Transgender woman correctly buried as man?

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

No, my gender's name is recklesscisboywrecker ^_^

I would hug you, but I'm afraid you'd wreck me.

You're always welcome, Liri.

[Hasuut Inu Tlomaq]

I'm a bisexual male, I like girls, I like guys, but IMHO I am a male without question. (and not buying into all the macho crap either) I really don't get the transgender thing, but a lot of people I know don't get the bisexual thing either. So, we are in some way kindred.

What I do object to is the family deciding this in clear opposition to what were the obvious wishes of the deceased, even if she didn 't have a legal document. Technically the family does have the legal right but IMHO not the moral. I'm comparing it to a situation I knew with an elderly relative of a friend in OH. The man lived and died as a loyal, active member of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, but his nearest of kin at death was his daughter who had become a Jehovah's Witness. She had him buried as a JW, much to the consternation of the rest of the relatives. Legally, she had the right to do this but it was obvious to anyone who knew the man that he would not have wanted it. Likewise in the case of this woman who obviously--VISIBLY--wanted to live as a woman. If anything, this is an egregious insult to her memory.

[Geanna]

EDIT: The OP has been edited for necessary corrections. The OP's apologies for the original, and any misunderstandings that may (will) arise.


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 55600.html

A transgender woman who died in Florida was buried open casket as a man, in a suit with a man's haircut, and given the obituary of a man, listing the bank she worked at and the Church she went to as a child. It used the pronoun "him" for her.

Is that right?

A funeral is a ceremony to gather in love, honor, and respect for the people we cared about most. It doesn't have to be reduced to just a chance for us to be reminded that we are going to judgment by God and it is wrong for boys to wear panties. Honoring life was what the ceremony should have been about, an act of love and loss that should be about the deceased and their wishes.

The obituary was technically correct but managed to omit the vital facts, rather like a legal response. Her transgender status, or even the fact that she was a woman in the eyes of the person who knew her best (herself), was omitted. Her parents (or whoever made this decision) apparently would be ashamed by everyone knowing she was beautiful brave woman who made one of the most painful but profoundly truthful transformations that a person can undergo.

If they had buried her as a woman that would have been sacrificing their own wants just because they loved her, and that's what Jesus taught.

Anyway, that's the topic of discussion and my opinion. There is an obnoxious prick in a loud jacket watching this news story about this transgender woman with me as I write this, and he's telling me that we should "road trip to Florida, fill the trunk of the caddy with a shovel, a nice dress, and 200 kg of post-mortem Maybelline".

Btw, if anybody lives in Florida and would take a little money to put some makeup and hair products and leave them at a specific location at a specific time once a year, telegram.

No poll. Just please read before you respond.

Well - I've lost my faith in humanity, and need a drink. This is disgusting.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Reality is subjective.

For example, I could say reality about people like you, but that'd be flaming...

The universe and third dimension you exist in says otherwise.

How cute! They don't believe in genders outside the dominant colonial Western narrative, but call me deluded for something I actually I experience? Ohhhh, what a sweet bun.

[Simply Tyrone]

EDIT: The OP has been edited for necessary corrections. The OP's apologies for the original, and any misunderstandings that may (will) arise.


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 55600.html

A transgender woman who died in Florida was buried open casket as a man, in a suit with a man's haircut, and given the obituary of a man, listing the bank she worked at and the Church she went to as a child. It used the pronoun "him" for her.

Is that right?

A funeral is a ceremony to gather in love, honor, and respect for the people we cared about most. It doesn't have to be reduced to just a chance for us to be reminded that we are going to judgment by God and it is wrong for boys to wear panties. Honoring life was what the ceremony should have been about, an act of love and loss that should be about the deceased and their wishes.

The obituary was technically correct but managed to omit the vital facts, rather like a legal response. Her transgender status, or even the fact that she was a woman in the eyes of the person who knew her best (herself), was omitted. Her parents (or whoever made this decision) apparently would be ashamed by everyone knowing she was beautiful brave woman who made one of the most painful but profoundly truthful transformations that a person can undergo.

If they had buried her as a woman that would have been sacrificing their own wants just because they loved her, and that's what Jesus taught.

Anyway, that's the topic of discussion and my opinion. There is an obnoxious prick in a loud jacket watching this news story about this transgender woman with me as I write this, and he's telling me that we should "road trip to Florida, fill the trunk of the caddy with a shovel, a nice dress, and 200 kg of post-mortem Maybelline".

