What are your thoughts on Atheism?

[Arkolon]

You're forgetting that the possibility of a different God that performs the same functions as the Christian God acts as the counterpart of that set without actually being the Christian God. Read my posts to Aug.

No, i was not. Now, your argument is mathmatically invalid. If you are going to stop your special pleading and not add in your most specialest god:
gods that send atheists to heaven (+x,-x)
gods that send christians to heaven (-x,+x)

sum = (0,0)


But the atheists "win" in the sense that christians are going to be wrong in almost all cases about what god exists.

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,0)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,0)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,0)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,-1)

[Arkolon]

G_(1,-1) and the Christian God aren't necessarily the same.

So? The Christian god still has finite traits and each of those traits has one or more alternatives.

There is no other Christian God but the Christian God. In the post above this one, how would you factor in what you mean?

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

No, i was not. Now, your argument is mathmatically invalid. If you are going to stop your special pleading and not add in your most specialest god:
gods that send atheists to heaven (+x,-x)
gods that send christians to heaven (-x,+x)

sum = (0,0)


But the atheists "win" in the sense that christians are going to be wrong in almost all cases about what god exists.

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,0)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,0)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,0)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,-1)

Only because your special pleading results in you adding TWO gods who send atheists to hell and christians to heaven. So, to counteract your apologetic bullshittery, I am adding in several thousand instances of the flying spaghetti monster, one for every flavour of alcoholic beverage to spew forth from the heavenly volcano.

(-8579309, +0392784639785648975647)

Your move.

[Esternial]

No, i was not. Now, your argument is mathmatically invalid. If you are going to stop your special pleading and not add in your most specialest god:
gods that send atheists to heaven (+x,-x)
gods that send christians to heaven (-x,+x)

sum = (0,0)


But the atheists "win" in the sense that christians are going to be wrong in almost all cases about what god exists.

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,0)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,0)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,0)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,-1)

I'd argue that atheists win when they go nowhere. It's kind of their thing. Anywhere BUT hell would be good for atheists. Also, no God would be a victory for atheists, too.

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,2)

[Seno Zhou Varada]

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,0)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,0)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,0)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,-1)

I'd argue that atheists win when they go nowhere. It's kind of their thing. Anywhere BUT hell would be good for atheists.

I would prefer Buddhist reincarnation.

[Arkolon]

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,0)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,0)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,0)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,-1)

Only because your special pleading results in you adding TWO gods who send atheists to hell and christians to heaven. So, to counteract your apologetic bullshittery, I am adding in several thousand instances of the flying spaghetti monster, one for every flavour of alcoholic beverage to spew forth from the heavenly volcano.

(-8579309, +0392784639785648975647)

Your move.

You aren't even trying anymore.

[Arkolon]

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,0)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,0)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,0)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,-1)

I'd argue that atheists win when they go nowhere. It's kind of their thing. Anywhere BUT hell would be good for atheists.

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,0)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,2)

Do you even know what death is, or even works? How can you "win" if you are dead, especially when there is no afterlife?

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

Only because your special pleading results in you adding TWO gods who send atheists to hell and christians to heaven. So, to counteract your apologetic bullshittery, I am adding in several thousand instances of the flying spaghetti monster, one for every flavour of alcoholic beverage to spew forth from the heavenly volcano.

(-8579309, +0392784639785648975647)

Your move.

You aren't even trying anymore.

You have no argument supporting your distribution of number and payoff for god-claims, so I get to do the same. Maybe you should start trying?

[Arkolon]

I'd argue that atheists win when they go nowhere. It's kind of their thing. Anywhere BUT hell would be good for atheists.

I would prefer Buddhist reincarnation.

The wager can be applied to any religion that has a God of (1,-1), so you could do that. I don't care what or who you believe in, but I just want to stop the atheist teenagers from smearing this "atheism is rational and logical" all over this corner of the Internet.

[Esternial]

I'd argue that atheists win when they go nowhere. It's kind of their thing. Anywhere BUT hell would be good for atheists.

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,0)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,2)

Do you even know what death is, or even works? How can you "win" if you are dead, especially when there is no afterlife?

Not getting it, are you?

An atheist would be totally okey with dying and going "nowhere", since it's kinda their thing. Wouldn't mind heaven, even though it would mean they're wrong. So looking at all these prospects, Atheists have a bigger chance of "winning".

