According to Zimmerman he was acting suspiciously. You seem to automatically assume that's because he was black and nothing else.
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by Jamzmania » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:00 pm
The Alexanderians wrote:"Fear no man or woman,
No matter what their size.
Call upon me,
And I will equalize."
-Engraved on the side of my M1911 .45
by Mavorpen » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:02 pm
by Ripoll » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:04 pm
by Jamzmania » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:06 pm
The Alexanderians wrote:"Fear no man or woman,
No matter what their size.
Call upon me,
And I will equalize."
-Engraved on the side of my M1911 .45
by Emile Zola » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:07 pm
Ripoll wrote:They make reforms when necessary and they fired cops, cracked down on unions, and audited departments. All protesters are doing is fueling unjust generalizations against the law and men in blue the vast majority of whom lay down their lives to protect the common interests of a society. there's a drive by shooting every hour in Milwaukee why don't we protest about that? Why don't we have a war against crime instead of only giving a damn about an issue when it promotes our agenda?
Nobody protesting can name the last 4 victims of crime in those communities.
by Mavorpen » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:08 pm
Ripoll wrote:All protesters are doing is fueling unjust generalizations against the law and men in blue the vast majority of whom lay down their lives to protect the common interests of a society.
Ripoll wrote:there's a drive by shooting every hour in Milwaukee why don't we protest about that?
Ripoll wrote: Why don't we have a war against crime instead of only giving a damn about an issue when it promotes our agenda?
Ripoll wrote:Nobody protesting can name the last 4 victims of crime in those communities.
by Mavorpen » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:09 pm
by Emile Zola » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:10 pm
by The Seleucids (Ancient) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:12 pm
Gig em Aggies wrote:Gauthier wrote:
Because clearly [Fill in Blank] While Black is just a fiction cooked up by social justice warriors and if someone colored gets pulled over by police for any reason whatsoever they need to shut up and bend over, right?
No I mean stop using the color of your skin as an excuse. Like the Martin Zimmerman incident someone automatically assumed it was a white guy who shot a black teen when the "white" guy wasn't white or with the more recent protest I heard people saying it's not about being black it's about police "tyranny" when they holding up signs saying black lives matter if we just stop using the color of our skin as a tool for everyday life then a big majority of fascism will go away. I'm tired of hearing "ethnic quotas" and such
by Ripoll » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:12 pm
Emile Zola wrote:Ripoll wrote:They make reforms when necessary and they fired cops, cracked down on unions, and audited departments. All protesters are doing is fueling unjust generalizations against the law and men in blue the vast majority of whom lay down their lives to protect the common interests of a society. there's a drive by shooting every hour in Milwaukee why don't we protest about that? Why don't we have a war against crime instead of only giving a damn about an issue when it promotes our agenda?
Nobody protesting can name the last 4 victims of crime in those communities.
Wow the irony...
Those meany protestors are generalizing about cops but hey look at black on black crime am I right?
Fucking genius.
by Mavorpen » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:13 pm
by Ripoll » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:15 pm
Mavorpen wrote:Jamzmania wrote:Yeah, but you assume that him being black is the only reason he thought he was suspicious, with no other evidence to back up that claim other than "Trayvon Martin was black."
Because you haven't given me any other reason to believe otherwise. Simply saying "he was acting suspicious" tells me utterly nothing about how he was actually behaving. The natural conclusion, then, given the context, is that he blatantly profiled Trayvon on a racial basis.
by The Seleucids (Ancient) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:17 pm
by Mavorpen » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:18 pm
by Jamzmania » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:18 pm
Mavorpen wrote:Jamzmania wrote:Yeah, but you assume that him being black is the only reason he thought he was suspicious, with no other evidence to back up that claim other than "Trayvon Martin was black."
Because you haven't given me any other reason to believe otherwise. Simply saying "he was acting suspicious" tells me utterly nothing about how he was actually behaving. The natural conclusion, then, given the context, is that he blatantly profiled Trayvon on a racial basis.
Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...
Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...
Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...
Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.
Dispatcher: Okay...
Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.
The Alexanderians wrote:"Fear no man or woman,
No matter what their size.
Call upon me,
And I will equalize."
-Engraved on the side of my M1911 .45
by Mavorpen » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:19 pm
Ripoll wrote:Mavorpen wrote:Because you haven't given me any other reason to believe otherwise. Simply saying "he was acting suspicious" tells me utterly nothing about how he was actually behaving. The natural conclusion, then, given the context, is that he blatantly profiled Trayvon on a racial basis.
The specific case of Ferguson I watched the entire grand jury decision, and frankly I didn't feel there was one thing out of place.
Ripoll wrote:What happened was tragic, but what happens with police brutality in general not always some systematic hate against Black people.
by Mavorpen » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:21 pm
Jamzmania wrote:Mavorpen wrote:Because you haven't given me any other reason to believe otherwise. Simply saying "he was acting suspicious" tells me utterly nothing about how he was actually behaving. The natural conclusion, then, given the context, is that he blatantly profiled Trayvon on a racial basis.
The "natural conclusion" to you, maybe. Here's what Zimmerman told the dispatcher:Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...
Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...
Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...
Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.
Dispatcher: Okay...
Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.
by Jamzmania » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:22 pm
Mavorpen wrote:
So basically, my natural conclusion was correct. Nothing specific describing anything "suspicious" was given. I'm not surprised, as it's hard to be specific when the person isn't actually acting suspicious.
The Alexanderians wrote:"Fear no man or woman,
No matter what their size.
Call upon me,
And I will equalize."
