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The GOP will win the Senate and Keep the House

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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How would you prefer the 114th congress be set up? How will it be?

GOP House/GOP Senate
107
32%
GOP House/ Dem Senate (current)
25
8%
Dem House/ Dem Senate
148
45%
Dem House/ GOP Senate
8
2%
Other?
42
13%
 
Total votes : 330

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Dragomerian Islands
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Founded: Aug 26, 2013
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Postby Dragomerian Islands » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:41 pm

Arlenton wrote:
Dragomerian Islands wrote:That part is unreliable. I actually checked the site out and the statistics can get very irregular and skewed. Also, the event of a Republican takeover in the current political climate would be impossible and would require nothing greater than an act of God and the Apocalypse.

What political climate is preventing the GOP from winning senate seats in Montana, South Dakota, Arkansas, and West Virginia?

1. The GOP hates minorities and minorities are becoming a larger percent of the population.
2. Unless there is no Democratic candidate, the chances of the republicans winning there is maybe 30% and 5% for them to win all 4 of those mentioned by you.
3. Their policies do not stick well with non-rich, non-big business types of people.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:48 pm

Olerand wrote:
Love, we were either in the middle of a revolution, ruled by an emperor, or a king for fifty of those sixty years.

Your power struggles and lack of mass politics are a step up from what we were in. :p

Yeah, but at least the Revolution was beautiful in a horrible, bloody sort of way. Liberté, égalité, fraternité, non? :)
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Olerand
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Founded: Sep 18, 2014
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Postby Olerand » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:49 pm

Lalaki wrote:
Olerand wrote:I don't blame them.
I'm considering abstention too, and our political choices are much more numerous and vibrant than those offered to an average American voter.


I respect that, as I do with all decisions to participate or not to participate in politics.

However, do note that the people you disagree with (or ever the greater of two evils so to speak) have a greater chance of winning due to a lack of participation. I know, you may disagree and lack faith in all of the above. But imagine if Democrats took both houses in the United States (as may very well happen in the next decade, but certainly not in 2014-16). Imagine if Republicans took the Senate next election. That would make a difference, big or small.

I am aware of the consequences of electoral neglect. But voting legitimizes the current political parties, and makes them think they are something that they are not, namely supported and liked. It supports the status quo, and change is not going to be delivered in return for our participation.
To me, it is supporting short-term change over truer, long-term change.
Short of voting for the nationalists, which has recently become an available option for me with the upcoming free trade agreement between the EU and US, there seem to be no alternatives to abstention.
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Arlenton
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Postby Arlenton » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:52 pm

Dragomerian Islands wrote:
Arlenton wrote:What political climate is preventing the GOP from winning senate seats in Montana, South Dakota, Arkansas, and West Virginia?

1. The GOP hates minorities and minorities are becoming a larger percent of the population.
2. Unless there is no Democratic candidate, the chances of the republicans winning there is maybe 30% and 5% for them to win all 4 of those mentioned by you.
3. Their policies do not stick well with non-rich, non-big business types of people.

You do realize that those places are trending Republican right? And that they were already heavily Republican to begin with? Only a 5%-30% chance of a GOP victory in south dakota for Gods sake? No offense but can I have what you are you smoking?

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Olerand
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Postby Olerand » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:53 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Olerand wrote:
Love, we were either in the middle of a revolution, ruled by an emperor, or a king for fifty of those sixty years.

Your power struggles and lack of mass politics are a step up from what we were in. :p

Yeah, but at least the Revolution was beautiful in a horrible, bloody sort of way. Liberté, égalité, fraternité, non? :)

It certainly was. I actually like that era, I have an odd fascination with and love for turbulence and the feeling of radical change in society.

It was also a defining time for world history, the rise of the modern nation-state, the spread of republican and egalitarian ideology throughout Europe etc.
It was pretty great.

And you know bad because of all the people that died. That was bad too. :p
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Soldati Senza Confini
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Founded: Mar 11, 2013
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:53 pm

Arlenton wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:I'm voting this midterm for the people who are the best choices for the government and if what they support aligns with my interests.

People all too often forget that it is not about the party, but about the goals and whether those goals are in our own self-interest or the interest of the nation to follow through.

In whether the GOP will win the Senate and Keep the House? I don't think so.

They will keep the house, no doubt about that and the worst case scenario for the GOP in the Senate is a net gain of 0 seats.


I'm not sure people want a gridlock congress anymore, but you're right, there is a chance it might happen that way and nothing gets solved.
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Lalaki
Senator
 
Posts: 3676
Founded: May 11, 2014
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Postby Lalaki » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:54 pm

Olerand wrote:
Lalaki wrote:
I respect that, as I do with all decisions to participate or not to participate in politics.

