NATION

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Gamergate, Feminisim, and Journalistic Ethics

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Seangoli
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5920
Founded: Sep 24, 2006
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Seangoli » Fri May 01, 2015 1:58 pm

Susurruses wrote:"The lack of services for male rape victims."
I'm.. not sure the services are that much better for others.
I mean, what's the best they can offer? Access to a therapist?
Shit doesn't always help everyone. It should be there, but.. *shrugs*
Services for mental health in general need to be improved.

"The police lack of response to male rape victims."
The police lack of response to a lot of things. The police are bloody useless in many cases.
(There are horror stories from victims of all genders, of police being unprofessional or otherwise terrible at their damn jobs.)
Agreed that there should be some system-wide enforcement of proper protocol regardless of gender or other factors.


I think Galloism's point is that pretty much everywhere, female-on-male rape is considered a legal impossibility. Most places have laws which specifically require a perpetrator to penetrate a victim in order for it to be considered rape. A woman forcing a man to have sex with her against his will is not considered to be an "actual" rape in most jurisdiction by the specific wording of the law. This also prohibits, as well, female-on-female forced sexual intercourse on top of that from being prosecuted as rape as well. It is a legal bias that pretty much nobody is attempting to fix in the least; in fact most recent changes to the laws have only further solidified the concept that women cannot legally rape men (Or other women).

As bad as it can be for female victims, it is significantly worse for male victims both legally and socially. Society as a whole simply cannot accept that such an event can happen in the first. People simply won't believe you due to the simple virtue that the concept of a women forcing a man to have sex with her is even possible, and even if it is it is assumed to be a good thing by a good many. If that weren't bad enough, even if a victim were to muster up the courage to go to the police, they may well find that there is very little the police can actual do even if they wanted to (Which they may not, given that the perception that a women cannot rape a man is pervasive in our society, and someone investigating such an event may show little interest in investigating the event or prosecuting). And even if they fully believe, and have full interest in pursuing an investigation, the law simply doesn't allow a woman to be prosecuted for rape in most jurisdiction.

So yeah. That's kind of a big problem for the countless victims that do exist out there.

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Destiny Island
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Posts: 2317
Founded: Feb 02, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Destiny Island » Fri May 01, 2015 2:08 pm

Susurruses wrote:In fact there was a huge fucking uproar over Lena Dunham being a disgusting piece of shit.

Unfortunately there were also those who went right back around and defended her. I'm not saying everyone did it, I'm pretty sure that everyone here can agree that she is a pretty freaking horrible, but those people out there do exist.
Link.
Last edited by Destiny Island on Fri May 01, 2015 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The game.
Kirby Delauter.

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Hirota
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Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Hirota » Fri May 01, 2015 2:46 pm

Chessmistress wrote:A book full of lies, wrote by the queen of anti-feminism,
No CM, the fact is that you are more harmful to feminism than anything CHS has ever done. You've been called a troll, you've lied multiple times (and been called out on them), poe's law has been cited multiple times surrounding you and your conduct, people have expressed the belief you are supposed to be a parody account in response to Ostro's rather strong beliefs. I'd argue you are far closer to anti-feminist royalty for the negative impact you have brought.
That's why people comparing Radical Feminism with MRA or nazism it's offensive for me.
The facts RadFem loons are apparently inclined to burn books is indicative of Nazism - sorry, but Nazis did it, and now RadFems apparently do it. That will inevitably draw comparissons.
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Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

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Chessmistress
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Founded: Mar 16, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Chessmistress » Fri May 01, 2015 2:57 pm

Hirota wrote:No CM, the fact is that you are more harmful to feminism than anything CHS has ever done. You've been called a troll, you've lied multiple times (and been called out on them), poe's law has been cited multiple times surrounding you and your conduct, people have expressed the belief you are supposed to be a parody account in response to Ostro's rather strong beliefs. I'd argue you are far closer to anti-feminist royalty for the negative impact you have brought.


Hoff Sommers invented lies about supposed "oppression" of males, and that's not just only ludicrous but extremely harmful for women's rights.
Personally I'm glad there are negative opinions about me from misogynists and supporters of rape culture (through support of pornography) and exploitation of women (through prostitution): that means I'm doing right, that means I'm a true feminist.
OOC:
Radical Feminist, caring about the oppressed gender, that's why I have a strong sense of justice.

PRO:
Radical Feminism (proudly SWERF - moderately TERF),
Gender abolitionism,
birth control and population control,
affirmative ongoing VERBAL consent,
death penalty for rapists.

AGAINST:
patriarchy,
pornography,
heteronormativity,
domestic violence and femicide.


