The morality of homosexuality

[Iniika]

The US was founded by Christians. The people who came here and built this country from the ground up believed in a higher power. We shouldnt change the foundation of our laws and our society just because "progressives" want to.


For this reason, no to gay "marriage".

This post makes my eyes burn.

*draws eyes back onto your eyelids in magic marker*

It's all right, I suspect its a puppet troll of some sort. I don't have the stomach lining left to get irritated at every last one of them.

[Conservative Leaders]

The US was founded by Christians. The people who came here and built this country from the ground up believed in a higher power. We shouldnt change the foundation of our laws and our society just because "progressives" want to.


For this reason, no to gay "marriage".

This post makes my eyes burn.

*draws eyes back onto your eyelids in magic marker*

It's all right, I suspect its a puppet troll of some sort. I don't have the stomach lining left to get irritated at every last one of them.

I support the principles this great nation was founded on, therefore Im a troll?

What is it with this place where conservatives who care about this country are trolls.

[Humanist Secularism]

The US was founded by Christians. The people who came here and built this country from the ground up believed in a higher power. We shouldnt change the foundation of our laws and our society just because "progressives" want to.


For this reason, no to gay "marriage".

This post makes my eyes burn.

*draws eyes back onto your eyelids in magic marker*

It's all right, I suspect its a puppet troll of some sort. I don't have the stomach lining left to get irritated at every last one of them.

I support the principles this great nation was founded on, therefore Im a troll?

What is it with this place where conservatives who care about this country are trolls.

Fine, I'll bite.

The US was founded by Christians.

Even if that was the case, it doesn't matter as it was founded for the purpose of religious freedom. Gawd and Zombie Jebus and the Holy Sprite had nothing to do with it.

The people who came here and built this country from the ground up believed in a higher power.

I'm sure they also believed in many things other than that, but that doesn't change the fact that it was founded as a secular nation.

We shouldnt change the foundation of our laws and our society just because "progressives" want to.

Yes, stupid progressives. With their stupid beliefs that everyone should be equal. Damn them for destroyin' our segregation and slavery and laws forbidding women to vote. Don't they know that "all men are created equal" doesn't apply to homomasexuals?

For this reason

What reason? That some now-old guys existed at one point in time? That progress and equality is bad?

"marriage"

Are you implying that gays who are married aren't really married?

[Betapeg]

The US was founded by Christians. The people who came here and built this country from the ground up believed in a higher power. We shouldnt change the foundation of our laws and our society just because "progressives" want to.

For this reason, no to gay "marriage".

I support the principles this great nation was founded on, therefore Im a troll?

What is it with this place where conservatives who care about this country are trolls.

I am diametrically opposed to your ideology, but whoever calls you a troll for simply expressing your point of view is an idiot. That said...

This country wasn't founded on Christianity. It was founded on secularism. Nobody wants a theocratic America. There is something written on our Declarations of Independence. I think the phrase is, "...right to life, liberty, and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS". These rights are all ours up to the point where exercising such rights infringes upon someone else's freedoms. Gay marriage takes absolutely no rights away from you, does not violate you in any legal way, etc. The reason you are against marriage for everyone isn't because of what you think America was founded on (which isn't a good reason anyways even if you were right). The true reason you are against it is because it violates your religious principles. It truly is unfortunate you want to legally impose your narrow religious view on all Americans despite the fact that our government is supposed to be secular. This isn't Iran or Saudi Arabia.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

The US was founded by Christians. The people who came here and built this country from the ground up believed in a higher power. We shouldnt change the foundation of our laws and our society just because "progressives" want to.


For this reason, no to gay "marriage".

I thought I said no sophistry.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

How many times is God referenced in the Constitution?

0, even with the ammendments.

[Whole Conviction]

How many times is God referenced in the Constitution?

0, even with the ammendments.

Zactly.

Given how prevalent religious language was at the time (so much so that even agnostics and deists referenced God mlutiple times in letters), the zero count is certainly deliberate. Its absence is startling and significant.

Religion itself is mentioned only in terms of separating church and state. Religious freedom. No state religion. No religious tests on taking office. Etc etc etc.

And yet people still try to claim that the US should be run on Christian values? Please. What's really funny is they're often the same people who argue Original Intent.

[Conservative Leaders]

How many times is God referenced in the Constitution?

0, even with the ammendments.

False. God is mentioned once. It is, however, only in reference to dating.


