Prostitution: What do you think of it ?

[The Seleucids (Ancient)]

1.You ever thought about the fact that some woman want to be a prostitute? I agree that alot of poor woman do it as a last resort, but prostitution is far from slavery. Don't think that the world ends at you own nations borders. There are countries where its legal and regulated, minimizing forced prostitutiion and other backwards stuff that could happen.
2.So prostitutes don't have dignity?
3.Prostitutes are far from an object, even from the perspective as their clients. Clients want fun, if the prostitute doesnt have fun (being an object) the client won't have fun either.
4.bought and sold?
5.Woman are human beings who are perfectly capable of making their own decisions!

Some links against prostitution legalization:
http://www.isha.org.il/eng/docs/p180/
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/lega ... g-business
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhvlegal.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html
http://stopprostitution.net/legalizatio ... oesnt-work

1. How many? Prostitution is slavery. When you sell your body you are a slave. In Germany where prostitution is legalized, there has been no justice for these poor women and men. There has only been a green card given for more control over their lives. Why can we not guarantee these women good professional jobs like factory workers, doctors, CEOs, or other respectable jobs they deserve. Should we legalize and regulate slavery or indentured service as well? Prostitution is the epitome of male dominance over women, they only see them as commodities. This goes for male prostitutes as well.

2. They don't have the dignity they deserve as women and men because people enslave them and strip their rights away. The very idea that sex is a thing you can pay for, that it is a commodity, is despicable. If society is to truly progress, people or their bodies must not be for sale. We must help these people get out of prostitution and into the normal economy. We should not punish them, for it is not their fault. They need society's help.

3.Prostitutes are objects to others, even if they say they don't see them that way. When you reduce people to a service to be paid for, they become objects. This is not right. People are not services, we can achieve gender equality if they become services. Clients should not demand "fun" from others. If they want this "fun", like everything in life they must earn it, not with money but through love and dedication to another man or woman.

4. Prostitution is a service. It is also slavery. People pay the prostitutes for sex, they prostitutes often are forced to comply because they can be punished if they don't. They become objects and the clients take their dignity as humans away. This is wrong, people are not commodities.

5. They are. Women and men are fully independent and can make their own decisions. But there comes a point when you must realize that this has been forced on people. Prostitution is not voluntary. They are forced into it, because we as a society have failed them. We have not provided good jobs and helped those who are stuck in it. We must help them get out and help achieve their full potential. We as a people, must do no less for other members of society.

I do not want to see prostitutes punished, like I said before they need our help to get out. Legalization will only entrench the slavery. We must oppose slavery in all it's forms. All these carnal desires are a stain on humanity, human rights, and even democracy.

1. I do not agree. First of all, if selling your body would be considered slavery then you could also consider boxing, wrestling and living statues as slavery. But that's not the case, a prostitute, just like all other people, uses her/his body to do a job. They don't sell their body, they sell a service. Those two aren't the same.
What if a woman doesn't want or can't be a factory worker, doctor or CEO and wants to be a prostitute? The only thing you want is to ban a woman from making such decision.
Another note on that, prostitution is a respectable job.
Again, no, prostitution isn't even near the fantasie of male dominance over women. For a small minority, perhaps, but the vast majority of men who visit prostitutes just want a good time with a fine lady, there's no diminance or anything like that involved. And at last, no, most clients do not see a prostitute as a commodity.

2. They do have dignity, even more so then the averange person i would say and they do have the very same rights as any other person.
So you're again suggesting that a person doesn't have the right to chose the job he/she wants to do and you rather place them in some kind of corner in which they do not want to be. If anyone here is promoting slavery then its you.

3. No they aren't objects, and you can say whatever you want but tell me, how can you say what the clients think? How could you even say that without having talked or having visited a prostitute?
So you're suggesting that those who aren't able or don't want to get a girlfriend/wife should just not have sex? Once again this looks more like slavery to me then prostitution does.

4. You keep repeating yourself... Prostitutes are not slaves, (if properly legalized) forced, (if properly legalized) punished, objects or commodities. And yes, Prositutes do have dignity.

