The purpose (or lack thereof) of Algebra

[Galloism]

...No you just divide each side of the equation by 8. You only do that once.
(1/8)*8*x=...x
you could of course say 8*x*(1/8) and the result would be the same

are you sure?

but then again, it was a long time ago since i took maths so...

At least prior to ancient Egypt, no doubt.

[Greater-London]

Well I can that I haven't used much of the Maths I learned at school (bar basic arithmetic) and the same I'd say for most people. However its important in so many fields, and we use so many things a day that rely on complex mathematics so to say its without purpose is silly.

On a side note Algebra was probably the only thing I was any good at studying maths at school... thought it was pretty simple (at least at the level I worked at)

[Infected Mushroom]

are you sure?

but then again, it was a long time ago since i took maths so...

This is the easiest form of algebra you can get. Try it out yourself. Seriously if you are being truthful I am really really scared.
8*5 = 40 ...right?
so 8*x = 40...what should x be?
ok 40/8 = y...what should y be?

I deal with much more complex math then this on a daily basis. I can and do do this type of problem in my head without even thinking about it at this point, and I am not a math genius.

well i've never been faced with such a problem in real life...

if I did, I would simply convert the units first using a google program (they have like a unit converter). And then imagine the spheres in my head...

[Kaztropol]

in the likes of ancient Rome and Greece, free people were taught what they called a "liberal education", consisting of the 7 liberal arts which they defined as grammar, logic, rhetoric, arithmetic, geometry, music and astronomy.

Slaves were taught only enough grammar to understand instructions, and only enough arithmetic to add up shopping bills. Logic and rhetoric were "too dangerous" to be taught to a slave. Slaves were conditioned to sit still, facing the front of the room, keep quiet, and follow the directions of the instructor. They were assigned tasks to complete, the quality of their work was assessed, and they were moved from room to room as necessary.

The slave teaching method is the same as what most state-funded schools teach. It is intended to produce efficient, obedient workers. Not thinkers. Thinkers have ideas, that may upset the system.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

in the likes of ancient Rome and Greece, free people were taught what they called a "liberal education", consisting of the 7 liberal arts which they defined as grammar, logic, rhetoric, arithmetic, geometry, music and astronomy.

Slaves were taught only enough grammar to understand instructions, and only enough arithmetic to add up shopping bills. Logic and rhetoric were "too dangerous" to be taught to a slave. Slaves were conditioned to sit still, facing the front of the room, keep quiet, and follow the directions of the instructor. They were assigned tasks to complete, the quality of their work was assessed, and they were moved from room to room as necessary.

The slave teaching method is the same as what most state-funded schools teach. It is intended to produce efficient, obedient workers. Not thinkers. Thinkers have ideas, that may upset the system.

Ergo, we should all say "fuck the police" And drop out of school *nods*

[Free Detroit]

Wow, the level of ignorance being shown by the "I don't use algebra" people is stunning. For the vast majority of people - that is, pretty much everyone with an IQ that places them in the realm of functional adults - using algebraic reasoning is an integral part of their daily activities whether they know it or not. I agree completely that math in primary and secondary schools is usually taught poorly; the instructional models don't really encourage learning, much less the application of learning.

I'll also admit that - despite using a lot of mathematical reasoning in my daily life and work - I dropped out of school at 13 and never took algebra or any higher mathematics in school. As a result, I have serious trouble reading mathematical notation; this has not really done a lot to hold be back from graduate studies in information science or pursuing programming/electronics/robotics as a hobbyist. Code, pseudocode, predicate logic, or any other systems of notation can act as a surrogate for standard mathematical notation. However, to suggest that a normal adult can get through the basics of normal adult life without being able to perform the mental work of algebra and higher maths (substitutions, abstractions, algorithms, etc) is outrageous and a call to arms for the willfully ignorant.

TL;DR

Is the ability to read mathematical notation horribly useful to most people? No.

Is the ability to engage in mathematical reasoning useful to most people? It's essential for basic living.

[The Batorys]

Only STEM subjects should be taught in schools. Any other subjects create hipsters that cling to welfare. You have to work to eat.

Wow, up to your old habit of posting ridiculous stuff just to get people riled up, I see.

[Calimera II]

Yep. I think it is important.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

i see..

but wait...

i thought the X also has to be divided by 8 as well?

