The purpose (or lack thereof) of Algebra

[Neutraligon]

That and learning these maths teaches the very important skill of problem solving.

well... I think problem-solving can largely be learned from practicing video games.

its more about mathematical competence and as a rough litmus test for whether or not a math-heavy college major might be for you or not.

Depends on the video game and if the person can transfer those skills to real life. Math already is real life so no need to transfer. Also as a side note algebra is really the first real math class students take. Up until then they are doing arithmetic, not math.

[Dyakovo]

That and learning these maths teaches the very important skill of problem solving.

well... I think problem-solving can largely be learned from practicing video games.

This explains a lot.

[Infected Mushroom]

well... I think problem-solving can largely be learned from practicing video games.

its more about mathematical competence and as a rough litmus test for whether or not a math-heavy college major might be for you or not.

Depends on the video game and if the person can transfer those skills to real life. Math already is real life so no need to transfer.

well i've never had to use algebra in real life...

just basic addition and single digit multiplication, like basic arithmetic

[Saiwania]

People should be exposed to Algebra in school but I'll admit as much, if you don't actually use algebra; you'll probably forget it all. I can't do algebra problems very well, but at one time- I did become proficient up to intermediate level. I don't have the commitment and drive to keep at it.

[Neutraligon]

Depends on the video game and if the person can transfer those skills to real life. Math already is real life so no need to transfer.

well i've never had to use algebra in real life...

just basic addition and single digit multiplication, like basic arithmetic

really so you have never had to balance a budget or figure out your work hours? You've never had to figure out how long it will take you to afford certain products or if you can afford a car? You have never dealt with interest or any other number of things?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

well... I think problem-solving can largely be learned from practicing video games.

its more about mathematical competence and as a rough litmus test for whether or not a math-heavy college major might be for you or not.

Depends on the video game and if the person can transfer those skills to real life. Math already is real life so no need to transfer. Also as a side note algebra is really the first real math class students take. Up until then they are doing arithmetic, not math.

Arithmetic is math.

Unless you don't count the multiplication, division, addition, and subtraction tables as math.

[Dyakovo]

Depends on the video game and if the person can transfer those skills to real life. Math already is real life so no need to transfer.

well i've never had to use algebra in real life...

just basic addition and single digit multiplication, like basic arithmetic

As Soldati already explained, yes you have.

Let's discuss Algebra and other complicated branches of mathematics. No need for a lengthy OP.

Should Algebra be taught in schools? Trigonometry? Calculus? Should those classes be optional only for those with an interest in such complex subjects? Should there be alternatives - i.e., like they have at my school - such as Computer Programming classes counting as mathematical credits?

My thoughts: Algebra is mostly pointless. I can't think of any 'useful' part of Algebra that can't be solved much quicker and easier by use of simple arithmetic. Why not let the kids decide concerning what they take in high school. If they ever have to have Algebra for a job or something, they can have it in college. But I hypothesize that most - 99% - will never use Algebra. My business teacher at school says this as well.

Algebra teaches you how to do operations.

Sure, you'll never use X*Y=Z or even Y=mx+b but it is pretty damn important to know what the fuck you're doing in life in regards to mathematics and even science.

It's even more useful if you're handling money. Of course, we never think of it that way but when you try to figure out the rate of the work per hour you should reasonably charge, you're engaging in Algebra. When you do a calculation to figure out once you have the number of hours you have worked and plug it in in your "template" you're doing arithmetic.

Now, you might say "well I can do that without algebra" but the thing is that the study of algebra, trig, geometry, and debatably calculus teach you the processes that go in your head in a more formalized manner.

[Neutraligon]

Depends on the video game and if the person can transfer those skills to real life. Math already is real life so no need to transfer. Also as a side note algebra is really the first real math class students take. Up until then they are doing arithmetic, not math.

Arithmetic is math.

Unless you don't count the multiplication tables as math.

Many people count them as two separate things. Math tends to be more abstract, while arithmetic is limited to numbers. A good comparison is arithmetic is to math as spelling is to writing.

[Insaeldor]

Since I've been out of highschool of found that I do use algebra from time to time in my daily life although I'd say I've found geometry much more useful. Keep basic algebra and basic geometry for freshmen and sophomore year switch algebra 2 with Geometry 2 for junior year and than senior year you should have to take a finances classes that teaches you how to do things like balance a check book, file a tax return and other such things.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Arithmetic is math.

Unless you don't count the multiplication tables as math.

Many people count them as two separate things.

I see them as one since you're still manipulating the numerical system.

The only real difference with arithmetic and more advanced forms of math is that you manipulate variables in algebra and above and not concrete numbers.