5. Realize this has been forced upon people? If a woman makes the decision to be a prostitute, its automaticly forced upon her? Just to make an example of how ignorent you sound: if a person decides to be a construction worker he/she's forced into it. That's exactly what you are saying, which is just pahtetic.
So you rather see a person having a job on its potention while the person being unhappy with that job then a person who has a job he/she likes? Good to know how much you care about people's own choices.

Here some links on prostitues (Dutch ones and yes its all in Dutch) who do the job becouse they want to, no slavery is involved at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFDeVEEJ51E (Interview with an escort lady; there are more episodes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_CkjfnFP4U (Red Light district, see other parts aswell)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA4R6veig6U (Another video of a woman working at a red light district, in the video she shows her working space and all that comes with it. In the video she teaches people at schools about prostitution)

This isn't really true...
The vast majority of clients are still looking for just casual sex. Now sure there are people who want all kinds of wierd and yeah sometimes disgusting stuff, though a prostitute can refuse any client she wants, she can set her own rules on what she does and what she doesn't.

I mean people can be disgusting. As in physically unappealing and mouthbreathing.

As I have several friends who are prostitutes, I'm confident that I'm underselling their opinions.

True, butthen again, a prostitutes can Always (if she works for her own) refuse a client.

[Olerand]

I don't find prostitution to be a regular, mundane, job like any other. Even though I recognize that some do decide simply to become prostitutes, the majority of prostitutes in France, at least appear, to not have chosen this way of life, not willingly. Something or someone, if not illegally, then economically, made them chose it.

Regardless, I support legalizing and regulating this practice, so as to best protect the workers. Clearly, prohibition and such do not work, so it would be best to regulate it.

I support allowing prostitutes to practice their profession in maisons-closes, or brothels, that I think should be owned by co-operatives. So the prostitutes who work there will also be the "owners", and there won't be a madame or "pimp".

[Rebellious Fishermen]

Normal people.

I don't really care about prostitution although I don't think its good for either party involved.

[Xeng He]

Some links against prostitution legalization:
http://www.isha.org.il/eng/docs/p180/
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/lega ... g-business
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhvlegal.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html
http://stopprostitution.net/legalizatio ... oesnt-work

If it's fine by you, I'm going to address just one of theses links fully. They say roughly the same stuff and one of them is far more detailed than the others.

0 Reasons for Not Legalizing Prostitution
Coalition Against Trafficking in Women International (CATW)
(March 25, 2003)

(The following arguments apply to all state-sponsored forms of prostitution, including but not limited to full-scale legalization of brothels and pimping, decriminalization of the sex industry, regulating prostitution by laws such as registering or mandating health checks for women in prostitution, or any system in which prostitution is recognized as “sex work” or advocated as an employment choice).

1. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution is a gift to pimps, traffickers and the sex industry.

What does legalization of prostitution or decriminalization of the sex industry mean? In the Netherlands, legalization amounts to sanctioning all aspects of the sex industry: the women themselves, the so-called “clients,” and the pimps who, under the regime of legalization, are transformed into third party businessmen and legitimate sexual entrepreneurs.

Legalization/decriminalization of the sex industry also converts brothels, sex clubs, massage parlors and other sites of prostitution activities into legitimate venues where commercial sexual acts are allowed to flourish legally with few restraints.

Ordinary people believe that, in calling for legalization or decriminalization of prostitution, they are dignifying and professionalizing the women in prostitution. But dignifying prostitution as work doesn’t dignify the women, it simply dignifies the sex industry. People often don’t realize that decriminalization, for example, means decriminalization of the whole sex industry not just the women. And they haven’t thought through the consequences of legalizing pimps as legitimate sex entrepreneurs or third party businessmen, or the fact that men who buy women for sexual activity are now accepted as legitimate consumers of sex.

To this first part, I will raise a similar question to the one it raises: Who are the Pimps?