So wouldn't there be an extra step with X/8 = 5?

I just want everyone to keep in mind:

well i've already finished my maths... no more maths now...

I find it baffling you actually had to go into this explanation, love. For most people, it wouldn't have been needed. It's a given.

[Galloism]

I just want everyone to keep in mind:

I find it baffling you actually had to go into this explanation, love. For most people, it wouldn't have been needed. It's a given.

Even more frightening:

I don't know what people are complaining about.

I did Calculus and Statistics in high school.

Can you imagine a person who can't solve 8x = 40 in a calculus class?

[Mollary]

The importance of maths isn't necessarily to do with the actual content, but instead the logic thinking that it fosters as a result of it leading to people to be better equipped to deal with logic problems that they will face in every day life. Also, calculus and such have applications in Engineering, Economics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology and a whole host of other disciplines.

[Dyakovo]

I find it baffling you actually had to go into this explanation, love. For most people, it wouldn't have been needed. It's a given.

Even more frightening:

I don't know what people are complaining about.

I did Calculus and Statistics in high school.

Can you imagine a person who can't solve 8x = 40 in a calculus class?

No, which is why I think he's lying.

[Galloism]

Even more frightening:



Can you imagine a person who can't solve 8x = 40 in a calculus class?

No, which is why I think he's lying.

Well, obviously.

But it's a fun concept to think about.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I find it baffling you actually had to go into this explanation, love. For most people, it wouldn't have been needed. It's a given.

Even more frightening:

I don't know what people are complaining about.

I did Calculus and Statistics in high school.

Can you imagine a person who can't solve 8x = 40 in a calculus class?

Check Zoe's reaction. That's how I feel.

[Calimera II]

are you sure?

but then again, it was a long time ago since i took maths so...

This is the easiest form of algebra you can get. Try it out yourself. Seriously if you are being truthful I am really really scared.
8*5 = 40 ...right?

Yup.

so 8*x = 40...what should x be?

8x=40
x=40/8=5

ok 40/8 = y...what should y be?

40/8 = y
40=8y
y=40/8=5


I took your instructions too seriously, I guess.

[Arkolon]

A question for the OP: what's nine plus ten?

[Alyakia]

This is the easiest form of algebra you can get. Try it out yourself. Seriously if you are being truthful I am really really scared.
8*5 = 40 ...right?
so 8*x = 40...what should x be?
ok 40/8 = y...what should y be?

I deal with much more complex math then this on a daily basis. I can and do do this type of problem in my head without even thinking about it at this point, and I am not a math genius.

well i've never been faced with such a problem in real life...

if I did, I would simply convert the units first using a google program (they have like a unit converter). And then imagine the spheres in my head...

and how the hell do you intend to do that if you don't understand what's going on in the first place?

[Conscentia]

Sometimes I think you're feigning this.

so it makes sense to you?
what's with this dividing both sides thing? what sides?

[Neutraligon]

so it makes sense to you?
what's with this dividing both sides thing? what sides?

I was seriously wondering how this person got past Algebra to do calc and statistics...

[Atlanticatia]

I think that while most people won't be doing algebraic equations everyday, it is a building blocks for most areas of study(pretty much every layer of maths requires knowledge of algebra), and is generally important because it gives a foundation for further studies(it's a 'gatekeeper subject' - every person should study it), improves critical thinking skills, helps you understand mathematics which is usually present in some form in life and work, etc. Everybody should have at least a basic knowledge of it.


I liked algebra when I took it. Never scored below 100% on an exam in it.

[Infected Mushroom]

I was seriously wondering how this person got past Algebra to do calc and statistics...

it was a long time ago

i can't be held accountable

[Neutraligon]

I was seriously wondering how this person got past Algebra to do calc and statistics...

it was a long time ago

i can't be held accountable

Yes we can hold you responsible, what we are talking about is so basic that your lack of understanding is flabbergasting. This knowledge is so basic, and so important that your lack of understanding in it puts most of your opinions into question. Your ideas on the economy, your understanding of the economic consequences of social laws and actions, your understanding of the consequences is threads like the prison thread, all of it comes into question because you lack basic understanding of this most basic of topics. It makes you a danger as a voter.

[Lost heros]

Let's discuss Algebra and other complicated branches of mathematics. No need for a lengthy OP.

