Prostitution: What do you think of it ?

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Nah, these are just preconceived ideas. You need to let go of prudishness and understand that sex is an activity like any other, including as far as morality and humanity is concerned. You wouldn't make the argument that you're "dehumanizing" a handyman by paying them to do something for you, would you now?

You are if all you see them as is a set of tools.

Geesh, just because you have someone work for you doesn't mean you have to be an asshole or "only see them as a set of tools" or that you should feel sorry for having them work for you.

For instance, paying them a pittance of what theor labor and skills necessitate? Dehumanizing.

This is especially invalid for sex workers esp. if they are self-employed. Idk about after legalization (after legalizing something the price always drops and quality increases), but right now, yeah, what I said.

Utilizing the services offered and then pretending that person never egaged in a mutually beneficial relationship with you should you ever happen across them again? Dehumanizing.

No one said you should do that. Because of the nature of our society, however, where monogamy is pretty much universally expected for medium-long term relationships, many (if not all) clients who are in a relationship have a legitimate interest in NOT keeping in contact with sex workers and NOT acknowledge anything should they come across them again. If this were not the case, it would be a job like any other, and no one (assholes/narcissists aside) pretends they "never engaged in a mutually beneficial relationship" whenever they meet that someone who's worked for them.

Utilizing the services rendered and taking credit for the services with your spouse (a secret exchange)? Dehumanizing.

lolwut?

[Socialist Tera]

Which is why a cultural revolution would be needed.

Well that escalated quickly. I think that I might be misunderstanding what you are saying. Care to clarify what is entailed in a social revolution?

A cultural revolution is basically changing to way culture is. Removing harmful culture from society, sexism, homophobia, racism etc.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

You don't know anger until you see 12 year olds used as prostitutes in Cambodia and know it's legal there. There is no way that is morally right. In my opinion any one that thinks that it is should have to look that little girl right in the eyes and tell her that what she's doing or what happens to her is fine. It's not fine. You have no soul if you think it is IMO. This is one of the few things that I am truly pasdionate about

Thanks a lot for your wonderful strawman. I'm 99 to 99.(9)% no one in this thread has supported child prostitution.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

There are a few people who legitimately want to do it. Most prostitutes are women who are forced to do the work or starve or they are sex slaves. I feel sorry they have to sell their bodies for money.

Source?

[Firsthome]

You don't know anger until you see 12 year olds used as prostitutes in Cambodia and know it's legal there. There is no way that is morally right. In my opinion any one that thinks that it is should have to look that little girl right in the eyes and tell her that what she's doing or what happens to her is fine. It's not fine. You have no soul if you think it is IMO. This is one of the few things that I am truly pasdionate about

Thanks a lot for your wonderful strawman. I'm 99 to 99.(9)% no one in this thread has supported child prostitution.

I don't support child prostitution , but that depends on your opinion of child

I think someone us a child until 23, but should be able to vote at 15-16

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Thanks a lot for your wonderful strawman. I'm 99 to 99.(9)% no one in this thread has supported child prostitution.

I don't support child prostitution , but that depends on your opinion of child

I think someone us a child until 23, but should be able to vote at 15-16

16 is about as low as I would go for considering someone an "adult". Then again, minimum age for consent should be at about 15, ideally as soon as someone is deemed capable of understanding their actions and their consequences (but this is hard to enforce).

[Distruzio]

You are if all you see them as is a set of tools. For instance, paying them a pittance of what theor labor and skills necessitate? Dehumanizing. Utilizing the services offered and then pretending that person never egaged in a mutually beneficial relationship with you should you ever happen across them again? Dehumanizing. Utilizing the services rendered and taking credit for the services with your spouse (a secret exchange)? Dehumanizing.

As to paying them what their skills and labor necessitate, everyone can cook but a fry cook at McDonalds makes much less then the chef at Antoine's, and it would be no different in this field. Skill, effort, and talent will always be paid more than average. If prostitution were legal and recognized as a skilled trade, there would be no more reason to ignore a person with whom you contracted than there is with your stock broker, and the same would eliminate the desire to maintain secrecy in the transaction.