By and large, what it seems like to me, looking on the outside of all this, is that they're the same people overall who were running the sex industry while things were illegal, and their proteges, and even if not I can certainly suggest that we might be able to narrow down the type of people a bit--I mean, all the people in these anti-prostitution organizations probably aren't pimps, for instance.

We have in the Netherlands a unique opportunity to, through the immediate arrest of these legal pimps and the like and their replacement with other sorts of officials, at least create a temporary solution to the problem of abuse from the brothel-owners, although dealing with clients is harder (though also possible).

2. Legalization/decriminalization of prostitution and the sex industry promotes sex trafficking.

Legalized or decriminalized prostitution industries are one of the root causes of sex trafficking. One argument for legalizing prostitution in the Netherlands was that legalization would help end the exploitation of desperate immigrant women trafficked for prostitution. A report done for the governmental Budapest Group* stated that 80% of women in the brothels in the Netherlands are trafficked from other countries (Budapest Group, 1999: 11). As early as 1994, the International Organization of Migration (IOM) stated that in the Netherlands alone, “nearly 70 per cent of trafficked women were from CEEC [Central and Eastern European Countries]” (IOM, 1995: 4).

The government of the Netherlands promotes itself as the champion of anti-trafficking policies and programs, yet cynically has removed every legal impediment to pimping, procurement and brothels. In the year 2000, the Dutch Ministry of Justice argued for a legal quota of foreign “sex workers,” because the Dutch prostitution market demands a variety of “bodies” (Dutting, 2001: 16). Also in the year 2000, the Dutch government sought and received a judgment from the European Court recognizing prostitution as an economic activity, thus enabling women from the EU and former Soviet bloc countries to obtain working permits as “sex workers” in the Dutch sex industry if they can prove that they are self employed. NGOs in the Netherlands have stated that traffickers are taking advantage of this ruling to bring foreign women into the Dutch prostitution industry by masking the fact that women have been trafficked, and by coaching the women how to prove that they are self-employed “migrant sex workers.”

In January, 2002, prostitution in Germany was fully established as a legitimate job after years of being legalized in so-called eros or tolerance zones. Promotion of prostitution, pimping and brothels are now legal in Germany. As early as 1993, after the first steps towards legalization had been taken, it was recognized (even by pro-prostitution advocates) that 75 per cent of the women in Germany’s prostitution industry were foreigners from Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay and other countries in South America (Altink, 1993: 33). After the fall of the Berlin wall, brothel owners reported that 9 out of every 10 women in the German sex industry were from eastern Europe (Altink, 1993: 43) and other former Soviet countries.

The sheer volume of foreign women who are in the prostitution industry in Germany by some NGO estimates now up to 85 per cent casts further doubt on the fact that these numbers of women could have entered Germany without facilitation. As in the Netherlands, NGOs report that most of the foreign women have been trafficked into the country since it is almost impossible for poor women to facilitate their own migration, underwrite the costs of travel and travel documents, and set themselves up in business without outside help.

The link between legalization of prostitution and trafficking in Australia was recognized in the U.S. State Department’s 1999 Country Report on Human Rights Practices, released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor. In the country report on Australia, it was noted that in the State of Victoria which legalized prostitution in the 1980s, “Trafficking in East Asian women for the sex trade is a growing problem” in Australia…lax laws including legalized prostitution in parts of the country make [anti-trafficking] enforcement difficult at the working level.

I'm almost tempted to answer this with "So make it harder for foreign women to become prostitutes, don't ban the whole thing.", and that would be the gist of my answer, but I feel somewhat compelled to explain what I mean.

One could, for instance, route all women purportedly seeking to become prostitutes into abused women's shelters for a month after their arrival, to get them away from any potential traffickers for long enough for the truth to out. This might result only in further submerging of the true motivation, but that was first of all already possible within a system of illegal prostitution and also wouldn't be true across the board allowing a slight number of actual trafficking victims to get the help they need.

Now, you might argue that even though that was already possible under an illegal system, there were fewer places to receive these trafficked prostitutes, due to point #3. Well, I'm getting to that next.