Should Algebra be taught in schools? Trigonometry? Calculus? Should those classes be optional only for those with an interest in such complex subjects? Should there be alternatives - i.e., like they have at my school - such as Computer Programming classes counting as mathematical credits?

My thoughts: Algebra is mostly pointless. I can't think of any 'useful' part of Algebra that can't be solved much quicker and easier by use of simple arithmetic. Why not let the kids decide concerning what they take in high school. If they ever have to have Algebra for a job or something, they can have it in college. But I hypothesize that most - 99% - will never use Algebra. My business teacher at school says this as well.

This is absolute and complete bullshit.
Algebra is essential for practically every field of study and everyday life.
It's rather self-explanatory why any person of a science profession would need algebra, but I'm guessing you don't care about that kind of stuff because you probably think "Well I'm not a scientist and science is stupid"

So let me give you some examples where algebra that will directly effect you.
Your taxes? Algebra. Your household budget? Algebra. If you run a business, the prices and wages of your employees.
If it has some sort of number in it, it will depend on algebra.

Furthermore, I hate to break it to you, but sometimes algebra isn't enough. As any engineer, physicist, or economist will tell you, basic calculus is absolutely essential. Building practically anything, studying forces, and selling merchandise at optimal prices all require that evil thing known as calculus.

And even if somehow you are going to avoid a profession that doesn't directly involve calculus, it is still important to you, because understanding the macroeconomics, which studies the economy of an entire nation and the world, requires calculus, and because you probably live in a nation that gives you power over the government, understanding calculus is important to you, so you can make sure they're not bullshitting you.

I would like to point out that the economy example is merely one of many examples for the fundamental need for calculus.

[Infected Mushroom]

it was a long time ago

i can't be held accountable

Yes we can hold you responsible, what we are talking about is so basic that your lack of understanding is flabbergasting. This knowledge is so basic, and so important that your lack of understanding in it puts most of your opinions into question. Your ideas on the economy, your understanding of the economic consequences of social laws and actions, your understanding of the consequences is threads like the prison thread, all of it comes into question because you lack basic understanding of this most basic of topics. It makes you a danger as a voter.

so am I also suppose to remember how to balance chemical equations, calculate moles, or equations from physics?

because I don't remember any of that now either

yet I took APs on most of those subjects...

[Neutraligon]

Let's discuss Algebra and other complicated branches of mathematics. No need for a lengthy OP.

Should Algebra be taught in schools? Trigonometry? Calculus? Should those classes be optional only for those with an interest in such complex subjects? Should there be alternatives - i.e., like they have at my school - such as Computer Programming classes counting as mathematical credits?

My thoughts: Algebra is mostly pointless. I can't think of any 'useful' part of Algebra that can't be solved much quicker and easier by use of simple arithmetic. Why not let the kids decide concerning what they take in high school. If they ever have to have Algebra for a job or something, they can have it in college. But I hypothesize that most - 99% - will never use Algebra. My business teacher at school says this as well.

This is absolute and complete bullshit.
Algebra is essential for practically every field of study and everyday life.
It's rather self-explanatory why any person of a science profession would need algebra, but I'm guessing you don't care about that kind of stuff because you probably think "Well I'm not a scientist and science is stupid"

So let me give you some examples where algebra that will directly effect you.
Your taxes? Algebra. Your household budget? Algebra. If you run a business, the prices and wages of your employees.
If it has some sort of number in it, it will depend on algebra.

Furthermore, I hate to break it to you, but sometimes algebra isn't enough. As any engineer, physicist, or economist will tell you, basic calculus is absolutely essential. Building practically anything, studying forces, and selling merchandise at optimal prices all require that evil thing known as calculus.

And even if somehow you are going to avoid a profession that doesn't directly involve calculus, it is still important to you, because understanding the macroeconomics, which studies the economy of an entire nation and the world, requires calculus, and because you probably live in a nation that gives you power over the government, understanding calculus is important to you, so you can make sure they're not bullshitting you.

I would like to point out that the economy example is merely one of many examples for the fundamental need for calculus.

Indeed, it is practically impossible to understand any form of science without calc which is in turn highly dependent on algebra and geometry. That lack of understanding in a voting country affects how we respond to certain situations like say...climate change.