The purpose (or lack thereof) of Algebra

[Othelos]

Let's discuss Algebra and other complicated branches of mathematics. No need for a lengthy OP.

Should Algebra be taught in schools? Trigonometry? Calculus? Should those classes be optional only for those with an interest in such complex subjects? Should there be alternatives - i.e., like they have at my school - such as Computer Programming classes counting as mathematical credits?

My thoughts: Algebra is mostly pointless. I can't think of any 'useful' part of Algebra that can't be solved much quicker and easier by use of simple arithmetic. Why not let the kids decide concerning what they take in high school. If they ever have to have Algebra for a job or something, they can have it in college. But I hypothesize that most - 99% - will never use Algebra. My business teacher at school says this as well.

Algebra is easy as fuck. And this is coming from someone who almost failed calculus.

Just wait until you have to study more difficult subjects later in high school.

[Aggicificicerous]

You want to do computer programming without learning algebra first? Is this a joke?

Just wait until you get to college and find that a degree in computer programming requires at least two years in, not algrebra, but calculus.

[Galloism]

You want to do computer programming without learning algebra first? Is this a joke?

Just wait until you get to college and find that a degree in computer programming requires at least two years in, not algrebra, but calculus.

Not sure that's universal.

I have a degree in software development and design, programming focus, and it only required one year of calculus.

[Kelinfort]

In response to your OP: OF FUCKING COURSE.

[Charellia]

Let's discuss Algebra and other complicated branches of mathematics. No need for a lengthy OP.

Should Algebra be taught in schools? Trigonometry? Calculus? Should those classes be optional only for those with an interest in such complex subjects? Should there be alternatives - i.e., like they have at my school - such as Computer Programming classes counting as mathematical credits?

My thoughts: Algebra is mostly pointless. I can't think of any 'useful' part of Algebra that can't be solved much quicker and easier by use of simple arithmetic. Why not let the kids decide concerning what they take in high school. If they ever have to have Algebra for a job or something, they can have it in college. But I hypothesize that most - 99% - will never use Algebra. My business teacher at school says this as well.

Most people will never use algebra, this is true but still must be mandatory through high school for two very important reasons.
1. People don't know what they want to do in Grade 8. If I could have dropped math then, I would have, but now that I am in university all I can say is "Thank God I wasn't allowed to."

2. Understanding of algebra is fundamental to the understanding of all other branches of math. Even the basic maths you learn before starting algebra cannot be truly understood without it. Since the purpose of school is not teaching practical skills, but rather how to think (if practical skills were the objective then virtually all of high school would be pointless) gaining a proper understanding of math is crucial.

[Nuridia]

Algebra serves no purpose at all but making your brain want to commit suicide. It is the worst mental torture ever, and my own math teacher personally told me that "You will never even need this stuff."

[Senyosu]

Algebra serves no purpose at all but making your brain want to commit suicide. It is the worst mental torture ever, and my own math teacher personally told me that "You will never even need this stuff."

You hate technology.

[Othelos]

Algebra serves no purpose at all but making your brain want to commit suicide. It is the worst mental torture ever, and my own math teacher personally told me that "You will never even need this stuff."

Just wait until you try to get a degree.

Even chemistry requires precalc/calc

[Distruzio]

Let's discuss Algebra and other complicated branches of mathematics. No need for a lengthy OP.

Should Algebra be taught in schools? Trigonometry? Calculus? Should those classes be optional only for those with an interest in such complex subjects? Should there be alternatives - i.e., like they have at my school - such as Computer Programming classes counting as mathematical credits?

My thoughts: Algebra is mostly pointless. I can't think of any 'useful' part of Algebra that can't be solved much quicker and easier by use of simple arithmetic. Why not let the kids decide concerning what they take in high school. If they ever have to have Algebra for a job or something, they can have it in college. But I hypothesize that most - 99% - will never use Algebra. My business teacher at school says this as well.

Well... we can't all work at McDonalds can we?

Thus, mathematics is taught.

[Trevor Phillip Enterprises]

Unless you plan on making the kids build a career from low tier service jobs, investing a bit of time and energy into algebra can help them achieve so much, in so many different fields.

[Dyakovo]

Algebra serves no purpose at all but making your brain want to commit suicide. It is the worst mental torture ever, and my own math teacher personally told me that "You will never even need this stuff."