However, do note that the people you disagree with (or ever the greater of two evils so to speak) have a greater chance of winning due to a lack of participation. I know, you may disagree and lack faith in all of the above. But imagine if Democrats took both houses in the United States (as may very well happen in the next decade, but certainly not in 2014-16). Imagine if Republicans took the Senate next election. That would make a difference, big or small.

I am aware of the consequences of electoral neglect. But voting legitimizes the current political parties, and makes them think they are something that they are not, namely supported and liked. It supports the status quo, and change is not going to be delivered in return for our participation.
To me, it is supporting short-term change over truer, long-term change.
Short of voting for the nationalists, which has recently become an available option for me with the upcoming free trade agreement between the EU and US, there seem to be no alternatives to abstention.


Usually I would agree with long-term change over short-term. But the nature of politics is short-term. It's about helping the greatest amount of people at any given moment.

Let's say Party A wants to end universal health care and Party B wants to increase funding. While they may both be unpopular and disliked, voting for Party B protects the medical care of citizens in need.

The words of Keynes really fit well here. "In the long run, we will all be dead."
Born again free market capitalist.

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Arlenton
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Posts: 10238
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:57 pm

Dragomerian Islands wrote:
Arlenton wrote:What political climate is preventing the GOP from winning senate seats in Montana, South Dakota, Arkansas, and West Virginia?

1. The GOP hates minorities and minorities are becoming a larger percent of the population.
2. Unless there is no Democratic candidate, the chances of the republicans winning there is maybe 30% and 5% for them to win all 4 of those mentioned by you.
3. Their policies do not stick well with non-rich, non-big business types of people.

>5% GOP victory in solid red states trending more red
>5%
>5%
>5%
btw where are you getting your information? I need to see this lmao

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Dragomerian Islands
Minister
 
Posts: 2745
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Dragomerian Islands » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:58 pm

Arlenton wrote:
Dragomerian Islands wrote:1. The GOP hates minorities and minorities are becoming a larger percent of the population.
2. Unless there is no Democratic candidate, the chances of the republicans winning there is maybe 30% and 5% for them to win all 4 of those mentioned by you.
3. Their policies do not stick well with non-rich, non-big business types of people.

You do realize that those places are trending Republican right? And that they were already heavily Republican to begin with? Only a 5%-30% chance of a GOP victory in south dakota for Gods sake? No offense but can I have what you are you smoking?

You are putting your faith in a poll that has shown in the past to be very inaccurate. The results are sporadic at best. There is logically, statistically, or otherwise that a state(s) that has/have curtain values to vote for a party that is so vehemently against those values.
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Arlenton
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Postby Arlenton » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:59 pm

Soldati senza confini wrote:
Arlenton wrote:They will keep the house, no doubt about that and the worst case scenario for the GOP in the Senate is a net gain of 0 seats.


I'm not sure people want a gridlock congress anymore, but you're right, there is a chance it might happen that way and nothing gets solved.

Nobody wants a gridlock,we all want progress, though we all want our own sides version of progress. Which kinda creates gridlock.

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Lalaki
Senator
 
Posts: 3676
Founded: May 11, 2014
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Postby Lalaki » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:03 pm

Arlenton wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
I'm not sure people want a gridlock congress anymore, but you're right, there is a chance it might happen that way and nothing gets solved.

Nobody wants a gridlock,we all want progress, though we all want our own sides version of progress. Which kinda creates gridlock.


It perplexes me.

Why don't Democrats sit down and negotiate economic policy with Republicans?

Why don't Republicans sit down, and instead of leading countless attempts to repeal the PPACA, works with Democrats to make it better?

It's all about cooperation, not competition. Politics isn't the economy.
Born again free market capitalist.

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Dragomerian Islands
Minister
 
Posts: 2745
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Dragomerian Islands » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:03 pm

Arlenton wrote:
Dragomerian Islands wrote:1. The GOP hates minorities and minorities are becoming a larger percent of the population.
2. Unless there is no Democratic candidate, the chances of the republicans winning there is maybe 30% and 5% for them to win all 4 of those mentioned by you.
3. Their policies do not stick well with non-rich, non-big business types of people.

>5% GOP victory in solid red states trending more red
>5%
>5%
>5%
btw where are you getting your information? I need to see this lmao

Solid Red? Those states were in the blue.
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Conserative Morality
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Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:06 pm

Olerand wrote:
It certainly was. I actually like that era, I have an odd fascination with and love for turbulence and the feeling of radical change in society.