3. Legalization does not control the sex industry. It expands it.

Contrary to claims that legalization and decriminalization would regulate the expansion of the sex industry and bring it under control, the sex industry now accounts for 5 percent of the Netherlands economy (Daley, 2001: 4). Over the last decade, as pimping became legalized and then brothels decriminalized in the Netherlands in 2000, the sex industry expanded 25 percent (Daley, 2001: 4). At any hour of the day, women of all ages and races, dressed in hardly anything, are put on display in the notorious windows of Dutch brothels and sex clubs and offered for sale -- for male consumption. Most of them are women from other countries (Daley, 2001: 4) who have in all likelihood been trafficked into the Netherlands.

Legalization of prostitution in the State of Victoria, Australia, has led to massive expansion of the sex industry. Whereas there were 40 legal brothels in Victoria in 1989, in 1999 there were 94, along with 84 escort services. Other forms of sexual exploitation, such as tabletop dancing, bondage and discipline centers, peep shows, phone sex, and pornography have all developed in much more profitable ways than before (Sullivan and Jeffreys, 20021).

Prostitution has become an accepted sideline of the tourism and casino boom in Victoria with government-sponsored casinos authorizing the redeeming of casino chips and wheel of fortune bonuses at local brothels (Sullivan and Jeffreys, 2001). The commodification of women has vastly intensified and is much more visible.

The Dutch have already started implementing the solution this, actually. Things get too big for a country's tastes, they close a few down. Maybe route a few of those women into abused shelters.

4. Legalization increases clandestine, hidden, illegal and street prostitution.

Legalization was supposed to get prostituted women off the street. Many women don’t want to register and undergo health checks, as required by law in certain countries legalizing prostitution, so legalization often drives them into street prostitution. And many women choose street prostitution because they want to avoid being controlled and exploited by the new sex “businessmen.”

In the Netherlands, women in prostitution point out that legalization or decriminalization of the sex industry cannot erase the stigma of prostitution but, instead, makes women more vulnerable to abuse because they must register and lose anonymity. Thus, the majority of women in prostitution still choose to operate illegally and underground. Members of Parliament who originally supported the legalization of brothels on the grounds that this would liberate women are now seeing that legalization actually reinforces the oppression of women (Daley, 2001: A1).

The argument that legalization was supposed to take the criminal elements out of sex businesses by strict regulation of the industry has failed. The real growth in prostitution in Australia since legalization took effect has been in the illegal sector. Since the onset of legalization in Victoria, brothels have tripled in number and expanded in size the vast majority having no licenses but advertising and operating with impunity (Sullivan and Jeffreys, 2001). In New South Wales, brothels were decriminalized in 1995. In 1999, the numbers of brothels in Sydney had increased exponentially to 400-500. The vast majority have no license to operate. Control of illegal prostitution was taken out of the hands of the police, to end endemic police corruption, and placed in the hands of local councils and planning regulators. The council has neither the money nor the personnel to put investigators into brothels so that illegal operators can be prosecuted.

The first question that pops into my mind is this: If it's well known to the people involved in this article (and those making the study it cites), that these brothels have no licenses, how hard could it possibly be for some trained police or inspectors to figure this out?

As for the street parts...well, good for them? If they're moving out to avoid the abuse of pimps, that's beneficial, isn't it? I mean, you might have some problems with clients, but I'm seeing not quite as much spillover from individuals acting on their own.

I literally don't get the first part. What kinds of abuse do they risk by registering?

5. Legalization of prostitution and decriminalization of the sex industry increases child prostitution.

Another argument for legalizing prostitution in the Netherlands was that it would help end child prostitution. In reality, however, child prostitution in the Netherlands has increased dramatically during the 1990s. The Amsterdam-based ChildRight organization estimates that the number has gone from 4,000 children in 1996 to 15,000 in 2001. The group estimates that at least 5,000 of the children in prostitution are from other countries, with a large segment being Nigerian girls (Tiggeloven, 2001).