-Engraved on the side of my M1911 .45
by Mavorpen » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:25 pm
Jamzmania wrote:Mavorpen wrote:So basically, my natural conclusion was correct. Nothing specific describing anything "suspicious" was given. I'm not surprised, as it's hard to be specific when the person isn't actually acting suspicious.
You obviously have no intention of accepting anything other than your pre-conceived "natural conclusion."
by Emile Zola » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:28 pm
Jamzmania wrote:Mavorpen wrote:So basically, my natural conclusion was correct. Nothing specific describing anything "suspicious" was given. I'm not surprised, as it's hard to be specific when the person isn't actually acting suspicious.
You obviously have no intention of accepting anything other than your pre-conceived "natural conclusion."
by Alien Space Bats » Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:08 am
Ripoll wrote:Why don't we have a war against crime instead of only giving a damn about an issue when it promotes our agenda?
by Nazi Flower Power » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:04 am
Jamzmania wrote:Mavorpen wrote:Because you haven't given me any other reason to believe otherwise. Simply saying "he was acting suspicious" tells me utterly nothing about how he was actually behaving. The natural conclusion, then, given the context, is that he blatantly profiled Trayvon on a racial basis.
The "natural conclusion" to you, maybe. Here's what Zimmerman told the dispatcher:Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...
Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...
Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...
Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.
Dispatcher: Okay...
Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.
by DnalweN acilbupeR » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:39 am
Alien Space Bats wrote:snip
We see (mostly young) black boys and men as INHERENTLY dangerous, whether they ACTUALLY are or not; and then we react to that (mis)perceived danger with lethal force; and THEN we only rarely ever punish those who kill them, because we share the same inherent prejudice, and therefore see their "caution" as "understandable". Each of these three things is a travesty, but all three together are an outrage.
But the worst part is this: When the black community and their allies get upset about this state of affairs, we accuse THEM of racism. THEY'RE the "race hustlers", trying to "excuse everything" by "griping" about racism (which we all know is strictly a thing of the past, right?). Why can't these people "accept responsibility for their actions" (IOW, accept that if other people see them as "scary" and kill them because of it, it's THEIR fault)?
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.
by DnalweN acilbupeR » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:54 am
Mavorpen wrote:Alien Space Bats wrote:... And?
<pause>
Look, living in Southeastern Michigan and married to a Greek-American woman from Chicago, I can tell you that you don't have to be a "hillbilly/redneck KKK"-type white to be a thoroughgoing racist. There are LOTS of Hyphenated-American whites who suffer the disease. My wife's grandfather, a Greek immigrant, despised "n-gg-rs", and his is not the only tale of racist expression I have heard coming out of the Greek community. Detroit's famous Hamtramck neighborhood was massively Polish until racial prejudice-driven white flight emptied out almost all of its white population. I grew up with Serbian-Americans who had a very dim view of blacks, and have heard tales of racist sentiment among their Croatian-American counterparts in Chicago. And are we REALLY supposed to believe that Italian-Americans are above racism?
Not every racist in American is named Billy Bob Cracker. There are lots of racist Millers and Jorgensens and O'Malleys and Kowalskis and Banaceks and Malkoviches and Fontinis; that's one reason why I think that the argument that George Zimmerman "couldn't POSSIBLY have been racist" because he was (half) Hispanic more than a little idiotic.
Besides, as I have said here for close to a year now, unless someone is a declared white supremacist/separatist, it's inappropriate (and counterproductive) to call them a racist. Why? Because it rather misses the point: It's not racist PEOPLE who are the problem; it's racist ATTITUDES, racist IDEAS, and racist BEHAVIOR that are hurting us so badly. Once we realize that people who AREN'T racist can harbor ATTITUDES and IDEAS that ARE (eg., people who listen to rap music are "thugs", black men are inherently criminally dangerous who possess preternatural strength (and can therefore only be safely controlled through the use of overwhelming force [eg., a chokehold] or — worse — become so uncontrollably dangerous in a confrontation that shooting them is the only way to stay alive), black women are natural inclined towards promiscuity and are careless/thoughtless when it comes to child-rearing (hence, the "welfare mama" meme [which has, strangely, now utterly displaced the older "Aunt Jemima" meme], blacks would rather steal or take handouts than work, blacks much more likely to be drug addicts than anybody else, people who wear hoodies and/or baggy jeans are worthy of suspicion, etc., etc., etc.), THEN AND ONLY THEN will we actually begin to start making progress towards eliminating racism in America.
IOW, it's not a certain kind of person that's the problem; it's a certain set of attitudes, and even people who swear (and fervently BELIEVE) they're not racists can (and often do) both cling to and perpetuate said attitudes.
As it stands, we can't even have serious, in depth discussions about race in the mainstream. If you bring up white privilege, the response is, " why do you believe all white people go around calling black people the n word and actively discriminate against them?!" If you bring up racial bias in the criminal justice system, the response is "why do you believe all white cops are KKK members looking for an excuse to hunt down and shoot black people!?" It's a less flashy method of parroting "anti-racist is a code word for anti-white!" where if you recognize that any white person can hold racist beliefs, you must therefore believe that all white people are racists who might as well belong to the KKK.
And it reaches the level where it ends up being a childish refusal to accept responsibility for anything involving race. And so you get terms like "white guilt," where they convince themselves that they don't contribute to the problem. Of course they can't. They aren't racist. They don't belong to a white supremacy group. To recognize their own prejudices and biases is to admit to contributing to the problem. To admit to contributing to the problem is to admit to guilt. And to admit to being guilty places them on the same level as slave owners, since they were the ones responsible for the hardships black people face. The Western interpretation of "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" right about sums it up.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.
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