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Ferguson Megathread

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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Murkwood
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Giuliani: Ferguson is a 'significant exception'

Postby Murkwood » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:11 pm

So, it looks like former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani is back in the spotlight.

Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani touched of a tense debate with Georgetown professor Michael Eric Dyson when he suggested that the media was devoting too much attention to the Michael Brown killing.

Giuliani said that incidents of white police officers shooting black men is a “significant exception” to the rule.

“I find it very disappointing that you’re not discussing the fact that 93 percent of blacks in America [who are murdered] are killed by other blacks,” the former Republican presidential candidate said on Meet the Press.

Dyson countered that Giuliani was making a “false equivalency,” saying that “black people who kill black people go to jail; white people who are policemen who kill black people do not go to jail.”

“It is the reason for the heavy police presence in the black community,” Giuliani countered. “So why don’t you cut it down so that so many white police forces don’t have to be in black areas?”

As NBC’s Chuck Todd shut down the conversation, Dyson told Giuliani that his arguments revealed “the defensive mechanism of white supremacy at work in your mind.”

Before ending the segment, Todd turned to Anthony Gray, the attorney for Brown’s family, and asked if he was “confident” that protests in Ferguson would remain peaceful.

“I’m not” Gray replied. “I’m hopeful that there will be peace in Ferguson and I’m prayerful that peace will reign.”


Reactions to Giuliani's statements have been varied, from extremely supportive to extremely negative. What do you, denizens of NSG, think of Giuliani's statement?

I wholeheartedly agree with him. The media blows up when a black person is killed by a non-black person, but they ignore the major problem of black-on-black crime, a tragedy of immense proportions.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:13 pm

The grand jury has not even come back yet isn't a little early to be blaming this on the cop.
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Condunum
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Postby Condunum » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:15 pm

The issue isn't that a white person shot a black person, it's that a white cop shot a black person and the police department he is part of helped obfuscate the issue to avoid possible clear justice. The issue is not that this is one incident, but one incident in a series of both racial and non racial police brutality
Last edited by Condunum on Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:19 pm

greed and death wrote:The grand jury has not even come back yet isn't a little early to be blaming this on the cop.

Not for the race hustlers.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:19 pm

Condunum wrote:The issue isn't that a white person shot a black person, it's that a white cop shot a black person and the police department he is part of helped obfuscate the issue to avoid possible clear justice. The issue is not that this is one incident, but one incident in a series of both racial and non racial police brutality

It has been brought before a grand jury I do not know what more one would want at this point.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
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Kanaria
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Postby Kanaria » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:22 pm

Murkwood wrote:So, it looks like former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani is back in the spotlight.

Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani touched of a tense debate with Georgetown professor Michael Eric Dyson when he suggested that the media was devoting too much attention to the Michael Brown killing.

Giuliani said that incidents of white police officers shooting black men is a “significant exception” to the rule.

“I find it very disappointing that you’re not discussing the fact that 93 percent of blacks in America [who are murdered] are killed by other blacks,” the former Republican presidential candidate said on Meet the Press.

Dyson countered that Giuliani was making a “false equivalency,” saying that “black people who kill black people go to jail; white people who are policemen who kill black people do not go to jail.”

“It is the reason for the heavy police presence in the black community,” Giuliani countered. “So why don’t you cut it down so that so many white police forces don’t have to be in black areas?”

As NBC’s Chuck Todd shut down the conversation, Dyson told Giuliani that his arguments revealed “the defensive mechanism of white supremacy at work in your mind.”

Before ending the segment, Todd turned to Anthony Gray, the attorney for Brown’s family, and asked if he was “confident” that protests in Ferguson would remain peaceful.

“I’m not” Gray replied. “I’m hopeful that there will be peace in Ferguson and I’m prayerful that peace will reign.”


Reactions to Giuliani's statements have been varied, from extremely supportive to extremely negative. What do you, denizens of NSG, think of Giuliani's statement?

I wholeheartedly agree with him. The media blows up when a black person is killed by a non-black person, but they ignore the major problem of black-on-black crime, a tragedy of immense proportions.

Shootings in Toledo don't cause riots, unless it's a cop and an unarmed black guy and the cops hide as many details as they can regarding the case.
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Kelinfort
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Postby Kelinfort » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:26 pm

The micro aggressions between the police and African Americans never went away. So why do we keep pretending society has advanced past racism?

