Environmentalists are hypocrites

[The Serbian Empire]

I may not be Enfaru, but I know of some places that are like what he described. Let's visit the UP and I'll show you mine shafts surrounded by forest where if you wait long enough you might come across a wolf or black bear.

I don't know if I wait to what that long XD. well that's the thing about forest and underground resources like that, so long as you take some modest responsibility (replanting trees, fix up the area surrounding the mine) i'm fine with it. We sorta need them though I worry what might happen when ores, coal, and others run out.

I'd be more worried about the coal mines in places such as the Saginaw Valley in Michigan which have long been abandoned or along the Appalachians. An old coal mine can collapse easily and often are located near towns...

[Fanosolia]

I don't know if I wait to what that long XD. well that's the thing about forest and underground resources like that, so long as you take some modest responsibility (replanting trees, fix up the area surrounding the mine) i'm fine with it. We sorta need them though I worry what might happen when ores, coal, and others run out.

I'd be more worried about the coal mines in places such as the Saginaw Valley in Michigan which have long been abandoned or along the Appalachians. An old coal mine can collapse easily and often are located near towns...

wow i just came off as inhumane

Yes this is a big problem. They just leave them abandon?

[Great Nepal]

The question is meaningless, whether or not environmentalists are hypocrites depends upon exact nature of their claims, their actions and context. For example someone who claims "we should reduce and eventually eliminate fossil fuels in vehicles" isn't an hypocrite for driving a sensible ford in rural area without good public transport links whereas an environmentalist making same claim driving 4x4 in London is.

[Jute]

I personally don't like the enviromentalists and there views on business are frankly pathetic but they do have a point

Green jobs exist, too. And not all have the same view on business, obviously.

[The Serbian Empire]

I'd be more worried about the coal mines in places such as the Saginaw Valley in Michigan which have long been abandoned or along the Appalachians. An old coal mine can collapse easily and often are located near towns...

wow i just came off as inhumane

Yes this is a big problem. They just leave them abandon?

They have been left alone for fifty some years in the Saginaw area and some of them are in danger of collapse dropping the surface some 20 feet.

[The Fraticelli Papacy]

I think a belief in banning the use of a product you use is inherently hypocritical. If no alternative exists, then you are proving the opposite point.

[Great Nepal]

I think a belief in banning the use of a product you use is inherently hypocritical. If no alternative exists, then you are proving the opposite point.

That doesn't make you hypocrite though, it merely makes you wrong.

[Fanosolia]

wow i just came off as inhumane

Yes this is a big problem. They just leave them abandon?

They have been left alone for fifty some years in the Saginaw area and some of them are in danger of collapse dropping the surface some 20 feet.

That's terrible. Anything can be done to make them not collapse. well, that you know of?

[Margno]

Here's how it works. I ask Gore about his private jets. He gives me a reason. I confront him with his arguments. He makes a counterargument. He confronts me about not recycling. I give him his counterargument back.

[Greater-London]

Not really, I mean its quite hard to live without using oil products. It's like calling all communists hypocrites because they participate in a capitalist economic system.

[Occupied Deutschland]

No, environmentalists aren't hypocritical for functioning in the modern world where oil-based and other similar products are ubiquitous.

They are hypocritical for certain things they oppose or support to 'combat' that, however. Ethanol, being an easy example for something stupid some self-proclaimed 'environmentalists' support. Nuclear energy and things like the Keystone pipeline being examples of things they oppose that would be environmentally beneficial.

if you think the keystone pipeline is good for the environment, you really don't know enough about the environment to tel who is a hypocrite.

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of railcars exploding and tanker trucks dumping unrefined oil into my water supply because it's the only way to transport the stuff.

[Jute]

if you think the keystone pipeline is good for the environment, you really don't know enough about the environment to tel who is a hypocrite.

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of railcars exploding and tanker trucks dumping unrefined oil into my water supply because it's the only way to transport the stuff.

Nuclear energy isn't really be beneficial... do you know how much CO2 is produced through uranium mining, and under which conditions? And with all the nuclear power stations that were never used or even completed, the two disasters and everything else, nuclear power ends up costing more than most other energy forms.

[Mushet]

Sometimes in societies less dependent on fossil fuels, people might have to be much further up in the socioeconomic pyramid in order to buy the eco-friendly stuff because we don't quite readily have the "gourmet hipster items" of capitalism in the Global South.

For example, most of Brazil's power production comes from hydroelectricity. Nevertheless, it's an absurd magnate lifestyle to seek alga-derived plastics, and even a solar panel or a wind turbine isn't accessible to, by far, the vast majority of people. Even organic-only food or decent sustainable home-building that wastes less resources both in the construction and the future functionality might be absurd pipedreams to lower and middle middle class folks.

I won't say that much of this is also to blame at bad government policy that takes protectionism to astronomical levels and doesn't fund stuff according to ever-changing standards, though. For example, it's more simple for you to develop pesticides than pest biocontrol here.

I think plenty of the homes in the favelas were built very sustainably from recycled materials

[Tule]

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of railcars exploding and tanker trucks dumping unrefined oil into my water supply because it's the only way to transport the stuff.

Nuclear energy isn't really be beneficial... do you know how much CO2 is produced through uranium mining, and under which conditions? And with all the nuclear power stations that were never used or even completed, the two disasters and everything else, nuclear power ends up costing more than most other energy forms.

A pretty big source of the cost of nuclear power these days is the constant stream of lawsuits from Anti-nuclear groups that cause construction delays, which drive up prices.
They are basically grabbing the nuclear industry by the arms, slapping the industry in the face with them and shouting "Stop hitting yourself!" This delays construction and drives up prices.

