Asda faces mass legal action over equal pay for women

[Ostroeuropa]

Ah jeez, looks like Asda has been falling afoul of equal pay for equal wo-

The women claim they are not paid the same as male workers in the distribution warehouses - despite their jobs being of "equivalent value".

Oh.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29753702
Ohhhhh.

So now we're up to equal pay for unequal work.

So there's going to be legal action because Asda employs more women in retail, and more men in the warehouse.
The retailers are paid less than the warehouse workers.

Some of you may think "No shit, it's a more physically demanding job, carries more risk of injury or death, and they are often outside in all weathers, and requires things like a forklift license." but that would be sexist, because misogyny, because feminism.

While an argument can be made that traditionally female professions are underpaid compared to the traditionally male professions (And a counter-argument can be made that this is for good cause, and that the solution is to make those professions gender neutral, not overpay people doing less essential professions), this simply doesn't work on a working class in retail level. There, everyone is treated equally shit.
It's worth noting that the male retail employees have caught on that, they too can benefit from nonsensical ideologies, acting entitled, and throwing temper tantrums; and have decided to join the bandwagon for a pay raise by telling their bosses that they hate women if they refuse.
See? Feminism helps men after all! You just have to give up your principles first.

Should they get one? Yeh probably. But so should the warehouse workers.
(Some of whom, shocker, are women.)

What do you think NSG?

[Risottia]

So now we're up to equal pay for unequal work.

Different work, different pay. Makes sense.

[Conserative Morality]

One Asda store worker I spoke to said that the work was the same whether you were in the shop or in the warehouse - packing and unpacking pallets of clothes and food and putting stock on shelves, often through the night.

If that's true, they may have a case.

[Risottia]

One Asda store worker I spoke to said that the work was the same whether you were in the shop or in the warehouse - packing and unpacking pallets of clothes and food and putting stock on shelves, often through the night.

If that's true, they may have a case.

I don't guess so. The scale of the stuff one is shelving in the retail area is rather different from what happens in the warehouse.

[Dakini]

If that's true, they may have a case.

I don't guess so. The scale of the stuff one is shelving in the retail area is rather different from what happens in the warehouse.

It depends. In a warehouse, if you're lifting anything more than one box at a time, you've probably got them out on a pallet and you're lifting them with a forklift.

[Galloism]

I don't guess so. The scale of the stuff one is shelving in the retail area is rather different from what happens in the warehouse.

It depends. In a warehouse, if you're lifting anything more than one box at a time, you've probably got them out on a pallet and you're lifting them with a forklift.

Operating a forklift is a skill, and one generally you get paid more to do compared to general labor.

Unless they also operate forklifts in the retail side. I know nothing about their particular business.

[Dakini]

It depends. In a warehouse, if you're lifting anything more than one box at a time, you've probably got them out on a pallet and you're lifting them with a forklift.

Operating a forklift is a skill, and one generally you get paid more to do compared to general labor.

Unless they also operate forklifts in the retail side. I know nothing about their particular business.

I think ASDA is a grocery store. I've definitely seen grocery stores with forklifts in the back.

You're right that the forklift operators should get paid more because it's a skill though.

[Costa Fierro]

It depends. In a warehouse, if you're lifting anything more than one box at a time, you've probably got them out on a pallet and you're lifting them with a forklift.

Operating a forklift is a skill, and one generally you get paid more to do compared to general labor.

Unless they also operate forklifts in the retail side. I know nothing about their particular business.

Depends on the business. Asda is a supermarket chain with other retail businesses and is a subsidiary of Walmart.

[New Aerios]

Wait, so they're asking for equal pay but they're not even doing the same job? Yeah, that's totally sensible. While we're at it, let's pay the person who works in the dog food factory the same as Gordon Ramsay.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Why didn't they just apply for warehouse jobs?

[Tubbsalot]

that would be sexist, because misogyny, because feminism.

