"Get Off Of My Side!": Embarrassing Allies

[Solaray]

Hardcore fundamentalists and religious zealots. Make the rest of us religious folk look bad.

[Geilinor]

Straight couples holding hands in the street? Guys talking about their girlfriends at school? What perverts! No wonder their families would disown them!

Two words. Pride Parade.

When straight couples march near-naked in parades and make out to get attention on tacky floats while waving inflatable phallic imagry and mocking or putting down their primary dissidents, I'll consider taking your ludicrous claim that it's the same seriously.

Straight couples marching for what?

[The Romulan Republic]

I tend to oppose censorship of hate speech/offensive ideas (though I am quite opposed to things like death threats), so I end up being on the same side (on this issue) as fucking neo-Nazis and other bigots. This is annoying. Part of why I want them to be allowed to express their ideas is so I know who they are and can argue with them and insult them.

Also, pro-space program conservative nuts are a case of this. Jesus Christ.

[Novus America]

Straight couples holding hands in the street? Guys talking about their girlfriends at school? What perverts! No wonder their families would disown them!

Two words. Pride Parade.

When straight couples march near-naked in parades and make out to get attention on tacky floats while waving inflatable phallic imagry and mocking or putting down their primary dissidents, I'll consider taking your ludicrous claim that it's the same seriously.

I can relate to this. I support LGBT rights, but some of these "Gay Pride Groups" can definitely be embarrassing allies that hurt rather than help the cause of LGBT rights.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Two words. Pride Parade.

When straight couples march near-naked in parades and make out to get attention on tacky floats while waving inflatable phallic imagry and mocking or putting down their primary dissidents, I'll consider taking your ludicrous claim that it's the same seriously.

I can relate to this. I support LGBT rights, but some of these "Gay Pride Groups" can definitely be embarrassing allies that hurt rather than help the cause of LGBT rights.

'
Ah, the unspeakable dullness of respectability politics.

[Olivaero]

Oh and leftists that believe in pseudosciences, like transhumanism.

In order for transhumanism to be a pseudoscience it would need to make some claim that it (The philosophy of Transhumanism) is a science as in a study of something but not in fact use the scientific method to attain results Tanshumanism studies nothing, it formed in reaction to certain trends and is presented by some of it's adherents as the logical continuation of human society but that is not the same as pretending to be scientific study. You might as well call Communism a pseudoscience and it would make as much sense.

[The Liberated Territories]

I tend to oppose censorship of hate speech/offensive ideas (though I am quite opposed to things like death threats), so I end up being on the same side (on this issue) as fucking neo-Nazis and other bigots. This is annoying. Part of why I want them to be allowed to express their ideas is so I know who they are and can argue with them and insult them.

Also, pro-space program conservative nuts are a case of this. Jesus Christ.

And me. Yet I am no nazi. Well, at least not to moderates.

[Novus America]

I can relate to this. I support LGBT rights, but some of these "Gay Pride Groups" can definitely be embarrassing allies that hurt rather than help the cause of LGBT rights.

'
Ah, the unspeakable dullness of respectability politics.

You have to consider that parading in your underwear waving dildos probably reinforces rather than dispels negative views of of LGBT people. Respectability politics might be dull, but if your goal is to be respected, well you have to be respectable.

If in the interest of being exciting you hurt your cause that is counter productive.

I support non-partisan democracy, if I explain it respectably people usually say, "that is not a bad idea".
If jump around in a gorilla suit waving a sign saying "Non-partisan democracy NOW!, nobody will say non-partisan democracy is a good idea, they will say "this guy is a total idiot" and worse they will associate non-partisan democracy with idiots.

You have to keep your end goal in mind.

You can still use humor, satire, etc. to get your point across.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

'
Ah, the unspeakable dullness of respectability politics.

You have to consider that parading in your underwear waving dildos probably reinforces rather than dispels negative views of of LGBT people. Respectability politics might be dull, but if your goal is to be respected, well you have to be respectable.

