Muslims discovered America before Columbus, says Erdogan

[Papait]

I do wonder though if Erdogan realises that discovering Cuba is a sign of stupidity, as it basicly meant someone decided to sail into an empty ocean (because people back then assumed that it was an empty ocean, as they knew the earth was round, what size it was and the distance between Asia and Europe, so The discoverer is basicly the idiot that sailed towards certain death and was lucky enough to land on Cuba

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

That's like completely wrong

Australia is Australia, Tasmania, New Guinea and Timor.

New Zealand is part of Oceania, never part of australia

No, Timor is Wallacea, not Sahul.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Line

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallacea

It seems like NSG never heard of the first discoverer of the Evolution theory, Alfred Russel Wallace.

[Bulgar Rouge]

Does that mean ISIL's next target will be Castro ?

[Equusia]

What 'bout dem Vikings ?

Vikings for the win!

[The Archregimancy]

2) Old Chris Colombo who actually discovered, and exploited what is now Cuba, and Haiti (He never once landed in what is now North America)!

Yes he did.

On his fourth voyage, Columbus landed on the continental landmass of North America on the 14th of August, 1502, at what's now Puerto Castilla, Honduras. He continued down the Caribbean coast of Central America - the "southernmost, isthmian portion of the North American continent" - as far as Panama.

Columbus also landed on the continental landmass of the Americas on his third voyage in 1498, albeit in South America, in what's now Venezuela.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

2) Old Chris Colombo who actually discovered, and exploited what is now Cuba, and Haiti (He never once landed in what is now North America)!

Yes he did.

On his fourth voyage, Columbus landed on the continental landmass of North America on the 14th of August, 1502, at what's now Puerto Castilla, Honduras. He continued down the Caribbean coast of Central America - the "southernmost, isthmian portion of the North American continent" - as far as Panama.

Columbus also landed on the continental landmass of the Americas on his third voyage in 1498, albeit in South America, in what's now Venezuela.

That is not North America for those who speak Portuguese, Spanish, French and Italian!

[Southern Arkansas]

Yes he did.

On his fourth voyage, Columbus landed on the continental landmass of North America on the 14th of August, 1502, at what's now Puerto Castilla, Honduras. He continued down the Caribbean coast of Central America - the "southernmost, isthmian portion of the North American continent" - as far as Panama.

Columbus also landed on the continental landmass of the Americas on his third voyage in 1498, albeit in South America, in what's now Venezuela.

That is not North America for those who speak Portuguese, Spanish, French and Italian!

I didn't know Honduras was in North America for anyone.

[New Waterford]

Quite a few people discovered America before Columbus, though it seems unlikely that Muslims did.

[Buse]

Quite simply it was the NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS who discovered the Americas! All the others came much later!
The only archeological evidence for european rediscovery/conquests (in order);
1) The vikings under Leif Erikson circa 1000ad (near L'ans aux meadows, Canada)
2) Old Chris Colombo who actually discovered, and exploited what is now Cuba, and Haiti (He never once landed in what is now North America)!
3) All the other european nations driven by manifest destiny, and imperial colonialism.

Chris Colombo never meant to discriminate anybody. The Indians should never had to attack in first place. After conquering them he only intended to teach the Idians science and literature, also to civilase them.

[The Holy Therns]

That is not North America for those who speak Portuguese, Spanish, French and Italian!

I didn't know Honduras was in North America for anyone.

Central America isn't its own continent, though.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

I didn't know Honduras was in North America for anyone.

Central America isn't its own continent, though.

It's as much of a subcontinent in at least two (Portuguese and Spanish) of the languages cited as North and South America, with the Caribbean archipelago counted with it.

[Rupudska]

Errordogan said something stupid, in other news, water is wet.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Makes sense imo

[The Archregimancy]

That is not North America for those who speak Portuguese, Spanish, French and Italian!

I didn't know Honduras was in North America for anyone.

The moden concept of Central America is largely a social construct rather than a purely geographical one. Leaving aside social and political geography, and focusing solely on physical geography - which would be most relevant to a 1498 definition pre-dating colonialism - Central America is part of the North American landmass; it is the southernmost isthmus of the North American continent, though there are different definitions depending on the broader socio-political context.

[Lydenburg]

Capital. If he works at Elmina he's undoubtedly aware of the "French Battery" there. I'm not sure if there's more than one on site, or if if indeed several French batteries existed on the particular site throughout history, but the term was used in the logs of Michael Hemmersam to describe where an earlier fortification was built by French explorers who were the first possessors of the place.