Btw, if anybody lives in Florida and would take a little money to put some makeup and hair products and leave them at a specific location at a specific time once a year, telegram.

No poll. Just please read before you respond.

Well - I've lost my faith in humanity, and need a drink. This is disgusting.

If this is disgusting to you, the mass deaths in Iraq are passable.

[The New World Oceania]

Reality is subjective.

For example, I could say reality about people like you, but that'd be flaming...

The universe and third dimension you exist in says otherwise.

Teleology, social constructivism, deconstruction, and antipositivism say otherwise. I beg you stop pretending you can use "teh reel pruvin sience" in sociology and continental philosophy. The Frankfurt School will end you.

[Kanaria]

Reality is subjective.

For example, I could say reality about people like you, but that'd be flaming...

The universe and third dimension you exist in says otherwise.

Well, we really don't know if there's a universe or three dimensions without our sensory organs. Of course, accepting this and keeping it a conscious fact in one's mind can be terrifying, so we don't think about that.

[Araksasya]

I'm a bisexual male, I like girls, I like guys, but IMHO I am a male without question. (and not buying into all the macho crap either) I really don't get the transgender thing, but a lot of people I know don't get the bisexual thing either. So, we are in some way kindred.

What I do object to is the family deciding this in clear opposition to what were the obvious wishes of the deceased, even if she didn 't have a legal document. Technically the family does have the legal right but IMHO not the moral. I'm comparing it to a situation I knew with an elderly relative of a friend in OH. The man lived and died as a loyal, active member of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, but his nearest of kin at death was his daughter who had become a Jehovah's Witness. She had him buried as a JW, much to the consternation of the rest of the relatives. Legally, she had the right to do this but it was obvious to anyone who knew the man that he would not have wanted it. More so in the case of this woman who obviously--VISIBLY--wanted to live as a woman. If anything, this is an egregious insult to her memory.

I feel the same way, why is everyone afraid of diversity.

[Simply Tyrone]

The universe and third dimension you exist in says otherwise.

How cute! They don't believe in genders outside the dominant colonial Western narrative, but call me deluded for something I actually I experience? Ohhhh, what a sweet bun.

Do you live in Kadath?

[New Frenco Empire]

I'm sorry. Does the existence of DNA somehow negate the existence of gender dysphoria and the different social-cultural conceptions of sex and gender?

No?

Then why do you waste your time picspamming?

Parrotting the same simplistic "argument" (and I put the word between quotation marks because it's barely more than the lazy repetition of a single concept over and over and over) won't win you any points here.

Because putting one pic is picspamming. Put more time by at least acknowledging the slaughter in Syria, rather than crying about "muh trans rites" and sitting at your computer doing absolutely nothing.

'Donated, before you start.

I could have sworn that the human brain was capable of multitasking. I'm sure crying about trans rights in one thread and the brutality of ISIS in another is doable, but you know...

[Simply Tyrone]

I'm a bisexual male, I like girls, I like guys, but IMHO I am a male without question. (and not buying into all the macho crap either) I really don't get the transgender thing, but a lot of people I know don't get the bisexual thing either. So, we are in some way kindred.

What I do object to is the family deciding this in clear opposition to what were the obvious wishes of the deceased, even if she didn 't have a legal document. Technically the family does have the legal right but IMHO not the moral. I'm comparing it to a situation I knew with an elderly relative of a friend in OH. The man lived and died as a loyal, active member of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, but his nearest of kin at death was his daughter who had become a Jehovah's Witness. She had him buried as a JW, much to the consternation of the rest of the relatives. Legally, she had the right to do this but it was obvious to anyone who knew the man that he would not have wanted it. More so in the case of this woman who obviously--VISIBLY--wanted to live as a woman. If anything, this is an egregious insult to her memory.

I feel the same way, why is everyone afraid of diversity.

Diversity promotes inequality.

Right?

[Kanaria]

Well - I've lost my faith in humanity, and need a drink. This is disgusting.

If this is disgusting to you, the mass deaths in Iraq are passable.

That...
Non sequitur.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Do you live in Kadath?

No, Brazil.

People of genders besides male and female exist here since time immemorial.

[Spoder]

Those are not views those are insults! All I can say is just wow, like why, why?

Those are not not insults; those are reality.

Male sex: Having distinguishable male gentalia and XY chromosomes.

Female sex: Having distinguishable female sex and XX chromosomes.

Intersex: Everything else.