If in the interest of being exciting you hurt your cause that is counter productive.

I support non-partisan democracy, if I explain it respectably people usually say, "that is not a bad idea".
If jump around in a gorilla suit waving a sign saying "Non-partisan democracy NOW!, nobody will say non-partisan democracy is a good idea, they will say "this guy is a total idiot" and worse they will associate non-partisan democracy with idiots.

You have to keep your end goal in mind.

You can still use humor, satire, etc. to get your point across.

When you're expressing your right to not be discriminated against based upon sexual orientation, sex is going to enter into the discussion. If you're allowing the opposition to determine what is an appropriate manner of expression, then you've allowed them to set the terms of the debate, and you've betrayed much of the richness of the LGBT subculture in the process.

[Grand Russian Federation]

Those who support Stalin.

It was a Socialist state working towards Communism.

This guy, for example...

Stalin sucked. He was the reason Russia failed early on against Germany and wasn't a scientific power. Herp derp, purge all the people who know how to fight a war!

And i want to add, Simo Hayha shouldn't feel proud about his kills, who were tons of greens who Stalin sent to die.

[Camelza]

This fucking guy.

He is Panagiotis Lafazanis, founding member of the Coaliation of the Radical Left, aka "Syriza" and a staunch Trotskyist.
I don't have a problem with his beliefs as much as I have with the damage that the loud and vocal expression of his beliefs do to the efforts of the party to become the next government.
Syriza has turned lately into a more moderate party and his old-guard revolutionary attitude and rhetoric are just scaring away centrist voters.
If he could just shut up about his beloved "people's armed struggle" and exporting the revolution...

[Nazi Flower Power]

Two words. Pride Parade.

When straight couples march near-naked in parades and make out to get attention on tacky floats while waving inflatable phallic imagry and mocking or putting down their primary dissidents, I'll consider taking your ludicrous claim that it's the same seriously.

I can relate to this. I support LGBT rights, but some of these "Gay Pride Groups" can definitely be embarrassing allies that hurt rather than help the cause of LGBT rights.

Tacky phallic floats are hilarious, not embarrassing. If parading around like that makes some people feel better about themselves, then what's the problem?

[Novus America]

You have to consider that parading in your underwear waving dildos probably reinforces rather than dispels negative views of of LGBT people. Respectability politics might be dull, but if your goal is to be respected, well you have to be respectable.

If in the interest of being exciting you hurt your cause that is counter productive.

I support non-partisan democracy, if I explain it respectably people usually say, "that is not a bad idea".
If jump around in a gorilla suit waving a sign saying "Non-partisan democracy NOW!, nobody will say non-partisan democracy is a good idea, they will say "this guy is a total idiot" and worse they will associate non-partisan democracy with idiots.

You have to keep your end goal in mind.

You can still use humor, satire, etc. to get your point across.

When you're expressing your right to not be discriminated against based upon sexual orientation, sex is going to enter into the discussion. If you're allowing the opposition to determine what is an appropriate manner of expression, then you've allowed them to set the terms of the debate, and you've betrayed much of the richness of the LGBT subculture in the process.

I have no problem with discussing sex, although sex is a subject you should approach carefully because it is sensitive to most people. However parading in your underwear is not discussing sex. A giant inflatable sex organ is not discussing anything, it is just juvenile. What do these things accomplish?

Who is the "opposition"? The majority of Americans are not. So what again are you accomplishing? I mean trolling the Westboro types is entertaining (they will never have a positive view of LGBT individuals anyway), but going out of your way to offend those opposed that can be reasoned with is very counterproductive. The majority of Americans used to oppose LGTB rights but now support. It was the respectable politics, not the pride parades that convinced them.