Anyway, Ill try and just do one megaresponce rather then just quoting everyone individually (Im lazy)-

The founding fathers did not want a secular state in the way most modern progressives envision one. But they didnt want an official religion. I do not deny that. But the people who CAME here, the average citizens (who have voted to reject gay marriage whenever given the option) were all Christians who sought a state built around the ideals of their religion. This was a state founded by Christians. Thus, our ideals should stay in line with these ideals- the "spirit" of the constitution.

And to whoever implied I said progressives were stupid - I never said that. I put progressives in scare quotes earlier because the modern day "progressives" are not progressives, but a combination of statists, socialists, and overly PC intellectuals who seek to force everyone else to view life and reality the way they do.

[Humanist Secularism]

How many times is God referenced in the Constitution?

0, even with the ammendments.

False. God is mentioned once. It is, however, only in reference to dating.


Anyway, Ill try and just do one megaresponce rather then just quoting everyone individually (Im lazy)-

The founding fathers did not want a secular state in the way most modern progressives envision one. But they didnt want an official religion. I do not deny that. But the people who CAME here, the average citizens (who have voted to reject gay marriage whenever given the option) were all Christians who sought a state built around the ideals of their religion. This was a state founded by Christians. Thus, our ideals should stay in line with these ideals- the "spirit" of the constitution.

It doesn't matter what things were like-- what matters is what is happening now, and that is descrimination. It may come as a surprise to you, but some of us don't want to live under old laws that we understand now are wrong. Tradition should have no part in law, and neither should religion.

And to whoever implied I said progressives were stupid - I never said that. I put progressives in scare quotes earlier because the modern day "progressives" are not progressives, but a combination of statists, socialists, and overly PC intellectuals who seek to force everyone else to view life and reality the way they do.

And telling everyone to conform to a religion's standards, even if they are not part of that religion, isn't "seeking to force everyone else to view life as they do"?

[Arumdaum]

How many times is God referenced in the Constitution?

0, even with the ammendments.

False. God is mentioned once. It is, however, only in reference to dating.


Anyway, Ill try and just do one megaresponce rather then just quoting everyone individually (Im lazy)-

The founding fathers did not want a secular state in the way most modern progressives envision one. But they didnt want an official religion. I do not deny that. But the people who CAME here, the average citizens (who have voted to reject gay marriage whenever given the option) were all Christians who sought a state built around the ideals of their religion. This was a state founded by Christians. Thus, our ideals should stay in line with these ideals- the "spirit" of the constitution.

And to whoever implied I said progressives were stupid - I never said that. I put progressives in scare quotes earlier because the modern day "progressives" are not progressives, but a combination of statists, socialists, and overly PC intellectuals who seek to force everyone else to view life and reality the way they do.

Christians are so different from Christ.

[Goias]

The US was founded by Christians. The people who came here and built this country from the ground up believed in a higher power. We shouldnt change the foundation of our laws and our society just because "progressives" want to.

For this reason, no to gay "marriage".

I support the principles this great nation was founded on, therefore Im a troll?

What is it with this place where conservatives who care about this country are trolls.

Those guys weren't even average Christians - a lot of 'em were Puritans. To paraphrase Ishkur (he of the Guide to Electronic Music), they were basically told to GTFO of England by King James I for being stuck-up, annoying, self-righteous anti-fun jackarses who were all up in everyone's grill.

[Redwulf]

How many times is God referenced in the Constitution?

0, even with the ammendments.

False. God is mentioned once. It is, however, only in reference to dating.


Anyway, Ill try and just do one megaresponce rather then just quoting everyone individually (Im lazy)-

The founding fathers did not want a secular state in the way most modern progressives envision one. But they didnt want an official religion. I do not deny that. But the people who CAME here, the average citizens (who have voted to reject gay marriage whenever given the option) were all Christians who sought a state built around the ideals of their religion. This was a state founded by Christians. Thus, our ideals should stay in line with these ideals- the "spirit" of the constitution.

Haven't they also voted in favor of slavery and segregation when given the option in the past? This was not, as has been stated before, a state founded by Christians and you have yet to prove otherwise. What you propose VIOLATES the spirit of the constitution like a tentacle with a Japanese school girl.

[Arumdaum]

How many times is God referenced in the Constitution?

0, even with the ammendments.

False. God is mentioned once. It is, however, only in reference to dating.


Anyway, Ill try and just do one megaresponce rather then just quoting everyone individually (Im lazy)-

The founding fathers did not want a secular state in the way most modern progressives envision one. But they didnt want an official religion. I do not deny that. But the people who CAME here, the average citizens (who have voted to reject gay marriage whenever given the option) were all Christians who sought a state built around the ideals of their religion. This was a state founded by Christians. Thus, our ideals should stay in line with these ideals- the "spirit" of the constitution.