Child prostitution has dramatically risen in Victoria compared to other Australian states where prostitution has not been legalized. Of all the states and territories in Australia, the highest number of reported incidences of child prostitution came from Victoria. In a 1998 study undertaken by ECPAT (End Child Prostitution and Trafficking) who conducted research for the Australian National Inquiry on Child Prostitution, there was increased evidence of organized commercial exploitation of children.

Largely, my points in the previous responses solve this problem.

6. Legalization of prostitution does not protect the women in prostitution.

The Coalition Against Trafficking in Women International (CATW) has conducted 2 major studies on sex trafficking and prostitution, interviewing almost 200 victims of commercial sexual exploitation. In these studies, women in prostitution indicated that prostitution establishments did little to protect them, regardless of whether they were in legal or illegal establishments. “The only time they protect anyone is to protect the customers.”

In a CATW 5-country study that interviewed 146 victims of international trafficking and local prostitution, 80% of all women interviewed suffered physical violence from pimps and buyers) and endured similar and multiple health effects from the violence and sexual exploitation (Raymond et al, 2002).

The violence that women were subjected to was an intrinsic part of the prostitution and sexual exploitation. Pimps used violence for many different reasons and purposes. Violence was used to initiate some women into prostitution and to break them down so that they would do the sexual acts. After initiation, at every step of the way, violence was used for sexual gratification of the pimps, as a form of punishment, to threaten and intimidate women, to exert the pimp’s dominance, to exact compliance, to punish women for alleged “violations,” to humiliate women, and to isolate and confine women.

Of the women who did report that sex establishments gave some protection, they qualified it by pointing out that no “protector” was ever in the room with them, where anything could occur. One woman who was in out-call prostitution stated: “The driver functioned as a bodyguard. You’re supposed to call when you get in, to ascertain that everything was OK. But they are not standing outside the door while you’re in there, so anything could happen.”

CATW’s studies found that even surveillance cameras in prostitution establishments are used to protect the establishment, but protection of the women from abuse is of secondary importance.

Again, my previous responses resolve this issue in many ways. Remove the pimps and put in some boring bureaucrat types, and the culture of the pimp is gone (at least to an extent), have much greater monitoring than is going on currently go on (because right now people aren't even bothering to check for licenses--that isn't regulation, that's rampant unregulation), and control the supply.

The boring bureaucrats may eventually become corrupt, but that'll take at least a century, so things can be dealt with then.

7. Legalization of prostitution increases the demand for prostitution. It boosts the motivation of men to buy women for sex in a much wider and more permissible range of socially acceptable settings.

With the advent of legalization in countries that have decriminalized the sex industry, many men who would not risk buying women for sex now see prostitution as acceptable. When the legal barriers disappear, so too do the social and ethical barriers to treating women as sexual commodities. Legalization of prostitution sends the message to new generations of men and boys that women are sexual commodities and that prostitution is harmless fun.

As men have an excess of sexual services that are offered to them, women must compete to provide services by engaging in anal sex, sex without condoms, bondage and domination and other proclivities demanded by the clients. Once prostitution is legalized, all holds are barred. Women’s reproductive capacities are sellable products, for example. A whole new group of clients find pregnancy a sexual turn-on and demand breast milk in their sexual encounters with pregnant women (Sullivan and Jeffreys, 2001).

Advertisements line the highways of Victoria offering women as objects for sexual use and teaching new generations of men and boys to treat women as subordinates. Businessmen are encouraged to hold their corporate meetings in these clubs where owners supply naked women on the table at tea breaks and lunchtime.

A Melbourne brothel owner stated that the client base was “well educated professional men, who visit during the day and then go home to their families.” Women who desire more egalitarian relationships with men find that often the men in their lives are visiting the brothels and sex clubs. They have the choice to accept that their male partners are buying women in commercial sexual transactions, avoid recognizing what their partners are doing, or leave the relationship (Sullivan and Jeffreys, 2001).