You're the one that wanted to make it mathematical. Don't pout.

Being an Atheists means you have a bigger chance at getting a good outcome when you die, which is either no afterlife or a heaven.

[Arkolon]

You aren't even trying anymore.

You have no argument supporting your distribution of number and payoff for god-claims, so I get to do the same. Maybe you should start trying?

For this instance, there is always the chance that a different flying spaghetti monster, or even whole a different god, will do the opposite.

[Esternial]

I would prefer Buddhist reincarnation.

The wager can be applied to any religion that has a God of (1,-1), so you could do that. I don't care what or who you believe in, but I just want to stop the atheist teenagers from smearing this "atheism is rational and logical" all over this corner of the Internet.

And I want to make sure you don't smear bullshit all over this place by doing so in the process.

I look out for everyone's best interest.

[Arkolon]

Do you even know what death is, or even works? How can you "win" if you are dead, especially when there is no afterlife?

Not getting it, are you?

An atheist would be totally okey with dying and going "nowhere", since it's kinda their thing. Wouldn't mind heaven, even though it would mean they're wrong. So looking at all these prospects, Atheists have a bigger chance of "winning".

You're the one that wanted to make it mathematical. Don't pout.

Being an Atheists means you have a bigger chance at getting a good outcome when you die, which is either no afterlife or a heaven.

I don't even know what to say to you. You can't "win" when you're in the unconscious, infinite, dark void that is death. You can't reflect at all. You won't know that you win unless you are not dead or are conscious. You can only "win" if you have an afterlife. I don't know why you guys are doing this, but you're confusing "winning" at the wager with "winning the argument", which is totally not what Pascal's wager is for.

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

You have no argument supporting your distribution of number and payoff for god-claims, so I get to do the same. Maybe you should start trying?

For this instance, there is always the chance that a different flying spaghetti monster, or even whole a different god, will do the opposite.

Then your god will do the same. Why can't you see that, if you drew out a freaking chart, that your god would overlap with respect to its outcomes? You are adding in an extra god with no rationale, and it is excepted from that rule you continually give the rest of us. If FSM clones have counterparts, so does your god. You are just hiding behind your special pleading, but i don't buy into fallacious nonsense.

[Esternial]

Not getting it, are you?

An atheist would be totally okey with dying and going "nowhere", since it's kinda their thing. Wouldn't mind heaven, even though it would mean they're wrong. So looking at all these prospects, Atheists have a bigger chance of "winning".

You're the one that wanted to make it mathematical. Don't pout.

Being an Atheists means you have a bigger chance at getting a good outcome when you die, which is either no afterlife or a heaven.

I don't even know what to say to you. You can't "win" when you're in the unconscious, infinite, dark void that is death. You can't reflect at all. You won't know that you win unless you are not dead or are conscious. You can only "win" if you have an afterlife. I don't know why you guys are doing this, but you're confusing "winning" at the wager with "winning the argument", which is totally not what Pascal's wager is for.

You're already assuming the afterlife exists, whereas I'm keeping the option open.

You're making a predetermined assumption for your analysis.

Stop using "statistics" if you don't know how to use them.

[Arkolon]

The wager can be applied to any religion that has a God of (1,-1), so you could do that. I don't care what or who you believe in, but I just want to stop the atheist teenagers from smearing this "atheism is rational and logical" all over this corner of the Internet.

And I want to make sure you don't smear bullshit all over this place by doing so in the process.

I look out for everyone's best interest.

I'm sorry, but you can't really get on a high horse when two minutes ago you ultimately said that atheists would "win" if they didn't "win". Dead people can't "win" anything in the wager.

[Conscentia]

No, i was not. Now, your argument is mathmatically invalid. If you are going to stop your special pleading and not add in your most specialest god:
gods that send atheists to heaven (+x,-x)
gods that send christians to heaven (-x,+x)

sum = (0,0)


But the atheists "win" in the sense that christians are going to be wrong in almost all cases about what god exists.

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,0)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,0)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,0)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,-1)

What if there is no heaven, or no hell, or neither, or alternatives to both?

[Arkolon]

For this instance, there is always the chance that a different flying spaghetti monster, or even whole a different god, will do the opposite.

