British 2015 general election poll

[Hydesland]

No? well good news, Absolute poverty is up too and is expected to keep going up.

(Image)

Of course absolute poverty is up since the start of literally the worst ever recession since 1930, but

a) you made a claim about poverty since 1979
b) your graph is a forecast from 2009, not the actual numbers... :sibirsky:

[Greater vakolicci haven]

And how would the UK be doing if Thatcher hadn't turned it around? What with the previous way (the 3 day work week, bodies not being buried), the economy was about as stagnant as is possible.

[Geilinor]

And how would the UK be doing if Thatcher hadn't turned it around? What with the previous way (the 3 day work week, bodies not being buried), the economy was about as stagnant as is possible.

The economy has grown, but average wages have not grown very much.

[The UK in Exile]

And how would the UK be doing if Thatcher hadn't turned it around? What with the previous way (the 3 day work week, bodies not being buried), the economy was about as stagnant as is possible.

We'd be a glorious social democratic paradise, like sweden.

[British Home Counties]

And how would the UK be doing if Thatcher hadn't turned it around? What with the previous way (the 3 day work week, bodies not being buried), the economy was about as stagnant as is possible.

The economy has grown, but average wages have not grown very much.

Key Points
Employees aged 21 in 1995 earned 40% more after adjusting for inflation by the age of 39 than those aged 21 in 1975 did up to the age of 39

Average hourly earnings peaked at older ages in 2013 compared to 1975

The difference between male and female average pay for the under 30s has decreased dramatically since 1975.

Since 2011 the top 10% of full-time earners have had the largest falls in wages after adjusting for inflation.

Since 1975 average earnings for full-time employees have more than doubled after accounting for inflation.

Since the introduction of the National Minimum Wage, wage growth at the bottom of the earnings distribution has been strong for both full and part-time employees.

Almost a third (32.6%) of those in the top 10% of earners worked in London in 2013 while 12.3% of the bottom 10% of earners worked in the North West

Hourly wage inequality has fallen across the regions and devolved countries of the UK since 1998

Office for National Statistics Key Points http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lmac/uk-w ... cades.html

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/wages

Change the chart to "2000". These are most definitely not equal to or below inflation.

[Geilinor]

And how would the UK be doing if Thatcher hadn't turned it around? What with the previous way (the 3 day work week, bodies not being buried), the economy was about as stagnant as is possible.

We'd be a glorious social democratic paradise, like sweden.

Scandinavia had to make difficult economic reforms in the 1980's and 1990's to do that.

[Lunas Legion]

And how would the UK be doing if Thatcher hadn't turned it around? What with the previous way (the 3 day work week, bodies not being buried), the economy was about as stagnant as is possible.

We'd be a glorious social democratic paradise, like sweden.

Scandanavia isn't as good as it's made out to be.

[Hydesland]

That's an exceptionally terrible way to measure poverty.

That's how the UK measures poverty.

What do you mean the UK? The UK government provides a broad range of statistics. It's notably very difficult to measure poverty accurately and to provide reliable statistics, there's so many factors and even absolute inflation adjusted monetary measures are not adequate, when you take into account changes in quality of goods and services at comparative prices etc...

[British Home Counties]

And how would the UK be doing if Thatcher hadn't turned it around? What with the previous way (the 3 day work week, bodies not being buried), the economy was about as stagnant as is possible.

We'd be a glorious social democratic paradise, like sweden.

yeah that glorious danish nation where there is x1.5 as much debt as there is output

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... nk-warning

[The UK in Exile]

We'd be a glorious social democratic paradise, like sweden.

Scandanavia isn't as good as it's made out to be.

Sounds like a paradise.

That's how the UK measures poverty.

What do you mean the UK? The UK government provides a broad range of statistics. It's notably very difficult to measure poverty accurately and to provide reliable statistics, there's so many factors and even absolute inflation adjusted monetary measures are not adequate, when you take into account changes in quality of goods and services at comparative prices etc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in ... d_measured

There is no one definition of poverty. The most common measure, as used in the Child Poverty Act 2010, is ‘household income below 60 percent of median income’. The median is such an income that exactly a half of households earn more than that and the other half earns less.

We'd be a glorious social democratic paradise, like sweden.

Scandinavia had to make difficult economic reforms in the 1980's and 1990's to do that.

Right, I'm just saying, we had our difficult economic reforms, so wheres my fucking scandanavian paradise?

[British Home Counties]

Right, I'm just saying, we had our difficult economic reforms, so wheres my fucking scandanavian paradise?

Oh please. This is nothing.

If you want a nation that succeeded with their economic reforms go to Singapore, Hong Kong or Monaco.

"Difficult". How cute. Bet you had no food on the table as well right?

[The UK in Exile]

Right, I'm just saying, we had our difficult economic reforms, so wheres my fucking scandanavian paradise?

Oh please. This is nothing.

If you want a nation that succeeded with their economic reforms go to Singapore, Hong Kong or Monaco.

"Difficult". How cute. Bet you had no food on the table as well right?

I'm sure Hong Kong, Singapore and Monaco's success has nothing to do with being small city states practicing regulatory arbitrage against vast neighbours who provide for their security, defence and immigration policy.