Sweden’s Violence Against Women, Government Bill 1997/98:55 prohibits and penalizes the purchase of “sexual services.” It is an innovative approach that targets the demand for prostitution. Sweden believes that “By prohibiting the purchase of sexual services, prostitution and its damaging effects can be counteracted more effectively than hitherto.” Importantly, this law clearly states that “Prostitution is not a desirable social phenomenon” and is “an obstacle to the ongoing development towards equality between women and men.”

1. Male prostitutes are/can be made a thing.
2. I don't see how a man's visiting a prostitute makes his relationship with a different woman "less egalitarian". Partially because of point 1
3. Have security in the actual room.

8. Legalization of prostitution does not promote women’s health.

A legalized system of prostitution that mandates health checks and certification only for women and not for clients is blatantly discriminatory to women. “Women only” health checks make no public health sense because monitoring prostituted women does not protect them from HIV/AIDS or STDs, since male “clients” can and do originally transmit disease to the women.

It is argued that legalized brothels or other “controlled” prostitution establishments “protect” women through enforceable condom policies. In one of CATW’s studies, U.S. women in prostitution interviewed reported the following: 47% stated that men expected sex without a condom; 73% reported that men offered to pay more for sex without a condom; 45% of women said they were abused if they insisted that men use condoms. Some women said that some establishments have rules that men wear condoms but, in reality, men still try to have sex without them. One woman stated: “It’s ‘regulation’ to wear a condom at the sauna, but negotiable between parties on the side. Most guys expected blow jobs without a condom (Raymond and Hughes, 2001)."

It's not discriminatory because prostitutes don't have to be female, and it's easier to monitor just them than test everyone, and I imagine they have easier access to the testing (partial payment coverage if registered, for instance) so it's still a net benefit for them.

In reality, the enforcement of condom policy was left to the individual women in prostitution, and the offer of extra money was an insistent pressure. One woman stated: “I’d be one of those liars if I said ‘Oh I always used a condom.’ If there was extra money coming in, then the condom would be out the window. I was looking for the extra money.” Many factors militate against condom use: the need of women to make money; older women’s decline in attractiveness to men; competition from places that do not require condoms; pimp pressure on women to have sex with no condom for more money; money needed for a drug habit or to pay off the pimp; and the general lack of control that prostituted women have over their bodies in prostitution venues.

Raise the prices through legal action (this will lower demand too), and have watchdogs monitor the pimp.

Socalled "safety policies" in brothels did not protect women from harm. Even where brothels supposedly monitored the "customers" and utilized "bouncers," women stated that they were injured by buyers and, at times, by brothel owners and their friends. Even when someone intervened to control buyers' abuse, women lived in a climate of fear. Although 60 percent of women reported that buyers had sometimes been prevented from abusing them, half of those women answered that, nonetheless, they thought that they might be killed by one of their "customers” (Raymond et al, 2002).

To an extent, this could be solved by (actual) monitoring and better security. To another, I might argue that one isn't actually that bad a number, especially given crap like Schrodinger's Rapist suggesting some people overreact.

9. Legalization of prostitution does not enhance women’s choice.

Most women in prostitution did not make a rational choice to enter prostitution. They did not sit down one day and decide that they wanted to be prostitutes. Rather, such “choices” are better termed “survival strategies.” Rather than consent, a prostituted woman more accurately complies to the only options available to her. Her compliance is required by the very fact of having to adapt to conditions of inequality that are set by the customer who pays her to do what he wants her to do.

Most of the women interviewed in CATW studies reported that choice in entering the sex industry could only be discussed in the context of the lack of other options. Most emphasized that women in prostitution had few other options. Many spoke about prostitution as the last option, or as an involuntary way of making ends meet. In one study, 67% of the law enforcement officials that CATW interviewed expressed the opinion that women did not enter prostitution voluntarily. 72% of the social service providers that CATW interviewed did not believe that women voluntarily choose to enter the sex industry (Raymond and Hughes, 2001) .