In short, it seems to me that all the reasons you mentioned are excellent reasons to legalize, regulate, and recognize prostitution as a skilled trade, just like cooking or singing.

Indeed. Quite true. Which suggests....?

[Distruzio]

You are if all you see them as is a set of tools.

Geesh, just because you have someone work for you doesn't mean you have to be an asshole or "only see them as a set of tools" or that you should feel sorry for having them work for you.

For instance, paying them a pittance of what theor labor and skills necessitate? Dehumanizing.

This is especially invalid for sex workers esp. if they are self-employed. Idk about after legalization (after legalizing something the price always drops and quality increases), but right now, yeah, what I said.

Utilizing the services offered and then pretending that person never egaged in a mutually beneficial relationship with you should you ever happen across them again? Dehumanizing.

No one said you should do that. Because of the nature of our society, however, where monogamy is pretty much universally expected for medium-long term relationships, many (if not all) clients who are in a relationship have a legitimate interest in NOT keeping in contact with sex workers and NOT acknowledge anything should they come across them again. If this were not the case, it would be a job like any other, and no one (assholes/narcissists aside) pretends they "never engaged in a mutually beneficial relationship" whenever they meet that someone who's worked for them.

Utilizing the services rendered and taking credit for the services with your spouse (a secret exchange)? Dehumanizing.

lolwut?

No one said you have to be an asshole, true. Im saying that when you are an asshole, you dehumanize another individual. This is no different in matters of sex than it is no other matters.

You arent really protesting my perspective; made clear with this response you offer.

Im not presenting an ideal world where sex workers are adored for their talents. Im saying that assholes dehumanize them. This id prefer a legal construct wherein those workers are not humiliated further by legal persecution. Theyre already being treated like shit socially. Limiting their options legally only makes their situation worse.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Prostitutes are pretty cool I guess.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Geesh, just because you have someone work for you doesn't mean you have to be an asshole or "only see them as a set of tools" or that you should feel sorry for having them work for you. This is especially invalid for sex workers esp. if they are self-employed. Idk about after legalization (after legalizing something the price always drops and quality increases), but right now, yeah, what I said. No one said you should do that. Because of the nature of our society, however, where monogamy is pretty much universally expected for medium-long term relationships, many (if not all) clients who are in a relationship have a legitimate interest in NOT keeping in contact with sex workers and NOT acknowledge anything should they come across them again. If this were not the case, it would be a job like any other, and no one (assholes/narcissists aside) pretends they "never engaged in a mutually beneficial relationship" whenever they meet that someone who's worked for them.

lolwut?

No one said you have to be an asshole, true. Im saying that when you are an asshole, you dehumanize another individual. This is no different in matters of sex than it is no other matters.

You arent really protesting my perspective; made clear with this response you offer.

Im not presenting an ideal world where sex workers are adored for their talents. Im saying that assholes dehumanize them. This id prefer a legal construct wherein those workers are not humiliated further by legal persecution. Theyre already being treated like shit socially. Limiting their options legally only makes their situation worse.

What makes you think that given legalization and enough time they wouldn't be treated like any other worker (which they already are by many if not most clients) ? In which case you wouldn't really have an argument, or would have an argument that you shouldn't however make just about sex workers but about all workers.

[Distruzio]

No one said you have to be an asshole, true. Im saying that when you are an asshole, you dehumanize another individual. This is no different in matters of sex than it is no other matters.

You arent really protesting my perspective; made clear with this response you offer.

Im not presenting an ideal world where sex workers are adored for their talents. Im saying that assholes dehumanize them. This id prefer a legal construct wherein those workers are not humiliated further by legal persecution. Theyre already being treated like shit socially. Limiting their options legally only makes their situation worse.

What makes you think that given legalization and enough time they wouldn't be treated like any other worker (which they already are by many if not most clients) ? In which case you wouldn't really have an argument, or would have an argument that you shouldn't however make just about sex workers but about all workers.