While I cannot wrap my head around the whole "dyadic testicular" system HetRio speaks of, I do believe our understanding of sex needs to be revamped.

Oh, and gender and sex are two different things. One is physical gentalia and genetics, the other is intangible and a matter of self-identity.

[Simply Tyrone]

Because putting one pic is picspamming. Put more time by at least acknowledging the slaughter in Syria, rather than crying about "muh trans rites" and sitting at your computer doing absolutely nothing.

'Donated, before you start.

I could have sworn that the human brain was capable of multitasking. I'm sure crying about trans rights in one thread and the brutality of ISIS in another is doable, but you know...

They are, but the sheer exaggeration and the sheer amount of fervent defence on this topic signals otherwise.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Diversity promotes inequality.

Right?

Who says that?

[Grenartia]

EDIT: The OP has been edited for necessary corrections. The OP's apologies for the original, and any misunderstandings that may (will) arise.


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 55600.html

A transgender woman who died in Florida was buried open casket as a man, in a suit with a man's haircut, and given the obituary of a man, listing the bank she worked at and the Church she went to as a child. It used the pronoun "him" for her.

Is that right?

A funeral is a ceremony to gather in love, honor, and respect for the people we cared about most. It doesn't have to be reduced to just a chance for us to be reminded that we are going to judgment by God and it is wrong for boys to wear panties. Honoring life was what the ceremony should have been about, an act of love and loss that should be about the deceased and their wishes.

The obituary was technically correct but managed to omit the vital facts, rather like a legal response. Her transgender status, or even the fact that she was a woman in the eyes of the person who knew her best (herself), was omitted. Her parents (or whoever made this decision) apparently would be ashamed by everyone knowing she was beautiful brave woman who made one of the most painful but profoundly truthful transformations that a person can undergo.

If they had buried her as a woman that would have been sacrificing their own wants just because they loved her, and that's what Jesus taught.

Anyway, that's the topic of discussion and my opinion. There is an obnoxious prick in a loud jacket watching this news story about this transgender woman with me as I write this, and he's telling me that we should "road trip to Florida, fill the trunk of the caddy with a shovel, a nice dress, and 200 kg of post-mortem Maybelline".

Btw, if anybody lives in Florida and would take a little money to put some makeup and hair products and leave them at a specific location at a specific time once a year, telegram.

No poll. Just please read before you respond.

Unfortunately this happens all to often. Fuck transphobia.

Why can't people just respect others' gender identities? Like, its not "political correctness", its basic common fucking courtesy, people.

[Nei Pennsilfaani]

I'm sorry. Does the existence of DNA somehow negate the existence of gender dysphoria and the different social-cultural conceptions of sex and gender?

No?

Then why do you waste your time picspamming?

Parrotting the same simplistic "argument" (and I put the word between quotation marks because it's barely more than the lazy repetition of a single concept over and over and over) won't win you any points here.

Because putting one pic is picspamming. Put more time by at least acknowledging the slaughter in Syria, rather than crying about "muh trans rites" and sitting at your computer doing absolutely nothing.

'Donated, before you start.

"But someone has it worse!" does not an argument make. By your logic, we shouldn't care about people in Syria because there are children starving in Africa.

Here is an absolutely shocking notion: any abuse of human rights is a travesty, and even more shocking: people can multitask standing up for transgender equality does not make someone incapable of acknowledging and acting towards a better world in other respects. Besides, asking someone to acknowledge every human rights abuse in existence is patently absurd. I know you care about what's happening in Syria, but why haven't you addressed Ebola, starving kids, and gang violence in Mexico?

[Vashta Nerada]

That's debatable, since some forms of transsexualism do seem to have biological roots.

It does, but that doesn't make it right. There are natural born killers, those who are naturally addicted to pain, and those who naturally view children as an acceptable target for romantic relationships. Apples are natural, but I highly doubt you'd eat one if it had a growth coming out of the side.

Only if you abide by the misconception that our gender assigned at birth is the only legitimate gender. Granted, it's a very common misconception, deeply ingrained in your culture, thanks to the sexist gender binary that Christianity imposed during most of its history.

Like I mentioned before, you don't have to be a Christian or even religious to accept that there are two genders in the majority of species on this planet. To attribute a view to a single religion that doesn't even represent the rest of the global borders on foolishness. A Buddhist knows the difference between a man and a woman. The same goes for a Muslim, Taoist, and Hindu. Even an atheist knows the difference. Most Russians are irreligious, but they believe homosexuality is wrong. Are you going to blame that on atheism now?