[Infected Mushroom]

Depends on the video game and if the person can transfer those skills to real life. Math already is real life so no need to transfer. Also as a side note algebra is really the first real math class students take. Up until then they are doing arithmetic, not math.

Arithmetic is math.

Unless you don't count the multiplication, division, addition, and subtraction tables as math.

its not algebra though, its just arithmetic.

I'm not re-arranging variables in an equation in real life... I'm just doing basic calculator work.

It's stuff like ''what does 4.50 times 3 equal'' for an approximation of grocery bills vs ''how do I solve X in (5+X)/(10 to the power of 5.5) = 6 x 10 to the power of 20'').

There's a difference. Algebra curriculums tend to emphasize complex variable manipulation and equation solving. In real life from day to day? I've only ever used basic arithmetic.

those are skills I learned long before Algebra class.

[Infected Mushroom]

Arithmetic is math.

Unless you don't count the multiplication tables as math.

Many people count them as two separate things. Math tends to be more abstract, while arithmetic is limited to numbers. A good comparison is arithmetic is to math as spelling is to writing.

Algebra is when you're solving for a variable that's not at the end of the Equal sign (it's on the left side instead of the right side) and has a certain level of technical complexity.

Arithmetic is a basic calculation in which you are simply solving for what's at the very end of the Equal sign.

Arithmetic is what you use in day to day.

[Neutraligon]

Many people count them as two separate things.

I see them as one since you're still manipulating the numerical system.

The only real difference with arithmetic and more advanced forms of math is that you manipulate variables in algebra and above and not concrete numbers.

I edited my post above to give a comparison, that is arithmetic is to math as spelling is to writing.

[Transyl]

Algebra, and other branches of Mathematics are just as important as any other subject in any level of schooling. It may seem pointless, confusing, and just plain difficult, but it is necessary for your education. It soon gets easier trust me, I used to think the same thing, but I now know how stupid it was of me to think that way. I thought school all together was stupid and too complicated, and i got kicked out of school for not showing up, that's when i finally learned that i was wrong. You need to do your school work, pay attention in class, and show up to school all together no matter how stupid it seems, because if you don't you will end up a drop out and won't have many opportunities to work. And lets face it, nobody wants to date someone who dropped out of high school, never went to college, and doesn't have a job or any money right? No good person at least, maybe no good people would but thats not the kind of partner you want. So just deal with Algebra, and other subjects, it has its purpose in the future.

[Arkolon]

Let's discuss Algebra and other complicated branches of mathematics. No need for a lengthy OP.

Should Algebra be taught in schools?

Definitely. It is useful for neuroplasticity in children, as well as the logical and rational basis for most, if not all, of analytic sciences.

Trigonometry?

How can you even suggest that these things are useless? The sine and cosine rules have opened doors to thousands of new insights I never would have reached without them.

Calculus?

Should those classes be optional only for those

Who don't want a job? Even then, I'm inclined to say no.

with an interest in such complex subjects?

"Complex". If you put your mind to it, it isn't that difficult. And I don't mean to talk to you from some sort of high horse position: I did grow up with people with dyslexia and learning problems, and all it took was a more elongated explanation of the matter at hand (as well as determination and engagement) for those students to understand it.

Should there be alternatives - i.e., like they have at my school - such as Computer Programming classes counting as mathematical credits?

You will not get accepted into any Computer Programming course without any degree or certification in maths. If all you taught kids was to do simple addition, we'd slowly revert back to the Middle Ages of adult mathematical literacy.

My thoughts: Algebra is mostly pointless.

You only failed that one test, man, it isn't that big of a deal. Just revise more for the next one!

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Arithmetic is math.

Unless you don't count the multiplication, division, addition, and subtraction tables as math.

its not algebra though, its just arithmetic.

I'm not re-arranging variables in an equation in real life... I'm just doing basic calculator work.

It's stuff like ''what does 4.50 times 3 equal'' for an approximation of grocery bills vs ''how do I solve X in (5+X)/(10 to the power of 5.5) = 6 x 10 to the power of 20'').

There's a difference. Algebra curriculums tend to emphasize complex variable manipulation and equation solving. In real life from day to day? I've only ever used basic arithmetic.

those are skills I learned long before Algebra class.

Yes, however, algebra in a real life application would be phrased as:

"If a pack of cigarettes is $4.50 and I have to drive to the drug store to get it, how much would I be spending in a week worth of money at my current consumption rate? What happens if I cut back?"

or

"How much can I reasonably charge for my computer service per hour if my overhead is an estimate of 50 dollars per job? How much would it take in any sort of given amount of hours?"

