Secularism: Good or Bad?

[Icrum]

Why is A&B hurting my brain? He's making me, a fellow Christian, very disappointed in him.

Same.

Honestly, I do not understand fundamentalists.

They make us good Christians look bad. Ugh……..

Why A&B, you make me look bad!

[Ikania]

Separation of church and state.

Ok I'm buying you a dictionary for Christmas.

Read the Constitution, it's not in there.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
There. Plain and simple. No favoring or disfavoring one religion over the other.

EDIT: Already saw your first response.

There is a difference between Respecting and Concerning. Concerning means on the subject of. Respecting means treating favorably. And no matter how you think it's worded, it's obvious that the intentions and arguably words were meant to prevent a theocracy.

[Seno Zhou Varada]

Typical hypocrite Christians here in this thread (Ken Ham flag guy) who support Christian Theocracy but not an Islamic one.

Double Standards FTW?

Hey man, don't lump me in the same group as Acheuland and Baughistan. I don't appreciate that.

I'm not

[Ararat Mountain]

Some people mistake secularism as encouraged state atheism.

I am not Athiest but I think that would not be a bad thing

State atheism=VERY BAD VERY VERY VERY VERY BADDDD

Secularism= As a non-denominational Christian, I am ok with this, as long as it is secularism not state atheism.

[Deral]

One that has been supported by the Supreme Court several times over. And as the Supreme Court is the supreme authority on interpreting the Constitution, I'd say that it is more than just a theory.

Pro tip, friend, since you're new - engaging A&B in debate is like debating a Jack Chick finger puppet. You'll just end up mumbling to yourself about nothing sensible while your finger is up someone's butt.

Why would my finger be...? On second thought, I do NOT want to know.

[Senyosu]

Good. My preferred version of secularism is French-style laïcité. Religion should not be an element of public life - politics, government, the public service, etc. The state should not favour any religion nor irreligion. It should just abstain from involvement in religious affairs.

Kind of hypocritical of the French, when they are banning hijabs and shit. But otherwise I'd agree with that policy.

It was the Burqa. And the fact that they called a niqab a burqa was fucking hilarious.

Niqabs are veils. Burqas are walking tents.

Also my choice of secularism would be closer to Turkish Kemalism, or Indonesian Pancasila (which isn't but is secularism, and it would work for Muslim majority or plurality nations well).

[Utceforp]

One that has been supported by the Supreme Court several times over. And as the Supreme Court is the supreme authority on interpreting the Constitution, I'd say that it is more than just a theory.

a game theory?

[Olerand]

Good. My preferred version of secularism is French-style laïcité. Religion should not be an element of public life - politics, government, the public service, etc. The state should not favour any religion nor irreligion. It should just abstain from involvement in religious affairs.

Kind of hypocritical of the French, when they are banning hijabs and shit. But otherwise I'd agree with that policy.

Only in State institutions. Hijabs, crosses, whatevers are not appropriate in State and laïque organisms.

[Kalifati Arab shqiptar]

Typical hypocrite Christians here in this thread (Ken Ham flag guy) who support Christian Theocracy but not an Islamic one.

Double Standards FTW?

Hey man, don't lump me in the same group as Acheuland and Baughistan. I don't appreciate that.

I can't find Ken Ham in your flag. It was meant only for A&B

[The Orson Empire]

Hey man, don't lump me in the same group as Acheuland and Baughistan. I don't appreciate that.

You down with the Theocracy bro?

Hell no. I do not want to force my religion on others. I do not believe that this is what Jesus would have wanted Christians to do.

Same.

Honestly, I do not understand fundamentalists.

They make us good Christians look bad. Ugh……..

Why A&B, you make me look bad!

Yes, they do. And the worst thing is that I sometimes get lumped in the same group as fundamentalists, even though I am not one.

[Senyosu]

a game theory?

oh god

[Icrum]

a game theory?

So did I.