It was also a defining time for world history, the rise of the modern nation-state, the spread of republican and egalitarian ideology throughout Europe etc.
It was pretty great.

And you know bad because of all the people that died. That was bad too. :p

Don't worry, I'm a dirty revolutionary as well. ;)
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Olerand
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Posts: 13169
Founded: Sep 18, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Olerand » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:08 pm

Lalaki wrote:
Olerand wrote:I am aware of the consequences of electoral neglect. But voting legitimizes the current political parties, and makes them think they are something that they are not, namely supported and liked. It supports the status quo, and change is not going to be delivered in return for our participation.
To me, it is supporting short-term change over truer, long-term change.
Short of voting for the nationalists, which has recently become an available option for me with the upcoming free trade agreement between the EU and US, there seem to be no alternatives to abstention.


Usually I would agree with long-term change over short-term. But the nature of politics is short-term. It's about helping the greatest amount of people at any given moment.

Let's say Party A wants to end universal health care and Party B wants to increase funding. While they may both be unpopular and disliked, voting for Party B protects the medical care of citizens in need.

The words of Keynes really fit well here. "In the long run, we will all be dead."

America's massive size and its electoral history make electoral abstention less damaging than in France.
The turnout rate for presidential elections in America is around 60%, and that would be considered great.
It is around 80% here in France.

Abstention frightens our politicians and makes our displeasure abundantly clear. They were all feigning shock when only 45% of the electorate turned out for the EU parliament elections.
If we can reduce the turnout rate for normal elections, and reach American level turnout rates, our politicians wouldn't dare to do shit because they know they have no legitimacy.

And we are rarely left with a void in France. We always have that one party that is an alternative to abstention. And right now, it happens to be the nationalists.
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Arlenton
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Posts: 10238
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:09 pm

Dragomerian Islands wrote:
Arlenton wrote:You do realize that those places are trending Republican right? And that they were already heavily Republican to begin with? Only a 5%-30% chance of a GOP victory in south dakota for Gods sake? No offense but can I have what you are you smoking?

You are putting your faith in a poll that has shown in the past to be very inaccurate. The results are sporadic at best. There is logically, statistically, or otherwise that a state(s) that has/have curtain values to vote for a party that is so vehemently against those values.

Alright, take Arkansas results by year in presidential elections, 2000 51%-45% GOP win, 2004 54%-44% GOP win, 2008 58%-38% GOP win , 2012 60%-36% GOP win. The state is obviously shifting right more and more. You said that there is at most a 30% chance for a GOP win there. Where do you get this info from???? Why is this sight so wrong?

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Wisconsin9
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Posts: 35753
Founded: May 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Wisconsin9 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:09 pm

Olerand wrote:
Lalaki wrote:
Usually I would agree with long-term change over short-term. But the nature of politics is short-term. It's about helping the greatest amount of people at any given moment.

Let's say Party A wants to end universal health care and Party B wants to increase funding. While they may both be unpopular and disliked, voting for Party B protects the medical care of citizens in need.

The words of Keynes really fit well here. "In the long run, we will all be dead."

America's massive size and its electoral history make electoral abstention less damaging than in France.
The turnout rate for presidential elections in America is around 60%, and that would be considered great.
It is around 80% here in France.

Abstention frightens our politicians and makes our displeasure abundantly clear. They were all feigning shock when only 45% of the electorate turned out for the EU parliament elections.
If we can reduce the turnout rate for normal elections, and reach American level turnout rates, our politicians wouldn't dare to do shit because they know they have no legitimacy.

And we are rarely left with a void in France. We always have that one party that is an alternative to abstention. And right now, it happens to be the nationalists.