Your math teacher lied to you.

[Nuridia]

Algebra serves no purpose at all but making your brain want to commit suicide. It is the worst mental torture ever, and my own math teacher personally told me that "You will never even need this stuff."

You hate technology.

I love technology actually, I can work a computer, phone and iPad just fine. I didn't say I didn't know algebra, I just hated learning it.

[Westerly Winds]

While I can see the argument for classes like calculus, or even trig, I think algebra is essential. I mean, think of what a basic algebra problem is at heart. Jenny had 5 apples. Bob ate some, now she has 2. How many did bob eat? Now yes, you solve that with basic arithmetic, but it is an algebra problem.

5-x=2
-x=-3
x=3

For algebra one and two, the utility is in the applications.

At my school, if yo take the minimal classes (core), your high school math career will be Algebra one, geometry, algebra two (possibly with trig included), pre-calc (or a computer science class, or "discrete math" which is designed to be a end-cap math class, or a separate trig class). Pre-calc being a setup for where colleges start, with calc, and the other options existing for other paths. Now, if you're like me and started with algebra on in seventh grade, you're taking AP Calculus BC junior year, and will have to go to a local community college for math next year via a dual enrollment program - but if I didn't want to pursue an engineering job, I could have stopped taking math, period, after last year.

Basic algebra is a useful skill for the everyday person, even if much is common sense, and geometry and basic trig is the root of any basic construction or repairs, or even graphical design really.

[Senyosu]

You hate technology.

I love technology actually, I can work a computer, phone and iPad just fine. I didn't say I didn't know algebra, I just hated learning it.

Without algebra, there would be no technology.

Case. Closed. Your teacher is a liar.

[Utceforp]

Let's discuss Algebra and other complicated branches of mathematics. No need for a lengthy OP.

Should Algebra be taught in schools? Trigonometry? Calculus? Should those classes be optional only for those with an interest in such complex subjects? Should there be alternatives - i.e., like they have at my school - such as Computer Programming classes counting as mathematical credits?

My thoughts: Algebra is mostly pointless. I can't think of any 'useful' part of Algebra that can't be solved much quicker and easier by use of simple arithmetic. Why not let the kids decide concerning what they take in high school. If they ever have to have Algebra for a job or something, they can have it in college. But I hypothesize that most - 99% - will never use Algebra. My business teacher at school says this as well.

Physics and programming both require algebra.

[Forsher]

Balance a see-saw without algebra. Let's see you measure the force of magnets with simple Arithmetic. How do you measure gravity? Let's see you explain the theory of relativity without algebra. Remember the shuttles? Explain how we can get them up there; do their work and return. What about GPS systems? etc., etc., etc.......

Great. How can that be used for a person's benefit? How can that have a practical purpose? If they are curious, they can learn it themselves or take the elective. But most do not have an interest in Algebra, and should not be expected to.

I would argue that Algebra is holding us back from being the number 1 mathematically literate country in the world. People wonder why test scores have been dropping for the past fifty years. We've made Algebra and other useless branches of mathematics more important than practical mathematics.

Your ideas are moronic. What exactly do you think maths consists of?

Clue: it's not 5*4 =20.

Say, for instance, you're trying to budget a household. You need to factor in, for instance, transport costs. Say we've got a couple in their early thirties who both drive to work (Call them Sarah and Joe). They work in opposite directions and are unable to transport. Petrol prices are always $2.00 for simplicity's sake. Joe drives 4km to work each day, and 6km on the way home for 10km altogether. His car does 20km a litre. Sarah has a 25km round trip in a car that gets 17km to the litre. They both work five days a week and hibernate all weekend, confident in the knowledge they get free parking at work.

Their transport budget is going to Sarah's costs + Joe's costs. Which is best done using simple algebra. Let budget = B, costs Sarah = S and costs Joe = J. That is, B = S + J.

Now Sarah's costs come down to how much petrol she needs and how much it costs her (Joe's situation is very similar). So, in a week she travels 25*5 = 125km which means she needs 125/17 litres of petrol, which is approx. 7.35 litres. Multiply that by $2 and we've got her costs, which we'll call $15 a week. We could think through all this again for Joe but it'd be easier to think about it through some sort of formula. Such as distance/economy rate * price of petrol and just change the numbers.