Oh those stupid women want to be more equal than men!! God what a bunch of frigid man-hating feminazis!!!!!! This is clearly another example of how feminism is actually about female supremacoh wait:

"The majority of those affected are women but interestingly, there are also some male employees working in the stores who are taking part in the process. They would also see a pay rise if the action taken on behalf of women under equal pay legislation is successful."

Oh no, nevermind, this has nothing to do with sex. Oops. Anyway, the point is Britain is about to be smothered beneath the dark pillow of Feminism and we are helpless to resisoh wait it's being ruled on by judges, and judges aren't mentally disabled and will probably make a reasonable decision after assessing the arguments and evidence available. Oh man, how embarrassing.

I get that you think sexism only hurts men, but it's like you have no desire to appear even vaguely credible.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Wait, so they're asking for equal pay but they're not even doing the same job? Yeah, that's totally sensible. While we're at it, let's pay the person who works in the dog food factory the same as Gordon Ramsay.

The case is about whether they do work of equivalent value, not whether they do the same job. I can certainly see that someone working in sales, someone working in clerical role, and someone working in a warehouse all have pretty similar value to an organisation, it couldn't do without any of them but they are all pretty low skilled low paid jobs.

[Applied Marks]

Ah jeez, looks like Asda has been falling afoul of equal pay for equal wo-

The women claim they are not paid the same as male workers in the distribution warehouses - despite their jobs being of "equivalent value".

Oh.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29753702
Ohhhhh.

So now we're up to equal pay for unequal work.

So there's going to be legal action because Asda employs more women in retail, and more men in the warehouse.
The retailers are paid less than the warehouse workers.

Some of you may think "No shit, it's a more physically demanding job, carries more risk of injury or death, and they are often outside in all weathers, and requires things like a forklift license." but that would be sexist, because misogyny, because feminism.

While an argument can be made that traditionally female professions are underpaid compared to the traditionally male professions (And a counter-argument can be made that this is for good cause, and that the solution is to make those professions gender neutral, not overpay people doing less essential professions), this simply doesn't work on a working class in retail level. There, everyone is treated equally shit.
It's worth noting that the male retail employees have caught on that, they too can benefit from nonsensical ideologies, acting entitled, and throwing temper tantrums; and have decided to join the bandwagon for a pay raise by telling their bosses that they hate women if they refuse.
See? Feminism helps men after all! You just have to give up your principles first.

Should they get one? Yeh probably. But so should the warehouse workers.
(Some of whom, shocker, are women.)

What do you think NSG?

We get it, Ost, you hate women. Enough already.

[Southern Hampshire]

Asda should sack the women who complain for complaining.

Feminists seem to think we live in some sort of a communist world where everyone gets the same pay.

Asda should have the same policy as the London Underground and McDonalds. If they moan, kick them out. Who are they to say how to run your company. If they have a case, let them present it, pay the compensation or the fine, and then fire them the hell out.

What a completely pussy country we live in where things like these happen and can be sued for. Stupid Labour.

I'm so happy that London Underground announced their trains from 2019 will be driverless, serves all those protesting 'drivers' right for their idiocy. I can only hope that Asda follows suit and removes their annoying workers, or automizes them. The sense of entitlement some particular people have for wages or for jobs is retarded and those particular people should be banned from having one at all, they are a waste of space.

[Applied Marks]

Asda should sack the women who complain for complaining.

Feminists seem to think we live in some sort of a communist world where everyone gets the same pay.

Asda should have the same policy as the London Underground and McDonalds. If they moan, kick them out. Who are they to say how to run your company. If they have a case, let them present it, pay the compensation or the fine, and then fire them the hell out.

What a completely pussy country we live in where things like these happen and can be sued for. Stupid Labour.