Police officers should meet directly with the communities they serve. Attend community mass, gatherings, football games. Meet the people and tell them you're their to protect them and address their concerns. End the war on drugs unilaterally and address the underlying issues of poverty with crime. Build more parks and recreations. Finally, build a sense of community and build the police force as a force for good, not an enemy to be feared.

If we wish for a nation divided, if we wish for dissatisfaction amongst poor black youths in this country, and if we wish for this to happen every year, continue to do nothing.

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Kelinfort
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Postby Kelinfort » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:27 pm

greed and death wrote:
Condunum wrote:The issue isn't that a white person shot a black person, it's that a white cop shot a black person and the police department he is part of helped obfuscate the issue to avoid possible clear justice. The issue is not that this is one incident, but one incident in a series of both racial and non racial police brutality

It has been brought before a grand jury I do not know what more one would want at this point.

No one's rioting.

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Islamic State of UKIP
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Founded: Nov 16, 2014
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Postby Islamic State of UKIP » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:27 pm

The issue isn't white vs black. The issue is massive corruption within the police there and a bloody crackdown on peaceful protests. If the police acted like adults and let the protests happen like they are legally required to by this Constitution thing then the protests never would have turned to violence. The police have committed an equal or greater number of wrongs here and hopefully justice will be served on the entire department. Sorry, but if you have to call in the national guard to reign in the police then there is an obvious issue with the thugs and hoodlums within the department

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:27 pm

greed and death wrote:
Condunum wrote:The issue isn't that a white person shot a black person, it's that a white cop shot a black person and the police department he is part of helped obfuscate the issue to avoid possible clear justice. The issue is not that this is one incident, but one incident in a series of both racial and non racial police brutality

It has been brought before a grand jury I do not know what more one would want at this point.

Being accused by Al Sharpton carries the Death Penalty. *nods*
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Avenio
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Postby Avenio » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:41 pm

Murkwood wrote:I wholeheartedly agree with him. The media blows up when a black person is killed by a non-black person, but they ignore the major problem of black-on-black crime, a tragedy of immense proportions.


And what, is the media's ignorance of African-American poverty supposed to make situations like Ferguson less important? Hardly. Especially considering that you wouldn't give two shits about 'black-on-black' crime if it weren't a convenient shield right now to deflect attention away from system issues in police forces.

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Harpers Ferry
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Postby Harpers Ferry » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:42 pm

Islamic State of UKIP wrote:The issue isn't white vs black. The issue is massive corruption within the police there and a bloody crackdown on peaceful protests. If the police acted like adults and let the protests happen like they are legally required to by this Constitution thing then the protests never would have turned to violence. The police have committed an equal or greater number of wrongs here and hopefully justice will be served on the entire department. Sorry, but if you have to call in the national guard to reign in the police then there is an obvious issue with the thugs and hoodlums within the department

Yeah, the police dis allow peaceful protests. Having my home vandalized is not "peaceful" protesting. There were many who used the outrage as an excuse to do these things and that is what the police actually cracked down on, and justifiably so. I think you need to learn a bit more about the issue at hand here.
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Degenerate Heart of HetRio
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Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:45 pm

Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Of course it's corruption AND racism AND the cop is guilt AND people are hiding it AND many in Missouri still have a mentality stuck before the 1960s.
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Tubbsalot
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Postby Tubbsalot » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:53 pm

This is a fucking moronic thing to say.

"Sure, police officers kill blacks without punishment, but most blacks don't die that way, so who gives a shit? It only matters if it's relevant to the majority. Other things I don't care about: rape, murder, theft, poverty, homelessness, mental illness, cancer, slavery, and pretty much literally everything!"
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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:01 pm

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Of course it's corruption AND racism AND the cop is guilt AND people are hiding it AND many in Missouri still have a mentality stuck before the 1960s.

First off, I love you too.

Secondly, how do you know he is guilty? Only the Grand Jury can decide.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Harpers Ferry
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Founded: Nov 19, 2014
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Postby Harpers Ferry » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:03 pm

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Of course it's corruption AND racism AND the cop is guilt AND people are hiding it AND many in Missouri still have a mentality stuck before the 1960s.