The distinction between forced and voluntary prostitution is precisely what the sex industry is promoting because it will give the industry more security and legal stability if these distinctions can be utilized to legalize prostitution, pimping and brothels. Women who bring charges against pimps and perpetrators will bear the burden of proving that they were “forced.” How will marginalized women ever be able to prove coercion? If prostituted women must prove that force was used in recruitment or in their “working conditions,” very few women in prostitution will have legal recourse and very few offenders will be prosecuted.

Women in prostitution must continually lie about their lives, their bodies, and their sexual responses. Lying is part of the job definition when the customer asks, “did you enjoy it?” The very edifice of prostitution is built on the lie that “women like it.” Some prostitution survivors have stated that it took them years after leaving prostitution to acknowledge that prostitution wasn’t a free choice because to deny their own capacity to choose was to deny themselves.

This is solvable simply by making Leaves of Absence a legitimate option for prostitutes, providing financial support for such things and, again, actually paying enough attention to a brothel to tell whether it's licensed or not.

There is no doubt that a small number of women say they choose to be in prostitution, especially in public contexts orchestrated by the sex industry. In the same way, some people choose to take dangerous drugs such as heroin. However, even when some people choose to take dangerous drugs, we still recognize that this kind of drug use is harmful to them, and most people do not seek to legalize heroin. In this situation, it is harm to the person, not the consent of the person that is the governing standard.

1. I do seek to legalize heroin.
2. I've laid out ways the harm level could be altered.

10. Women in systems of prostitution do not want prostitution legalized.

In a 5-country study on sex trafficking done by the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women and funded by the Ford Foundation, most of the 146 women interviewed strongly stated that prostitution should not be legalized and considered legitimate work, warning that legalization would create more risks and harm for women from already violent customer and pimps (Raymond et al, 2002). “No way. It’s not a profession. It is humiliating and violence from the men’s side.” Not one woman interviewed wanted her children, family or friends to have to earn money by entering the sex industry. One stated: “Prostitution stripped me of my life, my health, everything."

Well, to tie this back to an earlier post of mine, the same was said about employment by many a socialist factory worker once upon a time. Maybe it wasn't as many (maybe it was), but changing the conditions changed the thought a lot.

[Farnhamia]

A communist who happens to be a prude...the very idea.

Yeah, opposing mass systematized rape is being a "prude."

If your idea of sexuality finds prostitution, which is exploitation and violation on a scale you refuse to imagine, as acceptable, your idea of sexuality is gross and disgusting, and that doesn't make me a prude, it makes you gross and disgusting.

Nathi's warning yesterday doesn't seem to have made much impression on you. Perhaps a *** 1-day ban *** will.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Prostitution is a career I don't think very many people envisioned themselves doing when they wrote their fourth grade "When I Grow Up" essays. But never-the-less, it should be a viable alternative for people who find themselves unwilling to do other jobs they are capable of or otherwise choose to do so, so long as the rules of normal sex still apply: If its unwanted, it's rape. Boundaries are not to be crossed. Forcing anyone to do anything is illegal.

[Imperializt Russia]

How many times to we have to blast it in the conservatives' ears...

PROSTITUTION (Excluding forced prostitution, the REAL forced prostitution, not the chimeras you keep bringing up) IS NOT SLAVERY. Also, it's the world's oldest profession. Want to ban something that has existed for thousands of years ? Good luck with that.

I'm not a conservative, i am anti-slavery however. Hunting is actually the worlds oldest profession. regular slavery was old too and we still rightfully banned it. Stop supporting the enslavement of men and women.

By your logic, I own the house I live in because I rent one bedroom and a fraction of the toilet and a fraction of the kitchen.

[Empire of Vlissingen]

I don't like hoors, I like real love.

[Ostroeuropa]

I don't like hoors, I like real love.

People don't pay whores to love them.

[Lordieth]

Normal people. It's society and the legal system that make it sleazy. People have a right to sleep with who they wish, provided it's legal and consensual in every other aspect. Sex is a commodity. I don't really see any difference between selling sex, pornography, or anything else of the sort. It's not something I personally would buy, but then I don't buy a lot of things. It doesn't mean I disagree with them being sold.

[Firsthome]

I don't like hoors, I like real love.

