman he was found not guilty but was there widespread rioting in Florida? Hell fucking no.

yeah. as our pro-Wilson posters point out it isn't uncommon for black men to get killed in this country. what IS unusual is to have no trial for the person who killed an unarmed black teen. the slap-in-the-face of letting Wilson walk without even having a trial is what made people lose it.

[Ashmoria]

All shots came from the front, he wasn't running away when he was shot.

He wasn't running away when he was hit. The officer fired 12 rounds. Michale brown was hit 8 times (with one possibly being a re-entry). So the officer fired 4-5 shots that didn't hit him. which could quite easily have been fired at him whilst he ran. I.e. at his back.

Indeed, it would explain why he turned around. To surrender to the officer in order to stop him shooting at him.

some of the shots that missed HIT PEOPLE'S HOMES. that's one of the extra reasons why cops who shoot at fleeing suspects need to be fired.

[Ashmoria]

Usually, prosecutors heavily slant the evidence presented to Grand Juries to ensure that an indictment is returned. In this case, it's likely that the prosecutor didn't himself believe himself that he had enough evidence to convict, but because it was such a sensitive case, he released all the evidence to the Grand Jury so they could make up their own minds.

In this case, the Grand Jury, which was unusually presented with all available evidence, decided that the State didn't have enough evidence to convict.

At no point did he question Wilson regarding seeming inconsistencies.

Eyewitness testimony favorable to the defense went unchallenged.

Eyewitness testimony not favorable to the defense was subjected to increased scrutiny.

He had absolutely no intention of bringing this to trial. None. He threw the match.

did you see the Lawrence odonnell discussion of the handout of the statute regarding police use of force? they gave the jury a statute that had parts that were declared unconstitutional back in 1985 and didn't tell the jury. a few weeks later they told the jury that some part of the law had been nullified by the supreme court but didn't tell them WHAT PART. when a juror asked if the supreme court could overrule a state law the assistant district attny didn't say "YES" she said something like "oh don't worry about that"

the old statute had it being legal to shoot a fleeing suspect no matter what he was suspected of.

http://on.msnbc.com/1yjnuBA (I think that's the right link. my internet isn't working well enough to load the video)

[Ashmoria]

Jay Nixon's political career has got to be toast at this point. This boob calls in the national guard a week in advance, has a good 8 hours to deploy the guard (between the announcement that the grand jury had reached a decision and the press conference revealing what the decision was) but at the moment of truth he sits there like a bump on a log and lets chaos reign.

I can't say for sure, but I'm 90% certain that his failure on this was a result of political pressure from some of the same idiots who were handwringing over the response to the lootfest in August.

if he runs for president the democrats could get the racist vote back.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Inciting violence I suppose.

Well arguably video games and TV Shows can incite violence, and a lot of things in media encourage the use of violence, yet they aren't being censored. One saying something doesn't mean that they will necessarily do it. When one actually robs or kills, then that is illegal, but when one says such a thing, they aren't necessarily serious and shouldn't be arrested unless they do actions that imply serious undertaking of their aforementioned actions.

Inciting violence is a real crime around many parts of the world btw.

[Ashmoria]

Ehh... I think all the violence and looting WERE the Black Friday sales...

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

It does actually explain why people were grabbing the weirdest shit during the looting.

its a psychological thing. looting in a riot isn't the same as planning a burglary. they were all worked up, full of adrenaline and out of control.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

He wasn't running away when he was hit. The officer fired 12 rounds. Michale brown was hit 8 times (with one possibly being a re-entry). So the officer fired 4-5 shots that didn't hit him. which could quite easily have been fired at him whilst he ran. I.e. at his back.

Indeed, it would explain why he turned around. To surrender to the officer in order to stop him shooting at him.

some of the shots that missed HIT PEOPLE'S HOMES. that's one of the extra reasons why cops who shoot at fleeing suspects need to be fired.

Meh, if it's a serious crime why not. Aim for the feet/legs and there's not much to worry about. People's homes are generally not underground, you know.

[Ashmoria]

some of the shots that missed HIT PEOPLE'S HOMES. that's one of the extra reasons why cops who shoot at fleeing suspects need to be fired.

Meh, if it's a serious crime why not. Aim for the feet/legs and there's not much to worry about. People's homes are generally not underground, you know.

that's pretty ignorant. ever hear of ricochet? it was the middle of a summer day. there were lots of people on the street. anyone could have been killed.

sure, in a true emergency with a person endangering the lives of those people on the street--by shooting at them, perhaps-- it is justified to shoot to kill in order to save those lives. a kid who made a cop feel like a fool in his squad car? not justified.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

If they had bothered to indict, Wilson could have been found Not Guilty and there wouldn't be as much rioting, if any. Just look at Florida. When they finally bothered to arrest and indict George Zimmerman he was found not guilty but was there widespread rioting in Florida? Hell fucking no.

yeah. as our pro-Wilson posters point out it isn't uncommon for black men to get killed in this country. what IS unusual is to have no trial for the person who killed an unarmed black teen. the slap-in-the-face of letting Wilson walk without even having a trial is what made people lose it.

The part of the narrative of institutionalized killing of blacks or institutionalized "turning a blind eye" that doesn't add up is that it was not the system which failed here: evidence was brought before a grand jury to determine whether or not to indict the cop. Last time I checked a jury is formed not of supposedly corrupt or racist bureaucrats or government employees, but, *gasp* random citizens who are eligible. Yet somehow the police / judiciary are still to blame here for whatever reason amirite?

Is the grand jury anonymous? Is it even all white?

[Ashmoria]

yeah. as our pro-Wilson posters point out it isn't uncommon for black men to get killed in this country. what IS unusual is to have no trial for the person who killed an unarmed black teen. the slap-in-the-face of letting Wilson walk without even having a trial is what made people lose it.

The part of the narrative of institutionalized killing of blacks or institutionalized "turning a blind eye" that doesn't add up is that it was not the system which failed here: evidence was brought before a grand jury to determine whether or not to indict the cop. Last time I checked a jury is formed not of supposedly corrupt or racist bureaucrats or government employees, but, *gasp* random citizens who are eligible. Yet somehow the police / judiciary are still to blame here for whatever reason amirite?

Is the grand jury anonymous? Is it even all white?

the grand jury was 12 people with 3 of them being African American. I don't know anything else about the demographics.

if you believe what you wrote you might want to look up articles on how a grand jury usually works. you will find it very different from what was done in this case.