Haven't they also voted in favor of slavery and segregation when given the option in the past? This was not, as has been stated before, a state founded by Christians and you have yet to prove otherwise. What you propose VIOLATES the spirit of the constitution like a tentacle with a Japanese school girl.

Just because it was made like that doesn't mean it has to stay like that. If everything were like that, the world would be a huge mess.

[New Wroclaw]

How many times is God referenced in the Constitution?

0, even with the ammendments.

False. God is mentioned once. It is, however, only in reference to dating.


Anyway, Ill try and just do one megaresponce rather then just quoting everyone individually (Im lazy)-

The founding fathers did not want a secular state in the way most modern progressives envision one. But they didnt want an official religion. I do not deny that. But the people who CAME here, the average citizens (who have voted to reject gay marriage whenever given the option) were all Christians who sought a state built around the ideals of their religion. This was a state founded by Christians. Thus, our ideals should stay in line with these ideals- the "spirit" of the constitution.

And to whoever implied I said progressives were stupid - I never said that. I put progressives in scare quotes earlier because the modern day "progressives" are not progressives, but a combination of statists, socialists, and overly PC intellectuals who seek to force everyone else to view life and reality the way they do.

Christians are so different from Christ.

You are so right! The Gospel of Christ is revolutionary and inclusive!
Pax vobiscum

[Whole Conviction]

Anyway, Ill try and just do one megaresponce rather then just quoting everyone individually (Im lazy)-

The founding fathers did not want a secular state in the way most modern progressives envision one. But they didnt want an official religion. I do not deny that. But the people who CAME here, the average citizens (who have voted to reject gay marriage whenever given the option) were all Christians who sought a state built around the ideals of their religion. This was a state founded by Christians. Thus, our ideals should stay in line with these ideals- the "spirit" of the constitution.

And to whoever implied I said progressives were stupid - I never said that. I put progressives in scare quotes earlier because the modern day "progressives" are not progressives, but a combination of statists, socialists, and overly PC intellectuals who seek to force everyone else to view life and reality the way they do.

The writing of the Constitution doesn't sit well with this. If the founders intended the society to be run on a religious basis then why did they go so far as to write the document without any reference to higher powers? They didn't dedicate it to God, they didn't say it reflected God's wishes, even though such things were common even in secular writing at the time. The fact that they deliberately left them out is telling. Yet you're saying it didn't mean anything.

And what DOES it contain? Well, most of what's in it comes from pretty standard contemporary liberal philosophy. Not church philosophy, but secular.

The majority of people int he early united states were Christian. The Founders also wrote about the 'tyrrany of the majority' and set up the new nation specifically to avoid that. Yet you claim that because the people were Christian, the state was intended to reflect Christian values, and majority rules.

Original intent fail.

[Betapeg]

How many times is God referenced in the Constitution?

0, even with the ammendments.

False. God is mentioned once. It is, however, only in reference to dating.


Anyway, Ill try and just do one megaresponce rather then just quoting everyone individually (Im lazy)-

The founding fathers did not want a secular state in the way most modern progressives envision one. But they didnt want an official religion. I do not deny that. But the people who CAME here, the average citizens (who have voted to reject gay marriage whenever given the option) were all Christians who sought a state built around the ideals of their religion. This was a state founded by Christians. Thus, our ideals should stay in line with these ideals- the "spirit" of the constitution.

And to whoever implied I said progressives were stupid - I never said that. I put progressives in scare quotes earlier because the modern day "progressives" are not progressives, but a combination of statists, socialists, and overly PC intellectuals who seek to force everyone else to view life and reality the way they do.

READ...

" Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson, founding father of America, 3rd president, inventor, polymath, author Declaration of Independence

" I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature.....Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make half the world fools and half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world. "
- Thomas Jefferson

" Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind."
- Thomas Jefferson, to James Smith, 1822

" I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. "
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

" I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies. "
- Benjamin Franklin, founding father of America, author, inventor

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches. "
- Benjamin Franklin

" During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution. "
- James Madison, founding father of America, 4th president, political theorist

" What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy. "
- James Madison

" Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise. "
- James Madison

" This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it. "
- John Adams, founding father of America, 2nd president, federalist

" The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. "
- John Adams

" The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma. "
- Abraham Lincoln, lawyer, emancipator, 16th president

" I do not believe in the creed of the Roman Church, in the Protestant Church, the Greek Church, or the Turkish Church. My own mind is my church. "
- Thomas Paine, deist, author "Common Sense"

" Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind. "
- Thomas Paine, from The Age of Reason