The scope of this discussion, however, does not include all workers. Thus my commentary remains quite relevant.

Im not suggesting that, long after legalization, prostitutes would not become contributing economic actors. Im suggesting that even though they provide a valued service they should be incentivized to seek opportunities in other industries. As it stands, the legal route right now punishes sex workers and traps them. Id rather see the legal shackles removed and the social stigma remain.

[Kelinfort]

Why? What's wrong with prostitution, especially when legalized?

E: You talk about "change", but you do realize that those things you'd want sex workers to get away from will simply be inexistent or at the very least extremely reduced considering legalization?

E2: It's pretty much as with drugs. 99% of the problem isn't even inherently there, it's created by the government.

Whats wrong with prostitution? Morality. Humanity.

A mutually beneficial trade it is. But a mutually beneficial trade thats immoral and dehumanizes the participants it is nonetheless.

I realize the issues with it will be greatly diminished, yes. But diminished is not absent.

Then how do you obviate the problem? It is impossible. We can legalise it, make it safe for the sex workers, provide better social services and a social safety net, counseling, empowerment, and everything, but there will still be sex workers, including some who enjoy their work.

[Distruzio]

Whats wrong with prostitution? Morality. Humanity.

A mutually beneficial trade it is. But a mutually beneficial trade thats immoral and dehumanizes the participants it is nonetheless.

I realize the issues with it will be greatly diminished, yes. But diminished is not absent.

Then how do you obviate the problem? It is impossible. We can legalise it, make it safe for the sex workers, provide better social services and a social safety net, counseling, empowerment, and everything, but there will still be sex workers, including some who enjoy their work.

Indeed. Such programs that i support.

That doesnt mean that i dont want the workers to feel a pressure to choose alternative paths. And THAT doesnt mean that i want to see workers punished for their chosen path.

[Kelinfort]

Then how do you obviate the problem? It is impossible. We can legalise it, make it safe for the sex workers, provide better social services and a social safety net, counseling, empowerment, and everything, but there will still be sex workers, including some who enjoy their work.

Indeed. Such programs that i support.

That doesnt mean that i dont want the workers to feel a pressure to choose alternative paths. And THAT doesnt mean that i want to see workers punished for their chosen path.

Well that seems fair enough, especially considering it would destroy many of the dehumanising aspects of prositution, which are usually due to economic insecurity.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

What makes you think that given legalization and enough time they wouldn't be treated like any other worker (which they already are by many if not most clients) ? In which case you wouldn't really have an argument, or would have an argument that you shouldn't however make just about sex workers but about all workers.

The scope of this discussion, however, does not include all workers. Thus my commentary remains quite relevant.

Im not suggesting that, long after legalization, prostitutes would not become contributing economic actors. Im suggesting that even though they provide a valued service they should be incentivized to seek opportunities in other industries. As it stands, the legal route right now punishes sex workers and traps them. Id rather see the legal shackles removed and the social stigma remain.

But why? It would be denying the fact that sex is an activity like any other, a fact that should be agreed upon by most after before legalization (assuming democracy works the least bit)

[Manisdog]

Ok since nobody is taking this line but I was hoping somebody else would say, you by virtue all sex is prostitution, you are giving something in order to get something, I think atleast prostitutes are honest about their exchange and do not hide the hidden costs , I think it should be legalized

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Ok since nobody is taking this line but I was hoping somebody else would say, you by virtue all sex is prostitution, you are giving something in order to get something, I think atleast prostitutes are honest about their exchange and do not hide the hidden costs , I think it should be legalized

so much this.

[SaintB]

Legalize and regulate. Its going to happen whether legal or not but if it has regulations and safeguards than it ultimately harms less people and can safeguard against sex slavery and trafficking. When the whole trade is underground all it does is create a wild west scenario where anything can and will go.

[Distruzio]

The scope of this discussion, however, does not include all workers. Thus my commentary remains quite relevant.

Im not suggesting that, long after legalization, prostitutes would not become contributing economic actors. Im suggesting that even though they provide a valued service they should be incentivized to seek opportunities in other industries. As it stands, the legal route right now punishes sex workers and traps them. Id rather see the legal shackles removed and the social stigma remain.