I'm so happy that London Underground announced their trains from 2019 will be driverless, serves all those protesting 'drivers' right for their idiocy. I can only hope that Asda follows suit and removes their annoying workers, or automizes them. The sense of entitlement some particular people have for wages or for jobs is retarded and those particular people should be banned from having one at all, they are a waste of space.

Right Wing compassion at it's finest.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Right Wing compassion at it's finest.

I was thinking more cluelessness. They don't appear to even know who is in government at the moment.

[Forsher]

Oh no, nevermind, this has nothing to do with sex.

Er, no?

The women claim they are not paid the same as male workers

There are three questions here. Firstly, are the retail employees paid fairly for what they do? (Likely not.) Secondly, under what circumstances can one justify paying warehouse employees more? Thirdly, whether or not female and male retail employees are paid the same? (This is more an interesting answer to have.)

Looking at that second question, in terms of what the company does, the warehouse and retail aspects can't really be separated in terms of one being more important than the other (it's chicken and the egg*). This is the position of the Asda employees (from what I've read). However, there's at least one different argument to make and that is that pay should reflect the difficulty of the job, and the warehouse one seems to be more difficult. This is the position of the OP. I'm not sure how I'd resolve this issue, when other forms of reward don't really seem appropriate.

*If you can't sell crap you don't need to distribute or store it. Likewise, if you can't do that then you have no crap to sell. *shrug*

[Southern Hampshire]

Asda should sack the women who complain for complaining.

Feminists seem to think we live in some sort of a communist world where everyone gets the same pay.

Asda should have the same policy as the London Underground and McDonalds. If they moan, kick them out. Who are they to say how to run your company. If they have a case, let them present it, pay the compensation or the fine, and then fire them the hell out.

What a completely pussy country we live in where things like these happen and can be sued for. Stupid Labour.

I'm so happy that London Underground announced their trains from 2019 will be driverless, serves all those protesting 'drivers' right for their idiocy. I can only hope that Asda follows suit and removes their annoying workers, or automizes them. The sense of entitlement some particular people have for wages or for jobs is retarded and those particular people should be banned from having one at all, they are a waste of space.

Right Wing compassion at it's finest.

Compassion? What is there to be compassionate about? Are they under oppression? Are they under arrest? Are they dying? Are they ill or sick or unwell? Are they being terrorized or forced to comply to payless slavery?

They are moaning, needlessly taking up parliament debate time, encouraging corporations to improve technology for automation and creating unemployment for future generations.

The only people who deserve compassion are current children who may need to work in their places in 15 years and find out that their job is impossible because of older generations who faced self-entitlement on an extreme scale.

[Nadkor]

Wait, so they're asking for equal pay but they're not even doing the same job? Yeah, that's totally sensible. While we're at it, let's pay the person who works in the dog food factory the same as Gordon Ramsay.

The case is about whether they do work of equivalent value, not whether they do the same job.

Precisely.

If Person A is doing Job A and Person B is doing Job B, and these jobs are of equivalent value to their employer, and Person B is getting paid more than Person A then you would wonder why. Perhaps on an individual basis this could be explained by a range of factors, such as qualifications, or experience. Where it's a whole group of people who have historically been undervalued in the workplace (Group A) being paid less for work of equivalent value than another group of people who have historically been more valued in the workplace, across virtually all of the workplace, (Group B), then it's perfectly reasonable for members of Group A to question why they are not being given equivalent pay for work of equivalent value and to argue that the disparity is motivated, consciously or not, by discrimination arguably related to the lesser value historically attributed to Group A's work.

And, frankly, members of Group B who are bitching about how its so unfair that people from Group A would like equivalent pay for equivalent work can basically shut the fuck up.

[Nadkor]

pay should reflect the difficulty of the job, and the warehouse one seems to be more difficult.

I have, in fact, worked both. Neither were in Asda - I worked in the warehouse in a Sainsbury's and on the floor/checkouts in a Tesco.