Either way Mr. De Corse will be familiar with the term and it'd be helpful if you make mention of this when you begin your correspondence.

I confess I may have rather naively assumed the reference to founding a settlement at Cape Bojador automatically equated to an undertaking of similar proportions at Elmina if indeed Normans were also present in that region. However, Hemmersman mentions a battery so I conjectured a colony of a more static nature.

The French were not the first 'possessors' of Elmina - the Portuguese were. The Portuguese built São Jorge da Mina castle in 1482; "el mina" = the mine.

Are you absolutely sure that you're wholly up to date with the archaeology of the site? You keep mentioning things like the West African Archaeological Newsletter, but that was only published from 1964-1971 before it turned into the Journal, and its short paper on the French Battery was published in 1968. The most recent citation you've offered is the Calvocoressi article from 1977. So I just have this nagging feeling that you're relying on some seriously outdated analysis.

You're clearly sincerely interested in the site, so if perhaps read Dr De Corse's 2001 book An Archaeology of Elmina if you haven't done so already; I recommend it to all of my students studying the archaeology of early modern globalisation.

You might also be interested in this: http://www.academia.edu/796757/Beads_as ... rchaeology

In any case, I'll likely see Chris De Corse at a conference in January, so I can ask him then if I don't ask him before then.

Thanks for the recommendation. Although new findings have probably surfaced since the publication date, I'll be sure to make some inquiries about Dr. De Corse's book next time I'm by the library at Wits. If it concerns Africa and archaeology they'll either carry it or know where to get a copy.

A quick citation search on Google finds that an astonishing amount of literature published in this past decade are still citing C. Flight's 1968 paper entitled "the French Battery", so one would presume that it's either madly comprehensive or no more information has since made available. Calvocoressi is the latest archaeologist I could find mentioned at a dig in the reported Norman site, which I interpret as either the product of a gradual decline in academic interest or a total debunk. But surely it must be the former rather than the latter -- or it would have become obvious to at least one of us at this point.

As to the French being the first possessors of Elmina, those are Hemmersam's words as I recall them, not mine specifically. Should have made that clearer.

Incidentally I was at the 14th Pan-African Archaeological Congress right here in Braam this past July, may have even seen Dr. De Corse there. Or even a certain NS moderator....that is, if he goes to Africanist archaeologist conferences...

[Southern Arkansas]

I didn't know Honduras was in North America for anyone.

The moden concept of Central America is largely a social construct rather than a purely geographical one. Leaving aside social and political geography, and focusing solely on physical geography - which would be most relevant to a 1498 definition pre-dating colonialism - Central America is part of the North American landmass; it is the southernmost isthmus of the North American continent, though there are different definitions depending on the broader socio-political context.

Ah, thanks for the info. This is all news to me.

[Gezi Park]

Erdogan smokes weed, too uch weed, he needs to learn history.

Well, his nephew was caught with lots of drug. Also, there are allegiations that his son is an addict and that's probably why he barely appears in public unlike his other son.

Erdogan grew up in a very fucked up suburb of Istanbul, I lived near that place and you know it's pretty much like in that movie Friday (if anyone's watched it ), so I wouldn't be surprised if he had a background full of this nasty stuff.

[Ravenflight]

I think we all have the right to have an open mind, so lets use them...

[The Archregimancy]

Incidentally I was at the 14th Pan-African Archaeological Congress right here in Braam this past July, may have even seen Dr. De Corse there. Or even a certain NS moderator....that is, if he goes to Africanist archaeologist conferences...

No, wasn't at that one; you're spared having met me inadvertently without knowing it

[L Ron Cupboard]

... you're spared having me inadvertently without knowing it

I'd always heard these conferences were really just orgies.

[Ravenflight]

Lets look at the facts. Columbus wasn't the first European in America that was a Viking, Islam did have control in neighboring Russia at points because the hordes in that area. It could be possible the Vikings raided said area in Russia, taken some people prisoner, then these Prisoners were taken to the new world maybe right? IDK its just an idea

[Pola]

And I'm discovered by my mother a very long time ago. .
I think that mr Erdogan is a bit synical.

[Summerset Plains]

The vikings abandoned america. They only colonised NewFoundLand

[CTALNH]

Because fuck the vikings right?

[CTALNH]

The vikings abandoned america. They only colonised NewFoundLand

Indeed but hey they did get there way before Columbus did.