" All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. "
- Thomas Paine

" The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the sun, in which they put a man called Christ in the place of the sun, and pay him the adoration originally payed to the sun. "
- Thomas Paine

[Betapeg]

It's blatantly obvious the Founding Fathers were inspired by the Enlightenment philosophy sweeping Europe (and soon sparking the French Revolution) which saw scientific reason as the rightful basis of any government. Claiming our government was founded on "Christian" principles is fallacious to say the least and invites everything Enlightenment philosophies stood for. The very essence of Christianity is wholly UN-democratic so I do not understand why Christian conservatives continue to use such blatantly ridiculous reasoning behind their arguments to theocratize our government. I for one will not allow the Founding Fathers to be used for such intellectual blasphemy.

[Karsol]

How many times is God referenced in the Constitution?

0, even with the ammendments.

False. God is mentioned once. It is, however, only in reference to dating.


Anyway, Ill try and just do one megaresponce rather then just quoting everyone individually (Im lazy)-

The founding fathers did not want a secular state in the way most modern progressives envision one. But they didnt want an official religion. I do not deny that. But the people who CAME here, the average citizens (who have voted to reject gay marriage whenever given the option) were all Christians who sought a state built around the ideals of their religion. This was a state founded by Christians. Thus, our ideals should stay in line with these ideals- the "spirit" of the constitution.

And to whoever implied I said progressives were stupid - I never said that. I put progressives in scare quotes earlier because the modern day "progressives" are not progressives, but a combination of statists, socialists, and overly PC intellectuals who seek to force everyone else to view life and reality the way they do.

Doesn't the 14th amendment state that all should be treated equally, including marriage and adoption rights?

[Blouman Empire]

The US was founded by Christians.

Even if that was the case, it doesn't matter as it was founded for the purpose of religious freedom.

It wasn't founded because they felt they were oppressed by the English and them being ruled over without any input for them?

[New Kereptica]

The US was founded by Christians.

Even if that was the case, it doesn't matter as it was founded for the purpose of religious freedom.

It wasn't founded because they felt they were oppressed by the English and them being ruled over without any input for them?

The 'Pilgrims' didn't found the US. The Virginians did, and they were in it for the money.

EDIT: Oh, wait, ffs. I am not at the peak of my comprehension today.

[Humanist Secularism]

The US was founded by Christians.

Even if that was the case, it doesn't matter as it was founded for the purpose of religious freedom.

It wasn't founded because they felt they were oppressed by the English and them being ruled over without any input for them?

Really bad wording on my part.

[Riaka]

The US was founded by Christians. The people who came here and built this country from the ground up believed in a higher power. We shouldnt change the foundation of our laws and our society just because "progressives" want to.


For this reason, no to gay "marriage".

The U.S. was founded by some Christians. Not exclusively for them. The Bible is not the foundation of our great nation, or in fact, our society as a whole.

And if you're going to use the "we came from Christians" bit, I'd like to point out that we gained our independence from them, too.

[Manahakatouki]

It's fine! nothing wrong with em'. Nothing wrong with what they do.....

[Takaram]

Doesn't the 14th amendment state that all should be treated equally, including marriage and adoption rights?

It makes no mention of marriage. It only extends citizenship to all people born or naturalized in the US.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

False. God is mentioned once. It is, however, only in reference to dating.

Anno Domini counts? Seriously? Even most secular sources use AD, and are only recently using CE.

The founding fathers did not want a secular state in the way most modern progressives envision one. But they didnt want an official religion. I do not deny that. But the people who CAME here, the average citizens (who have voted to reject gay marriage whenever given the option) were all Christians who sought a state built around the ideals of their religion. This was a state founded by Christians. Thus, our ideals should stay in line with these ideals- the "spirit" of the constitution.

The "spirit" of the constitution has naught to do with Christianity. Saying this is a nation founded on Christianity and saying this is a nation founded by Christians are two enormously different claims. Besides, most of the founding fathers weren't exactly complementary of Christianity.

And to whoever implied I said progressives were stupid - I never said that. I put progressives in scare quotes earlier because the modern day "progressives" are not progressives, but a combination of statists, socialists, and overly PC intellectuals who seek to force everyone else to view life and reality the way they do.

So people in favor of gay marriage are which? Is that a statist or socialist idea? (I'll give you a hint, if you think it is, you fail political science 101 forever.) Is it overly PC? I know you'd like to make that argument, but I don't see how. How is it PC in any way? I'm in favor of gay marriage, and I'm also one of the most blunt motherfuckers out there. None of this logic follows.