British 2015 general election poll

[Alyakia]

the pro-separation party whose power is the result of the exercising of the will of the scottish people. telling the party that the scottish people voted for they can fuck off is to me functionally the same as telling scotland to fuck off unless it votes for the right kind of party.

Like places voting for the Tories?

Because there really isn't a difference between wanting to keep the SNP or the Tories out.

it's the same difference between revolution and civil war/rebellion. i can't think of a single separatist that actually calls themselves a separatist and the reason for this is that it has a negative connotation.

why do i have a feeling i've just opened myself up for another tedious debate about how words mean things and in particular political words are chosen very carefully with someone that fundamentally knows this is true but in their particular case won't admit it

They want to leave the UK, whether you want to make that negative or positive that is where the root of the problem lies. Not because it was they were Scottish.

the difference is that england didn't just vote to stay in the UK under the promise they will get more participation only to get told to fuck off by proxy when they vote for the english national party for most if not all of the seats in england. indeed, one could conclude they are very different scenarios.

[Pesda]

I'd probably agree if the four constituent nations with their varied political landscapes had different threads. A mod has denied that ever happening though.

I think the SNP and the Scottish elections are a dominating topic and will remain so in this thread, Scottish posters don't and wont get drowned out here, so I don't think Scotland needs a separate thread. England certainly doesn't. You could make a case for Wales if anyone actually cares.

If there was a seperate thread for Wales it would probably be just me talking to myself.

[Arglorand]

They want to leave the UK, whether you want to make that negative or positive that is where the root of the problem lies. Not because it was they were Scottish.

SDLP

SDLP

SDLP

Labour has been having a reciprocal relationship and an informal alliance with the SDLP since god knows when

Guess what the SDLP want

yeah that's right

a United Ireland

for NI to leave the UK

Separation

Yeah

[Arglorand]

I think the SNP and the Scottish elections are a dominating topic and will remain so in this thread, Scottish posters don't and wont get drowned out here, so I don't think Scotland needs a separate thread. England certainly doesn't. You could make a case for Wales if anyone actually cares.

If there was a seperate thread for Wales it would probably be just me talking to myself.

Actually, it would be you fiercely arguing with Ostroeuropa.

Or, since I can't imagine you being fierce in any sort of negative way, vice versa.

[Brits n Tea]

And the UKIP is topping the poll, which is surprising as this forum seems very left-wing - well the majority of members, not really sure yet still new here.

[Marcurix]

They want to leave the UK, whether you want to make that negative or positive that is where the root of the problem lies. Not because it was they were Scottish.

SDLP

SDLP

SDLP

Labour has been having a reciprocal relationship and an informal alliance with the SDLP since god knows when

Guess what the SDLP want

yeah that's right

a United Ireland

for NI to leave the UK

Separation

Yeah

Did i voice support for this?

I don't think i did.

[Arglorand]

SDLP

SDLP

SDLP

Labour has been having a reciprocal relationship and an informal alliance with the SDLP since god knows when

Guess what the SDLP want

yeah that's right

a United Ireland

for NI to leave the UK

Separation

Yeah

Did i voice support for this?

I don't think i did.

I was under the illusion we were discussing Labour's argument, not your personal preference.

In that case I'm sorry.

[Ad Nihilo]

Is it possible that the Tories have done something right, and the economy is now in "better shape" than it was 5 years ago?

Metaphysically possible, in a parallel universe, yes.

Developed economies grow. That is the default. At least for the time being while we still have resources to exploit, and are still a sufficiently well organised society to conduct research and innovate on things.

The comparison is not with 5 years ago. If the economy had not grown at all in years it would have literally been the worst economic performance of any developed economy ever.

But we did come pretty close to that. David Blanchflower, former member of the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee, did the sums: this has been the slowest recovery since the South Sea Bubble in 1720. (link: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 45218.html )

So no, the Tories did not do "something right". They have fucked up about as much as they could have done short of nuking London.

[Marcurix]

Like places voting for the Tories?

Because there really isn't a difference between wanting to keep the SNP or the Tories out.



They want to leave the UK, whether you want to make that negative or positive that is where the root of the problem lies. Not because it was they were Scottish.

the difference is that england didn't just vote to stay in the UK under the promise they will get more participation only to get told to fuck off by proxy when they vote for the english national party for most if not all of the seats in england. indeed, one could conclude they are very different scenarios.

The promise of more powers, which has been kept.

The concern that this party, not the people, who less than a year ago were pushing hard to leave the country isn't exactly unfounded.

Just like people who don't like the Tories aren't telling England to fuck off, parties opposed to the SNP aren't telling Scotland to fuck off.