Also what is the LGBT sub-culture anyway? I mean the LGBT community is hardly monolithic. And none of the LGBT people I know are part of any "sub-culture", they just want to live their lives. Especially transgendered individuals, most of whom just want to be respected for who they are, and do not want to scream "I am transgendered" in your face. Most transgender individuals do not want to be seen as a different sub culture, or different in anyway. Most transgendered women just wanted to be treated like any other women.

That is the problem with the militant in your face gay pride types. (You can be proud and open but not militant, and respectful of the opinions of others). Their aims and goals are actually contrary to the goals of most LGBT people. They in many cases actually hurt or offend other LGBT people. If you want to have a gay pride parade you can do it in a manner that does not hurt the community's image. Pushing others away is not productive, and remember most LGTB individuals want to be accepted and integrated into the rest of society, not separated from it.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

When you're expressing your right to not be discriminated against based upon sexual orientation, sex is going to enter into the discussion. If you're allowing the opposition to determine what is an appropriate manner of expression, then you've allowed them to set the terms of the debate, and you've betrayed much of the richness of the LGBT subculture in the process.

I have no problem with discussing sex, although sex is a subject you should approach carefully because it is sensitive to most people. However parading in your underwear is not discussing sex. A giant inflatable sex organ is not discussing anything, it is just juvenile. What do these things accomplish?

It's a celebration of sexual freedom. Without sexual freedom, LGBT rights would not exist.

Who is the "opposition"? The majority of Americans are not. So what again are you accomplishing? I mean trolling the Westboro types is entertaining (they will never have a positive view of LGBT individuals anyway), but going out of your way to offend those opposed that can be reasoned with is very counterproductive. The majority of Americans used to oppose LGTB rights but now support. It was the respectable politics, not the pride parades that convinced them.

Well, I'm not accomplishing anything in particular, since it's not my fight except as an ally. Why do you think that the more overtly sexual displays are designed by those going out of their way to offend? Why not ask why people are offended by a certain level of silliness instead? Why is it up to LGBT people to fit a heteronormative stereotype?

Also, without the parades, the "respectable" supporters would't have been there. The entire modern era of LGBT rights activism started with the Stonewall riots, which were largely led by flamboyant drag queens.

Also what is the LGBT sub-culture anyway? I mean the LGBT community is hardly monolithic. And none of the LGBT people I know are part of any "sub-culture", they just want to live their lives. Especially transgendered individuals, most of whom just want to be respected for who they are, and do not want to scream "I am transgendered" in your face. Most transgender individuals do not want to be seen as a different sub culture, or different in anyway. Most transgendered women just wanted to be treated like any other women.

I'd like your source for how most transgendered people feel.

That is the problem with the militant in your face gay pride types. (You can be proud and open but not militant, and respectful of the opinions of others). Their aims and goals are actually contrary to the goals of most LGBT people. They in many cases actually hurt or offend other LGBT people. If you want to have a gay pride parade you can do it in a manner that does not hurt the community's image. Pushing others away is not productive, and remember most LGTB individuals want to be accepted and integrated into the rest of society, not separated from it.

Again, "most". Again, I need a source.

[Avenio]

Two words. Pride Parade.

When straight couples march near-naked in parades and make out to get attention on tacky floats while waving inflatable phallic imagry and mocking or putting down their primary dissidents, I'll consider taking your ludicrous claim that it's the same seriously.

I can relate to this. I support LGBT rights, but some of these "Gay Pride Groups" can definitely be embarrassing allies that hurt rather than help the cause of LGBT rights.

Y'know, at one point I actually agreed with you, as a gay person coming to terms with their identity. I wasn't entirely comfortable with the very public way such parades demonstrated sexuality, and was concerned about how it would turn away potential allies due to the in-your-face nature of the marches.

Then I started reading about cases where LGTB people were hurt, publicly, and sometimes even killed for having the temerity to do things like hold hands with their significant others or wear makeup. They weren't doing anything to attract attention to themselves, and certainly weren't provoking people into attacking them, and yet they were still attacked. All this shit about being nice, quiet, inoffensive LGTB people got them nothing.