[Kalifati Arab shqiptar]

a game theory?

thanks for watching!

[Twilight Imperium]

Pro tip, friend, since you're new - engaging A&B in debate is like debating a Jack Chick finger puppet. You'll just end up mumbling to yourself about nothing sensible while your finger is up someone's butt.

Why would my finger be...? On second thought, I do NOT want to know.

Exactly.

[Kelinfort]

Except the Fourteenth Amendment incorporated the provisions of the Bill of Rights to apply to state and local governments. So no, the states cannot become theocratic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporat ... _of_Rights

That's one long and enduring theory about interpreting the Constitution.

Precedents ahoy!

1947, first case concerning separation of church and state; supporting bussing for children to private religious schools and declaring that states were required to provide the same guarantees of religious freedom as the federal government
1948, banning religious instruction in public schools
1952, allowing religious instruction off school property during regular school hours
1962, banning teacher-led prayer from public schools
1963, banning Bible-reading and the recital of the Lord's Prayer in public schools
1973, allowing state funding for textbooks and teachers' salaries in religious schools; creating the Lemon test
1987, declared the Creation Act invalid, which had mandated the teaching of Creation if Evolution was taught
1989, banning religious displays depicting only one religion
1992, banning prayers given by clergy as a part of an official public school graduation ceremony.

[Icrum]

thanks for watching!

SUPER AMAZING END CARD TOURNAMENT!

It's not that amazing.

[Utceforp]

Read the Constitution, it's not in there.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
There. Plain and simple. No favoring or disfavoring one religion over the other.

A&B has already "refuted" that earlier in the thread.

[Arana]

Secularism is definitely good. It allows everyone to follow whatever religion they choose to follow, without intervention from the state. What could be wrong with that?

And for the record, I am a Christian.

[Olerand]

Kind of hypocritical of the French, when they are banning hijabs and shit. But otherwise I'd agree with that policy.

It was the Burqa. And the fact that they called a niqab a burqa was fucking hilarious.

Niqabs are veils. Burqas are walking tents.

Also my choice of secularism would be closer to Turkish Kemalism, or Indonesian Pancasila (which isn't but is secularism, and it would work for Muslim majority or plurality nations well).

Turkish laïcité is dead. Just today, the Turkish government has announced that it will be opening mosques on all public universities.

Turkish laïcité lacked the popular support, and institutional strength of laïcité in France. Its existence was always temporary, as are all similar programs.

[The Orson Empire]

Secularism is definitely good. It allows everyone to follow whatever religion they choose to follow, without intervention from the state. What could be wrong with that?

And for the record, I am a Christian.

Ahh yes, another fellow Christian whose opinions are reasonable.

[Utceforp]

-Ignore-

[Senyosu]

It was the Burqa. And the fact that they called a niqab a burqa was fucking hilarious.

Niqabs are veils. Burqas are walking tents.

Also my choice of secularism would be closer to Turkish Kemalism, or Indonesian Pancasila (which isn't but is secularism, and it would work for Muslim majority or plurality nations well).

Turkish laïcité is dead. Just today, the Turkish government has announced that it will be opening mosques on all public universities.

Turkish laïcité lacked the popular support, and institutional strength of laïcité in France. Its existence was always temporary, as are all similar programs.

It's still not a bad model if followed without contradictions.

[Kalifati Arab shqiptar]

Secularism is definitely good. It allows everyone to follow whatever religion they choose to follow, without intervention from the state. What could be wrong with that?

And for the record, I am a Christian.

So that makes you special?

[Twilight Imperium]

It's still not a bad model if followed without contradictions.

You could say the same about Communism, you know.

[Icrum]

Secularism is definitely good. It allows everyone to follow whatever religion they choose to follow, without intervention from the state. What could be wrong with that?

And for the record, I am a Christian.

Ahh yes, another fellow Christian whose opinions are reasonable.

WOO! We are reasonable!