[The UK in Exile]

the difference is that england didn't just vote to stay in the UK under the promise they will get more participation only to get told to fuck off by proxy when they vote for the english national party for most if not all of the seats in england. indeed, one could conclude they are very different scenarios.

The promise of more powers, which has been kept.

It hasn't actually been kept yet.

[Alyakia]

the difference is that england didn't just vote to stay in the UK under the promise they will get more participation only to get told to fuck off by proxy when they vote for the english national party for most if not all of the seats in england. indeed, one could conclude they are very different scenarios.

The promise of more powers, which has been kept.

The concern that this party, not the people, who less than a year ago were pushing hard to leave the country isn't exactly unfounded.

Just like people who don't like the Tories aren't telling England to fuck off, parties opposed to the SNP aren't telling Scotland to fuck off.

but the tories have never even come a stone's throw of a chance of winning literally all the seats in england so even if we pretend it's the same it's still not the same

[Pesda]

If there was a seperate thread for Wales it would probably be just me talking to myself.

Actually, it would be you fiercely arguing with Ostroeuropa.

Since Ostroeuropa mentioned something about voting Plaid, I doubt we'd be arguing that much!

Or, since I can't imagine you being fierce in any sort of negative way, vice versa.

And I'll take that as a compliment

[Arglorand]

Actually, it would be you fiercely arguing with Ostroeuropa.

Since Ostroeuropa mentioned something about voting Plaid, I doubt we'd be arguing that much!

Or, since I can't imagine you being fierce in any sort of negative way, vice versa.

And I'll take that as a compliment

It was to my understanding he was voting Plaid as an attempt to pressure Labour leftward?

And that was the intention.

[Arglorand]

The promise of more powers, which has been kept.

It hasn't actually been kept yet.

And if Davie gets his way, won't.

[Pesda]

Since Ostroeuropa mentioned something about voting Plaid, I doubt we'd be arguing that much!
And I'll take that as a compliment

It was to my understanding he was voting Plaid as an attempt to pressure Labour leftward?

And that was the intention.

Vote Plaid because X vs Vote Plaid because Y... sounds like a fun debate.

[Vasileus]

Okay, question: What part of the UK doesn't have some type of separatist movement?

[Arglorand]

Okay, question: What part of the UK doesn't have some type of separatist movement?

The answer to your question is no.

[Miletos]

Okay, question: What part of the UK doesn't have some type of separatist movement?

Most of England. Cornwall has a very small independence movement, and Yorkshire has the autonomy/devolution-seeking Yorkshire First, but that's basically it within England.

[Arglorand]

Okay, question: What part of the UK doesn't have some type of separatist movement?

Most of England. Cornwall has a very small independence movement, and Yorkshire has the autonomy/devolution-seeking Yorkshire First, but that's basically it within England.

England itself has a separatist movement.

It's not even remotely as large as SNP, Plaid, or *shudders and looks across the irish sea*, but yeah.

[Alyakia]

Okay, question: What part of the UK doesn't have some type of separatist movement?

...

blackpool?

[Greater-London]

Okay, question: What part of the UK doesn't have some type of separatist movement?

Well aside from the SNP & SF there are no large scale separatist movements in the UK. Playd are smaller than Labour and the Torries in Wales, English Democrats aren't worthy of note - same goes for all the English regionalist parties like Yorkshire First and Mebyon Kernow.

[Miletos]

Most of England. Cornwall has a very small independence movement, and Yorkshire has the autonomy/devolution-seeking Yorkshire First, but that's basically it within England.

England itself has a separatist movement.

It's not even remotely as large as SNP, Plaid, or *shudders and looks across the irish sea*, but yeah.

I suppose the English Democrats do exist, but I always (wrongly) had them down as just EVEL/devolution people. You're correct about them being actual independence-seeking nationalists now, though, I'll concede.

(Although they are utterly, utterly insignificant.)

[Pesda]

Okay, question: What part of the UK doesn't have some type of separatist movement?

Well aside from the SNP & SF there are no large scale separatist movements in the UK. Playd are smaller than Labour and the Torries in Wales, English Democrats aren't worthy of note - same goes for all the English regionalist parties like Yorkshire First and Mebyon Kernow.

Playd lol.

[Arglorand]

England itself has a separatist movement.

It's not even remotely as large as SNP, Plaid, or *shudders and looks across the irish sea*, but yeah.

I suppose the English Democrats do exist, but I always (wrongly) had them down as just EVEL/devolution people. You're correct about them being actual independence-seeking nationalists now, though, I'll concede.

(Although they are utterly, utterly insignificant.)

They flipflop. TBH, I'm not sure what they're consistent on, except annexing land from Wales.

[Greater-London]

Playd lol.

Lol my bad. I imagined it being a Welsh word it would be harder to spell than it sounds.