Man, I wish our politicians had the same ideas on voter turnout as yours did.
~~~~~~~~
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Mesrane
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Posts: 9339
Founded: Apr 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Mesrane » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:11 pm

Lalaki wrote:
Arlenton wrote:Nobody wants a gridlock,we all want progress, though we all want our own sides version of progress. Which kinda creates gridlock.


It perplexes me.

Why don't Democrats sit down and negotiate economic policy with Republicans?

Why don't Republicans sit down, and instead of leading countless attempts to repeal the PPACA, works with Democrats to make it better?

It's all about cooperation, not competition. Politics isn't the economy.


This. The endless gridlock is making Canada more attractive every year.
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Dragomerian Islands
Minister
 
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Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Dragomerian Islands » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:12 pm

Arlenton wrote:
Dragomerian Islands wrote:You are putting your faith in a poll that has shown in the past to be very inaccurate. The results are sporadic at best. There is logically, statistically, or otherwise that a state(s) that has/have curtain values to vote for a party that is so vehemently against those values.

Alright, take Arkansas results by year in presidential elections, 2000 51%-45% GOP win, 2004 54%-44% GOP win, 2008 58%-38% GOP win , 2012 60%-36% GOP win. The state is obviously shifting right more and more. You said that there is at most a 30% chance for a GOP win there. Where do you get this info from???? Why is this sight so wrong?

Well, as for your sight, I am not an eye-doctor, so you may want to get your eyes checked at a certified one.

As for Arkansas, it is in Blue and judging by the policies of the population that lives there vs. the policies of the Republicans, well, they do not match. For Arkansas, 25% win for republicans, and that is being generous.
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Tecomaia
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Posts: 59
Founded: Sep 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Tecomaia » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:13 pm

Republican's can go fuck themselves. Democrat's all the way!

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Arlenton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10238
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:14 pm

Dragomerian Islands wrote:
Arlenton wrote:>5% GOP victory in solid red states trending more red
>5%
>5%
>5%
btw where are you getting your information? I need to see this lmao

Solid Red? Those states were in the blue.

You can have Democrats in solide red states, and vice versa, for democrats they could be elected in a presidential election year when democratic voter turnout is much higher, they also tend to be much more moderate than other democrats, and some were from the Obama/anti-bush waves or from back in the 80s and 90s when those states were much more Democratic/

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Wisconsin9
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35753
Founded: May 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Wisconsin9 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:14 pm

Mesrane wrote:
Lalaki wrote:
It perplexes me.

Why don't Democrats sit down and negotiate economic policy with Republicans?

Why don't Republicans sit down, and instead of leading countless attempts to repeal the PPACA, works with Democrats to make it better?

It's all about cooperation, not competition. Politics isn't the economy.


This. The endless gridlock is making Canada more attractive every year.

Dunno, this past year it's seemed like we're actually one of the least fucked-up countries in the Anglosphere. If there's one good thing about living in a system where either party can block everything with barely any effort, it's that it'll always be immensely difficult for things to get completely and totally fucked.
~~~~~~~~
We are currently 33% through the Trump administration.
................................................................................................................................................................................................................
................................................................................................................................................................................................................

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Olerand
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Posts: 13169
Founded: Sep 18, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Olerand » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:15 pm

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Olerand wrote:America's massive size and its electoral history make electoral abstention less damaging than in France.
The turnout rate for presidential elections in America is around 60%, and that would be considered great.
It is around 80% here in France.

Abstention frightens our politicians and makes our displeasure abundantly clear. They were all feigning shock when only 45% of the electorate turned out for the EU parliament elections.
If we can reduce the turnout rate for normal elections, and reach American level turnout rates, our politicians wouldn't dare to do shit because they know they have no legitimacy.

And we are rarely left with a void in France. We always have that one party that is an alternative to abstention. And right now, it happens to be the nationalists.

Man, I wish our politicians had the same ideas on voter turnout as yours did.

Our politicians care about remaining in office, as all others do. They feign their interest in democratic participation and whatever, but that's bullshit.
What really keeps our politicians in check, and would do so even more if they are "illegitimate", is our willingness to protest, massively, and for a lot of things.
We've got a lot of neo-liberal crap pulled back after mobilizing a million or so citizens to protest in Paris.

If you want your politicians to care, scare them. We learned that the hard way.
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Arlenton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10238
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:15 pm

Dragomerian Islands wrote:
Arlenton wrote:Alright, take Arkansas results by year in presidential elections, 2000 51%-45% GOP win, 2004 54%-44% GOP win, 2008 58%-38% GOP win , 2012 60%-36% GOP win. The state is obviously shifting right more and more. You said that there is at most a 30% chance for a GOP win there. Where do you get this info from???? Why is this sight so wrong?

Well, as for your sight, I am not an eye-doctor, so you may want to get your eyes checked at a certified one.

As for Arkansas, it is in Blue and judging by the policies of the population that lives there vs. the policies of the Republicans, well, they do not match. For Arkansas, 25% win for republicans, and that is being generous.

Ok, what do you mean it is "in the blue?"

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Mesrane
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9339
Founded: Apr 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Mesrane » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:15 pm

Tecomaia wrote:Republican's can go fuck themselves. Democrat's all the way!

I wouldn't get your hopes up.
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Exxosia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 603
Founded: May 09, 2008
Anarchy

Postby Exxosia » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:17 pm

The republocrats will win, the world will lose. This is the way things are.

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