[Hydesland]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in ... d_measured

There is no one definition of poverty. The most common measure, as used in the Child Poverty Act 2010, is ‘household income below 60 percent of median income’. The median is such an income that exactly a half of households earn more than that and the other half earns less.

The source wiki uses for that claim seems to agree there is no consensus in the literature on how to accurately measure poverty, or what poverty even means.

"There is no single, universally accepted definition of ‘poverty’. Indeed, in his study of how governments in ten countries set minimum income standards, Professor John Veit -Wilson identified no fewer than seven different ways of conceptualising poverty. The fact that there are so many different ways of thinking about poverty means that debates – even between experts in the field – often generate more heat than light. There is also a political dimension since, as Professor David Piachaud noted, the term ‘poverty’ carries with it ‘…an implication and moral imperative that something should be done about it.’"

Regarding measuring based on a proportion of average income:


The main problem with using a poverty threshold based on a proportion of mean or median income is that any such threshold is essentially arbitrary. There is no inherent reason why any particular proportion should be considered the threshold below which people can be said to be in poverty.

Even worse, it's absolutely possible for the poor to experience a substantial increase in living standards and even real income while at the same time a nation increases the proportion of people below average income, it lacks important informative content about the actual conditions of the poor and how society has changed over time, it's more accurately a proxy measure of inequality than it is of poverty, in my opinion.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Besides, the UK likes to change its definition (levels of income etc) of poverty each year.

[Alyakia]

And how would the UK be doing if Thatcher hadn't turned it around? What with the previous way (the 3 day work week, bodies not being buried), the economy was about as stagnant as is possible.

you wanna talk alternate history hypotheticals?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCrone_report

[Hydesland]

And how would the UK be doing if Thatcher hadn't turned it around? What with the previous way (the 3 day work week, bodies not being buried), the economy was about as stagnant as is possible.

you wanna talk alternate history hypotheticals?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCrone_report

This is an interesting sentence from there:

" though this was balanced somewhat by the opinion that Scotland could risk "disaster" if the oil price collapsed"

Oil prices actually did collapse after the seventies oil crisis, and didn't surge up again until the 2000s, and has now collapsed again.

[British Home Counties]

Oh please. This is nothing.

If you want a nation that succeeded with their economic reforms go to Singapore, Hong Kong or Monaco.

"Difficult". How cute. Bet you had no food on the table as well right?

I'm sure Hong Kong, Singapore and Monaco's success has nothing to do with being small city states practicing regulatory arbitrage against vast neighbours who provide for their security, defence and immigration policy.

Hong Kong is bigger than London, population and size wise, and since London runs the UK, Hong Kong isn't far from the UK. Hong Kong has a GDP bigger than Sweden, by the way.

And if it wasn't for the fact that Singapore is a major military power in South-eastern Asia and is the biggest importer of Leopard A2 tanks on the continent, perhaps your point would make sense?

[The UK in Exile]

I'm sure Hong Kong, Singapore and Monaco's success has nothing to do with being small city states practicing regulatory arbitrage against vast neighbours who provide for their security, defence and immigration policy.

Hong Kong is bigger than London, population and size wise, and since London runs the UK, Hong Kong isn't far from the UK. Hong Kong has a GDP bigger than Sweden, by the way.

And if it wasn't for the fact that Singapore is a major military power in South-eastern Asia and is the biggest importer of Leopard A2 tanks on the continent, perhaps your point would make sense?

Not just the biggest, the only! 1st out of one countries.

Hong Kong is in fact 400 sqkm smaller than London and 1 Million people smaller. But hey, don't let facts get in the way, the one about Leopard tanks was pretty cool.

[Britanno]

https://uk.isidewith.com/results/801533096

Why are the Lib Dems so fucking useless? I want to vote for them, but they're shite nationally and will probably elect Tim Farron as leader after the election, which acts as another deterrent.

[Angleter]

We'd be a glorious social democratic paradise, like sweden.

Scandanavia isn't as good as it's made out to be.

Sounds great to me.

[Dunbia]

How anyone could bring them selves to vote other than Conservative baffles me.
You'd be pushing the UK into default as soon as you tick the labour box.

[Alyakia]

How anyone could bring them selves to vote other than Conservative baffles me.
You'd be pushing the UK into default as soon as you tick the labour box.

how anyone could bring themselves to vote conservatives baffle me
you're basically pushing the UK into non-existence as soon as you tick the tory box

[Alyakia]

How anyone could bring them selves to vote other than Conservative baffles me.
You'd be pushing the UK into default as soon as you tick the labour box.

would you be shocked i said there were parties other than labour and tories

[Geilinor]

We'd be a glorious social democratic paradise, like sweden.

Scandanavia isn't as good as it's made out to be.

While no country or system is perfect, there's a lot of exaggeration and humor in the article.

[Geilinor]

How anyone could bring them selves to vote other than Conservative baffles me.
You'd be pushing the UK into default as soon as you tick the labour box.

how anyone could bring themselves to vote conservatives baffle me
you're basically pushing the UK into non-existence as soon as you tick the tory box

No, that's SNP. The last I recall, they were the ones pushing so hard to leave.