People don't pay whores to love them.

Ignore him. He's probable only 13, considering he Cannot spell prostitute

[Ostroeuropa]

Normal people. It's society and the legal system that make it sleazy. People have a right to sleep with who they wish, provided it's legal and consensual in every other aspect. Sex is a commodity. I don't really see any difference between selling sex, pornography, or anything else of the sort. It's not something I personally would buy, but then I don't buy a lot of things. It doesn't mean I disagree with them being sold.

It's a service, not a commodity

[Lordieth]

Normal people. It's society and the legal system that make it sleazy. People have a right to sleep with who they wish, provided it's legal and consensual in every other aspect. Sex is a commodity. I don't really see any difference between selling sex, pornography, or anything else of the sort. It's not something I personally would buy, but then I don't buy a lot of things. It doesn't mean I disagree with them being sold.

It's a service, not a commodity

Yes, but you get the general gist of my point.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's a service, not a commodity

Yes, but you get the general gist of my point.

Yeh, I always have to remind people of it though because of that old texas shooter thread.

Rights to a service you have purchased can be terminated for a refund.
Rights to a commodity you now own cannot be.

(Old thread. Do Not Post.)
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=ostroeuropa&t=245130&sf=msgonly&ch=-1&start=25

Trigger warning, probably.

Basically, if sex were a commodity it would be fine to rape prostitutes after you pay them and they change their mind.
It's an important difference.

I know you don't mean that, I just get tetchy about it since that thread where this guy was arguing it was a commodity. (And didn't understand service.)

[Lordieth]

Yes, but you get the general gist of my point.

Yeh, I always have to remind people of it though because of that old texas shooter thread.

Rights to a service you have purchased can be terminated for a refund.
Rights to a commodity you now own cannot be.

(Old thread. Do Not Post.)
http://forum.nationstates.net/search.ph ... 1&start=25

Trigger warning, probably.

Basically, if sex were a commodity it would be fine to rape prostitutes after you pay them and they change their mind.
It's an important difference.

I know you don't mean that, I just get tetchy about it since that thread where this guy was arguing it was a commodity. (And didn't understand service.)

Yes, of course I meant service. I simply used the wrong term, there. You were right to point that out.

[Empire of Vlissingen]

People don't pay whores to love them.

Ignore him. He's probable only 13, considering he Cannot spell prostitute

Excuse me, I am 18 years old.

[CTALNH]

Ignore him. He's probable only 13, considering he Cannot spell prostitute

Excuse me, I am 18 years old.

You sure are doing a bang up job expressing that.

[-The Trade Federation-]

There's very little argument for some reason now, probably because we just smashed the floor with our pro-legalization opinions

[Calimera II]

People don't pay whores to love them.

Ignore him. He's probable only 13, considering he Cannot spell prostitute

Oh my fucking god.

You are only 15, so calm down.

[-The Trade Federation-]

Ignore him. He's probable only 13, considering he Cannot spell prostitute

Oh my fucking god.

You are only 15, so calm down.

I'm 15 also, yet I understand prostitution.

[CTALNH]

Oh my fucking god.

You are only 15, so calm down.

I'm 15 also, yet I understand prostitution.

You need first hand experience like I have had.

Actually take my word with a grain of salt do what you want.

[Tzarsgrad]

I feel that it should be legal, but something similar to the Hong Kong model, where prostitutes manage themselves. No pimps, no trafficking, no exploitation. Highly regulated, too, for health and safety reasons. Most of my problems with prostitution arise from its exploitation of those who work in the industry, male and female. Disease and violence are commonplace, and should these be reigned in, I could feasibly support it.

[Distruzio]

It shouldnt be criminalized. Marginalized and condemned culturally and socially? Yes. But criminalized? No.

[Firsthome]

Oh my fucking god.

You are only 15, so calm down.

I'm 15 also, yet I understand prostitution.

Same

[Calimera II]

I'm 15 also, yet I understand prostitution.

Same

''Umg ignore him he is only 13, I am 15 I am way better''