You need a working model to do calculations and that's where algebra comes in. Algebra helps in designing models in real life to make operations in arithmetic much easier.

[Infected Mushroom]

well i've never had to use algebra in real life...

just basic addition and single digit multiplication, like basic arithmetic

really so you have never had to balance a budget or figure out your work hours? You've never had to figure out how long it will take you to afford certain products or if you can afford a car? You have never dealt with interest or any other number of things?

i never calculate interest. It accumulates automatically. The bank does the math for me.

I don't need to figure out how long it will take to afford certain products, I simply go and buy them when i see that I have a reasonable stack of funds in the bank/at home.

The rest is just basic arithmetic (the formula is self-evident, the mechanics are simple, and you are solving for something on the right side of the equal sign and not re-arranging to solve for something on the left). All skills I learned before Algebra.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I see them as one since you're still manipulating the numerical system.

The only real difference with arithmetic and more advanced forms of math is that you manipulate variables in algebra and above and not concrete numbers.

I edited my post above to give a comparison, that is arithmetic is to math as spelling is to writing.

I'd say arithmetic is to math as the wheels are to your car.

Algebra and other "real math" being the engine

[Galloism]

Many people count them as two separate things. Math tends to be more abstract, while arithmetic is limited to numbers. A good comparison is arithmetic is to math as spelling is to writing.

Algebra is when you're solving for a variable that's not at the end of the Equal sign and has a certain level of technical complexity.

You're baking a pie. It calls for 40 ounces of a certain ingredient.

Your biggest measuring cup is 8 ounces. You know a certain number of cups will be required. It can be expressed as follows:

8x = 40

Diving both sides by 8 gives you x = 5, or 5 cups.

[Infected Mushroom]

its not algebra though, its just arithmetic.

I'm not re-arranging variables in an equation in real life... I'm just doing basic calculator work.

It's stuff like ''what does 4.50 times 3 equal'' for an approximation of grocery bills vs ''how do I solve X in (5+X)/(10 to the power of 5.5) = 6 x 10 to the power of 20'').

There's a difference. Algebra curriculums tend to emphasize complex variable manipulation and equation solving. In real life from day to day? I've only ever used basic arithmetic.

those are skills I learned long before Algebra class.

Yes, however, algebra in a real life application would be phrased as:

"If a pack of cigarettes is $4.50 and I have to drive to the drug store to get it, how much would I be spending in a week worth of money at my current consumption rate? What happens if I cut back?"

or

"How much can I reasonably charge for my computer service per hour if my overhead is an estimate of 50 dollars per job? How much would it take in any sort of given amount of hours?"

You need a working model to do calculations and that's where algebra comes in. Algebra helps in designing models in real life to make operations in arithmetic much easier.

i usually use pure intuition for that sort of thing...

[Infected Mushroom]

Algebra is when you're solving for a variable that's not at the end of the Equal sign and has a certain level of technical complexity.

You're baking a pie. It calls for 40 ounces of a certain ingredient.

Your biggest measuring cup is 8 ounces. You know a certain number of cups will be required. A quart is 32 ounces. It can be expressed as follows:

8x = 40

Diving both sides by 8 gives you x = 5, or 5 cups.

it's too complicated

you've already lost me before even giving the answer...

[Galloism]

Yes, however, algebra in a real life application would be phrased as:

"If a pack of cigarettes is $4.50 and I have to drive to the drug store to get it, how much would I be spending in a week worth of money at my current consumption rate? What happens if I cut back?"

or

"How much can I reasonably charge for my computer service per hour if my overhead is an estimate of 50 dollars per job? How much would it take in any sort of given amount of hours?"

You need a working model to do calculations and that's where algebra comes in. Algebra helps in designing models in real life to make operations in arithmetic much easier.

i usually use pure intuition for that sort of thing...

Which is merely shorthand algebra.

[Galloism]

You're baking a pie. It calls for 40 ounces of a certain ingredient.

Your biggest measuring cup is 8 ounces. You know a certain number of cups will be required. A quart is 32 ounces. It can be expressed as follows:

8x = 40

Diving both sides by 8 gives you x = 5, or 5 cups.

it's too complicated

you've already lost me before even giving the answer...

I guess baking isn't your thing.

[Infected Mushroom]

i usually use pure intuition for that sort of thing...

Which is merely shorthand algebra.

you can't intuitively re-arrange complex formulas in your head without being a math genius

[Infected Mushroom]

it's too complicated

you've already lost me before even giving the answer...

I guess baking isn't your thing.

I bake pizzas in the oven. They come in packages.

Why?