I came to the conclusion that people that get offended or stick their noses up at pride parades or a little skin aren't worth having as allies anyway. Pride parades are by LGTB people and for LGTB people first and foremost, and are a celebration of everything we've had to go through as a movement, and if that offends a few prudes and homophobes along the way, well, that's just fine by me.

[The Union of the West]

As a libertarian, I wish the conspiracy theorists would go away.

[Jinwoy]

As a libertarian, I wish the conspiracy theorists would go away.

Do you believe states should be free to decide gay rights?
If yes, goto GOP

[Imasin]

I tend to oppose censorship of hate speech/offensive ideas (though I am quite opposed to things like death threats), so I end up being on the same side (on this issue) as fucking neo-Nazis and other bigots. This is annoying. Part of why I want them to be allowed to express their ideas is so I know who they are and can argue with them and insult them.

Also, pro-space program conservative nuts are a case of this. Jesus Christ.

I know what you mean... those homos...

[Nazi Flower Power]

I can relate to this. I support LGBT rights, but some of these "Gay Pride Groups" can definitely be embarrassing allies that hurt rather than help the cause of LGBT rights.

Y'know, at one point I actually agreed with you, as a gay person coming to terms with their identity. I wasn't entirely comfortable with the very public way such parades demonstrated sexuality, and was concerned about how it would turn away potential allies due to the in-your-face nature of the marches.

Then I started reading about cases where LGTB people were hurt, publicly, and sometimes even killed for having the temerity to do things like hold hands with their significant others or wear makeup. They weren't doing anything to attract attention to themselves, and certainly weren't provoking people into attacking them, and yet they were still attacked. All this shit about being nice, quiet, inoffensive LGTB people got them nothing.

I came to the conclusion that people that get offended or stick their noses up at pride parades or a little skin aren't worth having as allies anyway. Pride parades are by LGTB people and for LGTB people first and foremost, and are a celebration of everything we've had to go through as a movement, and if that offends a few prudes and homophobes along the way, well, that's just fine by me.

I can be pretty prudish sometimes, but I still think the parades are fine. The ones I saw in Boston when I lived there were generally gaudy and flamboyant, but not outright obscene. If some dude wants to go strutting around Government Center in a bikini, sequins, and feathers, that is not harmful to anyone. It's just comical.

[Laerod]

Straight couples holding hands in the street? Guys talking about their girlfriends at school? What perverts! No wonder their families would disown them!

Two words. Pride Parade.

When straight couples march near-naked in parades and make out to get attention on tacky floats while waving inflatable phallic imagry and mocking or putting down their primary dissidents, I'll consider taking your ludicrous claim that it's the same seriously.

You mean Brazilian carnival every year?

[Roski]

You know, I consider myself a rightist, but there are two people who piss me off to no end.

First off: Neal Boortz.

He's a fucktard (pardon my German) who needs to figure the fuck out what side he's on.

The next: Donald Trump.

What in the fuck do you mean that people who have tried to help those poor souls in fucking Africa with Ebola deserve to stay in Africa and get treatment there.

[Rocopurr]

Social justice warriors. Y'all know I'm all about social justice, but I can't stand anyone who takes their beliefs to the extreme.

[Norstal]

Hardcore fundamentalists and religious zealots. Make the rest of us religious folk look bad.

If they make you look bad then maybe you shouldn't be on their side then...

[Laerod]

He's a fucktard (pardon my German)

German might be a versatile language but it has never invented a word even remotely equivalent to fucktard u_u

[Soviet Haaregrad]

The next: Donald Trump.

What in the fuck do you mean that people who have tried to help those poor souls in fucking Africa with Ebola deserve to stay in Africa and get treatment there.

Finding yourself on the same side of an issue as Donald Trump is typically a good sign one should review their stance on said issue.