The public has a very irrational fear of the risk posed by radiation.
Did you know that the natural background radiation levels in Denver are so high that if they were measured near a nuclear power plant elsewhere in the US, standard procedure would be to evacuate the surrounding areas?
Did you know that the radiation levels in Chernobyl today are less dangerous to your health than urban smog in Britain?

But yet, people are scared shit less, and they demand a ridiculous level of redundancy and safety from the nuclear industry.

Nuclear Power Plants are big projects and take a lot of time. When you constantly harass the company building the Power Plant with bullshit lawsuits and constantly introduce needlessly stringent safety standards as the power plant is being built, you delay construction even more.

This increases the costs of nuclear powe plants dierctly, but the delay itself also increases apparent costs due to the effects of inflation. What looks like a huge cost overrun is usually exaggerated, the actual value of the currency being spent is less than the figures imply.

Uranium mining pollutes a bit, but not even close to the amount coal mining does. Uranium is very energy dense, you can produce a lot more power from one Uranium mine than you can from one Coal mine.

And again, even a "catastrophic" meltdown isn't really that costly in terms of public health.

[Socialist Czechia]

Genetically modified stuff is also nice topic for eco-fanatics.

"No one proved that GMO is always in every case safe in same time no one proved that GMO actually harmed anyone, therefore we must ban it totally." - THEIR flawed logic

[Fanosolia]

Genetically modified stuff is also nice topic for eco-fanatics.

"No one proved that GMO is always in every case safe in same time no one proved that GMO actually harmed anyone, therefore we must ban it totally." - THEIR flawed logic

Ah yesh forgot about this. Yeah genetically modified foods are not the problem, since really we've be doing it for years just not in a lab. Oh, I still rather eat something not lab made (since gmos was at first was aiding natural selection. One good example is the carrot) but I'm not going to deny anyone who wants to eat lab gmos. Also, I would like add that it's crap we put into our food that's a the problem (pesticides and the like).

[Tule]

Genetically modified stuff is also nice topic for eco-fanatics.

"No one proved that GMO is always in every case safe in same time no one proved that GMO actually harmed anyone, therefore we must ban it totally." - THEIR flawed logic

Ah yesh forgot about this. Yeah genetically modified foods are not the problem, since really we've be doing it for years just not in a lab. Oh, I still rather eat something not lab made (since gmos was at first was aiding natural selection. One good example is the carrot) but I'm not going to deny anyone who wants to eat lab gmos. Also, I would like add that it's crap we put into our food that's a the problem (pesticides and the like).

A shit ton of Non-GMO's aren't exactly good for our health either but we don't oppose them.

Me and many other environmentalists LOVE coconut oil. It's a tasty oil with a nice, nutty flavour.

It's a saturated fat however. Although there are some that disagree, the overwhelming consensus among nutritionists and doctors is that saturated fats are really bad for your arteries.
But never mind that, GMO's are fucking dangerous!

[Sociobiology]

if you think the keystone pipeline is good for the environment, you really don't know enough about the environment to tel who is a hypocrite.

Making gas cheaper than coal is a positive

which has what to do with the keystone? Keystone is used for tar-sand oil, one of the few things that actually burns dirtier than coal.
the keystone even includes closing several natural gas pipelines.

[Sociobiology]

They have been left alone for fifty some years in the Saginaw area and some of them are in danger of collapse dropping the surface some 20 feet.

That's terrible. Anything can be done to make them not collapse. well, that you know of?

sure you fill them back in, but that costs money.

[Sociobiology]

if you think the keystone pipeline is good for the environment, you really don't know enough about the environment to tel who is a hypocrite.

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of railcars exploding and tanker trucks dumping unrefined oil into my water supply because it's the only way to transport the stuff.

and you think pipelines don't do this?
several of our largest spills have been pipelines, and it pulls form some of dirtiest burning fuel on the planet.

[Sociobiology]

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of railcars exploding and tanker trucks dumping unrefined oil into my water supply because it's the only way to transport the stuff.

Nuclear energy isn't really be beneficial... do you know how much CO2 is produced through uranium mining, and under which conditions?

very little comparatively, and mostly from the mining machinery.

And with all the nuclear power stations that were never used or even completed, the two disasters and everything else, nuclear power ends up costing more than most other energy forms.

[/quote]
which is part of the price of a clean energy that can supply base load.
nuclear also has few accidents, they just get more press. more town have been permanently destroyed by coal than nuclear.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Oh lord, because nobody has ever been so creative as to come up with this facile line of attack before.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Genetically modified stuff is also nice topic for eco-fanatics.

"No one proved that GMO is always in every case safe in same time no one proved that GMO actually harmed anyone, therefore we must ban it totally." - THEIR flawed logic

Nobody can prove that the prevailing economic system will create and deploy so-called "GMO products" in ways that will be of overall benefit. It makes little sense for a capitalist to think about the environment and social health, given how they've put us in the position of killing our planet thus far.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Nobody can prove that the prevailing economic system will create and deploy so-called "GMO products" in ways that will be of overall benefit. It makes little sense for a capitalist to think about the environment and social health, given how they've put us in the position of killing our planet thus far.

This.

I am not mistrustful of GMOs for most health reasons, mind you, but when it comes to crop biodiversity and the environment? Sure as fuck I am.

[Tule]

Nobody can prove that the prevailing economic system will create and deploy so-called "GMO products" in ways that will be of overall benefit. It makes little sense for a capitalist to think about the environment and social health, given how they've put us in the position of killing our planet thus far.

This.

I am not mistrustful of GMOs for most health reasons, mind you, but when it comes to crop biodiversity and the environment? Sure as fuck I am.

That's not a problem unique to GMO's.