If we kept this in mind we can easily alter any of our variables and calculate them just like this. Which, you know, is really useful because calling petrol a constant is like calling cloud levels constant in Auckland (clue: frequently the whether isn't consistent within an hour, let alone the clouds).

This is, of course, the sort of question you might find in a school level maths test. It's also pretty much what most business subjects are interested in doing (esp. the likes of finance). Conclusion: your teacher's an idiot or just messing with you.

Indeed, when I went to college at first I had no idea what I wanted to become. It would have been impossible to become an engineer without classes in algebra, calc, and geometry, all of which feature heavily in my path as an engineer (hello robots).

That's great! But should everyone be expected to take those classes? Keep specialization in mind.

Her argument is: to be able to specialise, you must first have the knowledge to fairly assess your options. This invariably includes algebra (and, frequently, calculus... neither of which are difficult at school).

Nana will have to use moderation with that, Cos she could get skin cancer.

Puns this bad should be considered a sin.

I'm aware this is cheating. Yet I can't feel bad about it.

Perhaps you could've said, "I think this is a sin we've got too far?"

As to teaching algebra, my maths tutor (for a course I have 98% certainly failed*) said, just call x tree... problem solved. I've got to say, he has a very strong point.

*I find university maths hard, okay, don't hate me, plz? Total contrast to school.

[Nuridia]

Okay, so he lied. My point is merely that I've struggled with math my entire school career and never got along with it. I hate it, although eventually I did learn it.

[Utceforp]

Nana will have to use moderation with that, Cos she could get skin cancer.

Puns this bad should be considered a sin.

I'm aware this is cheating. Yet I can't feel bad about it.

I think we're going off on a tangent, we should really get back on the topic of the thread.

[Forsher]

Physics and programming both require algebra.

I believe that a physics major at my university does so many maths courses, not also doing maths as a major is silly.

[Immoren]

Al-jabr is obviously moslem plot to seduce and convert pious christians into clutches of Mohamedanism.

[Forsher]

Puns this bad should be considered a sin.

I'm aware this is cheating. Yet I can't feel bad about it.

I think we're going off on a tangent, we should really get back on the topic of the thread.

What a radical notion.

Seriously though, going further with maths is honestly worth it entirely for the pun value. Not that we, in NZ, ever talk about radicals.

[Idzequitch]

Algebra can be useful, but the majority of people won't use it. Then again, I took Physics, Geometry, Calculus, Chemistry, and Consumer Mathematics in high school, and I am now using none of them in my university studies. I can support having all high schoolers learn basic algebra, but anything beyond that should be optional.

[Idzequitch]

Let's discuss Algebra and other complicated branches of mathematics. No need for a lengthy OP.

Should Algebra be taught in schools? Trigonometry? Calculus? Should those classes be optional only for those with an interest in such complex subjects? Should there be alternatives - i.e., like they have at my school - such as Computer Programming classes counting as mathematical credits?

My thoughts: Algebra is mostly pointless. I can't think of any 'useful' part of Algebra that can't be solved much quicker and easier by use of simple arithmetic. Why not let the kids decide concerning what they take in high school. If they ever have to have Algebra for a job or something, they can have it in college. But I hypothesize that most - 99% - will never use Algebra. My business teacher at school says this as well.

Algebra is easy as fuck. And this is coming from someone who almost failed calculus.

Just wait until you have to study more difficult subjects later in high school.

What's easy for you is not easy for everyone. Algebra and Calculus were the only subjects that prevented me from having a 4.0 GPA in high school.

[Westerly Winds]

I'll add, as someone who enjoys basic carpentry, and does his own yardwork, that knowing things like how angles work, how much mulch I need to cover this bed in one inch of mulch, how much potting soil I'll need for this raised bed (or 1 x 6's, or nails if I use 2 in this place that happens eight times, and three in this place that there's four of, and so forth) that these basic skills are useful for those who don't always want to go step for step off of a tutorial.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Algebra can be useful, but the majority of people won't use it. Then again, I took Physics, Geometry, Calculus, Chemistry, and Consumer Mathematics in high school, and I am now using none of them in my university studies. I can support having all high schoolers learn basic algebra, but anything beyond that should be optional.

You're using it right now. You're posting on an internet site.