Care to prove any of these accusations? Especially the one about us still being ardent racists?
Kingdom of Viana wrote:I don't need specific evidence to prove something that is obviously true.
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Degenerate Heart of HetRio
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Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:05 pm

Harpers Ferry wrote:
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Of course it's corruption AND racism AND the cop is guilt AND people are hiding it AND many in Missouri still have a mentality stuck before the 1960s.

Care to prove any of these accusations? Especially the one about us still being ardent racists?

My best friend is from Arkansas and they said so. As a person from Rio de Janeiro I trust the great parochial cause.

(Yes, of course there is racism in conservative American states. Duh!)
Last edited by Degenerate Heart of HetRio on Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

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Degenerate Heart of HetRio
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Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:07 pm

Murkwood wrote:Secondly, how do you know he is guilty? Only the Grand Jury can decide.

Honestly if he was innocent, would they drag the issue so much?
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

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Harpers Ferry
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Postby Harpers Ferry » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:07 pm

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:
Harpers Ferry wrote:Care to prove any of these accusations? Especially the one about us still being ardent racists?

My best friend is from Arkansas and they said so. As a person from Rio de Janeiro I trust the great parochial cause.

And the guy down the street from me says Bigfoot exists. I'm guessing this means you have no proof and are making unfounded accusations based on the heresay of a random citizen of Arkansas.
Kingdom of Viana wrote:I don't need specific evidence to prove something that is obviously true.
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Harpers Ferry
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Postby Harpers Ferry » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:09 pm

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:
Harpers Ferry wrote:Care to prove any of these accusations? Especially the one about us still being ardent racists?

My best friend is from Arkansas and they said so. As a person from Rio de Janeiro I trust the great parochial cause.

(Yes, of course there is racism in conservative American states. Duh!)

There is racism in Oregon and other liberal states too, your point being?
Kingdom of Viana wrote:I don't need specific evidence to prove something that is obviously true.
NSG's Bloody Sunday, a date which shall live in infamy.

The Doors

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Degenerate Heart of HetRio
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Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:09 pm

Harpers Ferry wrote:
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:My best friend is from Arkansas and they said so. As a person from Rio de Janeiro I trust the great parochial cause.

And the guy down the street from me says Bigfoot exists. I'm guessing this means you have no proof and are making unfounded accusations based on the heresay of a random citizen of Arkansas.

Yes. I trust their opinions on almost all stuff, though. So I might ask later. When I'm arsed to log on in Facebook anyway.
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

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Harpers Ferry
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Postby Harpers Ferry » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:10 pm

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:
Harpers Ferry wrote:And the guy down the street from me says Bigfoot exists. I'm guessing this means you have no proof and are making unfounded accusations based on the heresay of a random citizen of Arkansas.

Yes. I trust their opinions on almost all stuff, though. So I might ask later. When I'm arsed to log on in Facebook anyway.

Well you shouldn't. Because that is a gross generalization and you should realize that. I fail to see how a random guy in Arkansas is suddenly infalliable in his statements about us.
Last edited by Harpers Ferry on Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kingdom of Viana wrote:I don't need specific evidence to prove something that is obviously true.
NSG's Bloody Sunday, a date which shall live in infamy.

The Doors

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:13 pm

Harpers Ferry wrote:
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Yes. I trust their opinions on almost all stuff, though. So I might ask later. When I'm arsed to log on in Facebook anyway.

Well you shouldn't. Because that is a gross generalization and you should realize that. I fail to see how a random guy in Arkansas is suddenly infalliable in his statements about us.

Dunno, I'm from Arkansas and I see a lot of casual racism.

Of course, I see a lot of casual racism in a lot of places.
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Degenerate Heart of HetRio
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Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:14 pm

Harpers Ferry wrote:Well you shouldn't. Because that is a gross generalization and you should realize that. I fail to see how a random guy in Arkansas is suddenly infalliable in his statements about us.

Misgendering is ugly, mmkay?
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

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Blazedtown
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Postby Blazedtown » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:16 pm

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:
Harpers Ferry wrote:Well you shouldn't. Because that is a gross generalization and you should realize that. I fail to see how a random guy in Arkansas is suddenly infalliable in his statements about us.

Misgendering is ugly, mmkay?


And he was suppose to magically know the gender of your friend? Quit trying to pick fights over non issues, you tend to do that a lot.
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