I agree. Going through transition doesn't make a transgender woman a woman. Identifying as one does. The objective of transition is not "making" a transgender woman a woman, but to accomodate said woman's body to her gender identity. In this regard, transition is one recommended form of treatment for gender dysphoria.

The man believed he was a woman. If he wanted to be buried as one, then that should have been something he prepared for beforehand. Unforeseen events prevented him from doing that, so his family got involved. Not my problem.

No. You just need to be ignorant about a very sensitive topic and too proud to question your ignorance and realize it's hurtful, not just to yourself, but to others as well.

Once again, not a problem I worry myself with. I know enough about the subject to criticize it. Your average atheist doesn't know a thing about the Bible, but blames God for everything. Ignorance goes both ways.

I obviously disagree with this sentence in its entirety, but it must be said that your phrasing makes the underlying social-cultural mores that condition your opinion all the more blatant. I find it rather sad that you would thoughtlessly internalize them and use them, instead of actually giving critical thinking a chance.

You don't know me from squat. I find it equally disappointing that you believe I would state my opinion on the subject without having thought about it. I have thought about it, and the topic is stupid as is any complaining about the subject.

I would question exactly what "mindset" you are speaking of, but I'm just going to point out that, by definition, a transgender woman does have the "natural mindset" of a woman. That's the reason why they experience gender dysphoria.

It's like telling a Stephen Hawking that he isn't human because humans can walk and are sapient. The first one is an irrelevant requirement for humanhood, and the second is one that he actually does meet. You can't get away with it.

Walking isn't a requirement for humanhood since every human alive couldn't walk when they were born. Does that now mean that every infant and toddler isn't a human because they have not yet learned to walk?

Obviously, human gender identity and cars work the exact same way, otherwise this would be a profoundly stupid analogy that would offend any living being with a modicum of sapience.

It's a metaphor. If you don't get it, then that is more your problem than my own. I gave an example to demonstrate the fact that a person cannot dress themselves up as something they are not. A white man can't pretend to be a black man. He'd be called a racist and run out of town.

Am I the only one who finds it quite sad that transphobes have to resort to this sort of dishonest naturalism, thus negating the structure and phenomena in the human mind (one of our most defining traits as a species) any value over our inborn genitalia, just to argue against the legitimacy of people whose gender identity does not match the gender they were assigned at birth?

I mean, what sort of people would treat the human mind, the very foundation of our individual identity, so poorly, just to oppress a minority who doesn't conform to their internalized social-cultural mores?

I have a penis and therefore I am a man. I have two eyes and therefore am not a cyclopes. Trying to negate nature as a valid reasoning point is tantamount to deny the very base of your own argument. You state a transsexual is born with the mindset of a man or a woman, but then state using natural as a point of argument is hypocritical and therefore invalid. As a result, the very core of your argument has be destroyed by you yourself. If I thought I could fly and tried to jump off a building, people would say I was crazy. If I tried to stab a guy because I thought he was Satan, people would still say I was crazy. Having a mindset doesn't mean that it is the correct mindset. Your argument has no wings.

[Kanaria]

I feel the same way, why is everyone afraid of diversity.

Diversity promotes inequality.

Right?

Fear and hatred promote inequality, seizing on the first opportunity to make themselves apparent, and persisting as success rises.

[New Frenco Empire]

I could have sworn that the human brain was capable of multitasking. I'm sure crying about trans rights in one thread and the brutality of ISIS in another is doable, but you know...

They are, but the sheer exaggeration and the sheer amount of fervent defence on this topic signals otherwise.

"You feel passionate about this issue, ergo, you must love ISIS!"

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

They are, but the sheer exaggeration and the sheer amount of fervent defence on this topic signals otherwise.

Because some people are actually advocating for tragedies to happen, both as the actual aggression their own transphobia directly causes and the indirect effects of its reproduction in society.

[The New World Oceania]

I feel the same way, why is everyone afraid of diversity.

Diversity promotes inequality.

Right?

Yes. Where binary oppositions exist, one is inherently privileged.

[Simply Tyrone]

If this is disgusting to you, the mass deaths in Iraq are passable.

That...
Non sequitur.

Pretty bene sequitur.

[Simply Tyrone]

Diversity promotes inequality.

Right?

Yes. Where binary oppositions exist, one is inherently privileged.

No, not unless you define it as such.

Even if we could achieve a unitive opinion and definition of everything, division WILL always happen.