But why? It would be denying the fact that sex is an activity like any other, a fact that should be agreed upon by most after before legalization (assuming democracy works the least bit)

agreed. But we have to recall that economic activity and profitability are rarely reason enough for societal approval. Slavery, for instance, was grossly inefficient for a great time after industrialization yet societies maintained slavery. War is unbelievably destructive to economic efficiency yet all societies approve the activity. Prostitution is no different.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

But why? It would be denying the fact that sex is an activity like any other, a fact that should be agreed upon by most after before legalization (assuming democracy works the least bit)

agreed. But we have to recall that economic activity and profitability are rarely reason enough for societal approval. Slavery, for instance, was grossly inefficient for a great time after industrialization yet societies maintained slavery. War is unbelievably destructive to economic efficiency yet all societies approve the activity. Prostitution is no different.

You're giving counterexamples to yourself lol. Economics would most probably be a secondary reason considering the expected sexual liberation by the time such a change would take place at a large scale.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Ok since nobody is taking this line but I was hoping somebody else would say, you by virtue all sex is prostitution, you are giving something in order to get something, I think atleast prostitutes are honest about their exchange and do not hide the hidden costs , I think it should be legalized

Some people actually have sex just for the hell of it... *looks at dating apps*

[Coccygia]

It should be legal, which would (or at least could) eliminate the worst aspects of it. For one thing you wouldn't need pimps. Do it like Amsterdam, the women set up shop and keep the money they make. That said I am not one of these idiot liberals who think it's just a wonderful, empowering means of making a living. I was disabused of this idea, not that I ever really held it, after hearing an interview with a woman who'd written a book about the Chicken Ranch in Nevada. She said that on a typical day the girls do 8 clients (6 would be slow). Call me a fuddy-duddy, but that seems like a lot of total strangers to have sex with in one day. Hell, who even masturbates 8 times a day?*


*I did once read about a guy who did it 30 times a day - he even had an electric bell hooked up to his penis so he'd never miss an erection in his sleep.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Hell, who even masturbates 8 times a day?

o/

[Galloism]

It should be legal, which would (or at least could) eliminate the worst aspects of it. For one thing you wouldn't need pimps. Do it like Amsterdam, the women set up shop and keep the money they make. That said I am not one of these idiot liberals who think it's just a wonderful, empowering means of making a living. I was disabused of this idea, not that I ever really held it, after hearing an interview with a woman who'd written a book about the Chicken Ranch in Nevada. She said that on a typical day the girls do 8 clients (6 would be slow). Call me a fuddy-duddy, but that seems like a lot of total strangers to have sex with in one day. Hell, who even masturbates 8 times a day?*


*I did once read about a guy who did it 30 times a day - he even had an electric bell hooked up to his penis so he'd never miss an erection in his sleep.

*writes this down*

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

It should be legal, which would (or at least could) eliminate the worst aspects of it. For one thing you wouldn't need pimps. Do it like Amsterdam, the women set up shop and keep the money they make. That said I am not one of these idiot liberals who think it's just a wonderful, empowering means of making a living. I was disabused of this idea, not that I ever really held it, after hearing an interview with a woman who'd written a book about the Chicken Ranch in Nevada. She said that on a typical day the girls do 8 clients (6 would be slow). Call me a fuddy-duddy, but that seems like a lot of total strangers to have sex with in one day. Hell, who even masturbates 8 times a day?*


*I did once read about a guy who did it 30 times a day - he even had an electric bell hooked up to his penis so he'd never miss an erection in his sleep.

I agree, though most prostitutes don't do 8 clients a day, but it all depends on how the prostitute plans her hours. how much she asks and how much she can do at a day.
Over here (Netherlands) its very wierd for a prostitute to do 8 clients a day. Most would stick under the five and there are even alot of prostitutes that don't even do more then one client a day or a week.

Also, there was a guy in Brazil who actually died after jerking of 42 times in a row...