I am not strong, and I am not a particularly physical person generally, but give me the warehouse any day of the week. The floor is equally as 'back-breaking' as the warehouse, but in the warehouse you don't have to deal with the general fucking public.

Ask anyone who works in retail and they will tell you that the worst part of their job is the public. Any retail worker dealing with the public on a regular basis is a saint if they haven't snapped and killed after half an hour. Asda should be paying these people millions.

[Great Nepal]

Wait, so they're asking for equal pay but they're not even doing the same job? Yeah, that's totally sensible. While we're at it, let's pay the person who works in the dog food factory the same as Gordon Ramsay.

The case is about whether they do work of equivalent value, not whether they do the same job. I can certainly see that someone working in sales, someone working in clerical role, and someone working in a warehouse all have pretty similar value to an organisation, it couldn't do without any of them but they are all pretty low skilled low paid jobs.

Not really, retail jobs (excluding shelving) are less necessary with advent of technology than warehouse ones. It is perfectly possible to reduce retail jobs to one/two customer assistants, night stockers and two security guards and business would function normally if you put in more self service, better signage and more ways to reach reduced assistants. Warehouse on the other hand requires people for most of its tasks.
Ergo, warehouse staff are more valuable than retail ones.

[Pope Joan]

Equal pay should be for the same work.

Warehousing and clerical are not the same work.

If you want to complain about women not having access to the higher paying warehouse jobs, that's fine, go ahead.

But otherwise, this is apples vs. oranges.

[The Nihilistic view]

pay should reflect the difficulty of the job, and the warehouse one seems to be more difficult.

I have, in fact, worked both. Neither were in Asda - I worked in the warehouse in a Sainsbury's and on the floor/checkouts in a Tesco.

I am not strong, and I am not a particularly physical person generally, but give me the warehouse any day of the week. The floor is equally as 'back-breaking' as the warehouse, but in the warehouse you don't have to deal with the general fucking public.

Ask anyone who works in retail and they will tell you that the worst part of their job is the public. Any retail worker dealing with the public on a regular basis is a saint if they haven't snapped and killed after half an hour. Asda should be paying these people millions.

I would say public interaction can be one of the best thing about it.

Before you ask, yes I work in retail, yes some customers are twats (Though I would say not all of my workmates are immune from being twats either) but there are far more regular customers one gets to know who are very decent friendly people who appreciate any help you give them. In my experience there are far more of them than there are twats.

There are two times I have ever got angry, the first time was finding somebody trying to steal about £200-300 worth of goods, the police were very helpful....not. The second was what amounted to 2 customers effectively verbally bullying a young school girl who worked Saturdays so I sent them packing. There are difficult customers but that's just how some people are, difficult, it's nothing personal. I just forget about it and move on.

[Galloism]

The case is about whether they do work of equivalent value, not whether they do the same job. I can certainly see that someone working in sales, someone working in clerical role, and someone working in a warehouse all have pretty similar value to an organisation, it couldn't do without any of them but they are all pretty low skilled low paid jobs.

Not really, retail jobs (excluding shelving) are less necessary with advent of technology than warehouse ones. It is perfectly possible to reduce retail jobs to one/two customer assistants, night stockers and two security guards and business would function normally if you put in more self service, better signage and more ways to reach reduced assistants. Warehouse on the other hand requires people for most of its tasks.
Ergo, warehouse staff are more valuable than retail ones.

Eh... Given that, when I was driving a truck, I once picked up at a warehouse that was almost entirely automated, I'm not sure this is true.

Was really cool, too. I punched my load number into the console, and robots went to get the goods and loaded them in the trailer two pallets abreast.

[Sdaeriji]

Seems like Asda should have an easy time disproving the assertions that the positions are equivalent, if they really aren't equivalent. In my experience in retail warehouses, the floor workers end up doing just as much physical labor as the warehouse workers. It may not be in the job descriptions, but the reality in the store is that there aren't enough warehouse workers to do all their work, so the floor workers usually have to contribute.