Then your god will do the same. Why can't you see that, if you drew out a freaking chart, that your god would overlap with respect to its outcomes? You are adding in an extra god with no rationale, and it is excepted from that rule you continually give the rest of us. If FSM clones have counterparts, so does your god. You are just hiding behind your special pleading, but i don't buy into fallacious nonsense.

G_(1,-1) is a "clone" of the Christian God. I explained this to you, like, five minutes ago.

[Arkolon]

I don't even know what to say to you. You can't "win" when you're in the unconscious, infinite, dark void that is death. You can't reflect at all. You won't know that you win unless you are not dead or are conscious. You can only "win" if you have an afterlife. I don't know why you guys are doing this, but you're confusing "winning" at the wager with "winning the argument", which is totally not what Pascal's wager is for.

You're already assuming the afterlife exists, whereas I'm keeping the option open.

No, I am assuming that there is a chance that the afterlife exists. Notice the (0,0) outcomes.

You're making a predetermined assumption for your analysis.

What?

Stop using "statistics" if you don't know how to use them.

This isn't even remotely linked to statistical mathematics. It's closer to game theory, decision theory, and economics.

[Arkolon]

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,0)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,0)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,0)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,-1)

What if there is no heaven, or no hell, or neither, or alternatives to both?

(0,0), and "heaven"/"hell" refer to "our" heaven and hell as well as all of their alternatives. Nirvana and heaven both fall under "heaven" in the wager, for instance.

[Esternial]

And I want to make sure you don't smear bullshit all over this place by doing so in the process.

I look out for everyone's best interest.

I'm sorry, but you can't really get on a high horse when two minutes ago you ultimately said that atheists would "win" if they didn't "win". Dead people can't "win" anything in the wager.

You and your friend were talking about winning. I was just analyzing your faulty logic and pointed out that fault.

Like how I'm pointing out how you're already assuming the afterlife exists to determine your analysis whereas I am not. I've held an objective "afterlife may or may not exists" in the back of my head when reviewing your figures. You have not.

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

Then your god will do the same. Why can't you see that, if you drew out a freaking chart, that your god would overlap with respect to its outcomes? You are adding in an extra god with no rationale, and it is excepted from that rule you continually give the rest of us. If FSM clones have counterparts, so does your god. You are just hiding behind your special pleading, but i don't buy into fallacious nonsense.

G_(1,-1) is a "clone" of the Christian God. I explained this to you, like, five minutes ago.

Yeah, so I added several thousand FSM clones. There is no distinction here. You added an extra outcome to suit your interests, so I am adding a ludicrous number of FSM clones in order to demonstrate your dishonesty, fallacy, and apologetics. If you want to stop that from happening, make a chart. You'll find that your clone has nowhere to fit.

[Arkolon]

G_(1,-1) is a "clone" of the Christian God. I explained this to you, like, five minutes ago.

Yeah, so I added several thousand FSM clones. There is no distinction here. You added an extra outcome to suit your interests, so I am adding a ludicrous number of FSM clones in order to demonstrate your dishonesty, fallacy, and apologetics. If you want to stop that from happening, make a chart. You'll find that your clone has nowhere to fit.

Christian God (1,-1)
No god (0,0)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to hell (1,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists nowhere (1,0)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to heaven (-1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists nowhere (-1,0)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to heaven (0,1)
God that sends all believers nowhere, atheists to hell (0,-1)
God that sends all believers to heaven, atheists to heaven (1,1)
God that sends all believers to hell, atheists to hell (-1,-1)
God that sends neither anywhere (0,0)

TOTAL: (1,-1)

[Davao and Mati]

It depends on the person but on my perspective as the Queen i am neutral as i fully support free of choice regarding religion.
-HM Queen Inday Sara of Davao and Mati

[Esternial]

You're already assuming the afterlife exists, whereas I'm keeping the option open.

No, I am assuming that there is a chance that the afterlife exists. Notice the (0,0) outcomes.

Okey, the way I look at your analysis is from a point in life where one would choice either atheism or Christianity. At this point, you don't know whether the afterlife exists or not. That's an uncertainty.

Atheists don't believe in the afterlife. If they die, they'd be okey with there being no afterlife. If they go to heaven, they'd be wrong, but still be in heaven. So "nothing" and "heaven" are outcomes they'd be okey with.

For Christians, only heaven would be the positive outcome.

Factor this into your analysis and you'll find that being an atheists has the biggest chance of not being disappointed when you die.