Favorite Quotes: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=ches ... /id=403173

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72260
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Fri May 01, 2015 3:14 pm

Chessmistress wrote:
Hirota wrote:No CM, the fact is that you are more harmful to feminism than anything CHS has ever done. You've been called a troll, you've lied multiple times (and been called out on them), poe's law has been cited multiple times surrounding you and your conduct, people have expressed the belief you are supposed to be a parody account in response to Ostro's rather strong beliefs. I'd argue you are far closer to anti-feminist royalty for the negative impact you have brought.


Hoff Sommers invented lies about supposed "oppression" of males, and that's not just only ludicrous but extremely harmful for women's rights.
Personally I'm glad there are negative opinions about me from misogynists and supporters of rape culture (through support of pornography) and exploitation of women (through prostitution): that means I'm doing right, that means I'm a true feminist.

That torture stake looks heavy.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Chessmistress
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Founded: Mar 16, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Chessmistress » Fri May 01, 2015 3:19 pm

Galloism wrote:
Chessmistress wrote:
Hoff Sommers invented lies about supposed "oppression" of males, and that's not just only ludicrous but extremely harmful for women's rights.
Personally I'm glad there are negative opinions about me from misogynists and supporters of rape culture (through support of pornography) and exploitation of women (through prostitution): that means I'm doing right, that means I'm a true feminist.

That torture stake looks heavy.


I cannot get the meaning of that, really, sorry.
OOC:
Radical Feminist, caring about the oppressed gender, that's why I have a strong sense of justice.

PRO:
Radical Feminism (proudly SWERF - moderately TERF),
Gender abolitionism,
birth control and population control,
affirmative ongoing VERBAL consent,
death penalty for rapists.

AGAINST:
patriarchy,
pornography,
heteronormativity,
domestic violence and femicide.


Favorite Quotes: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=ches ... /id=403173

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72260
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Fri May 01, 2015 3:20 pm

Chessmistress wrote:
Galloism wrote:That torture stake looks heavy.


I cannot get the meaning of that, really, sorry.

People who are less schooled in theology might say "that cross looks heavy. "
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Chessmistress
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Founded: Mar 16, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Chessmistress » Fri May 01, 2015 3:25 pm

Galloism wrote:
Chessmistress wrote:
I cannot get the meaning of that, really, sorry.

People who are less schooled in theology might say "that cross looks heavy. "


Thank you for your interest about my burden :roll:
But it's not a real problem for me: I'm already used to be harshly criticised by misogynists and pornography supporters. :roll:
Last edited by Chessmistress on Fri May 01, 2015 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
OOC:
Radical Feminist, caring about the oppressed gender, that's why I have a strong sense of justice.

PRO:
Radical Feminism (proudly SWERF - moderately TERF),
Gender abolitionism,
birth control and population control,
affirmative ongoing VERBAL consent,
death penalty for rapists.

AGAINST:
patriarchy,
pornography,
heteronormativity,
domestic violence and femicide.


Favorite Quotes: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=ches ... /id=403173

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72260
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Fri May 01, 2015 3:31 pm

Chessmistress wrote:
Galloism wrote:People who are less schooled in theology might say "that cross looks heavy. "


Thank you for your interest about my burden :roll:
But it's not a real problem for me: I'm already used to be harshly criticised by misogynists and pornography supporters. :roll:

And logical people.

And liberal feminists.

And egalitarians.

And people who didn't like the movie Frozen.

And people whose names start with the letter P.....
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Cyrisnia
Senator
 
Posts: 3982
Founded: Jun 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Cyrisnia » Fri May 01, 2015 3:39 pm

Galloism wrote:
Chessmistress wrote:
Thank you for your interest about my burden :roll:
But it's not a real problem for me: I'm already used to be harshly criticised by misogynists and pornography supporters. :roll:

And logical people.

And liberal feminists.

And egalitarians.

And people who didn't like the movie Frozen.

And people whose names start with the letter P.....

Peter Pan's Pansexual Pornography Party.
R E D L E G S


【BORN TO ABOLISH】
SOUTH IS A F**K
鬼神 Kill Em All 1859
I am free man
410,757,864,530 DEAD REBS

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Chessmistress
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Posts: 5161
Founded: Mar 16, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Chessmistress » Fri May 01, 2015 4:09 pm

Galloism wrote:
Chessmistress wrote:
Thank you for your interest about my burden :roll:
But it's not a real problem for me: I'm already used to be harshly criticised by misogynists and pornography supporters. :roll:

And logical people.

And liberal feminists.

And egalitarians.

And people who didn't like the movie Frozen.

And people whose names start with the letter P.....


As far as I know liberal "feminists" are pornography supporters, some are even supporters of exploitation of women thorugh prostitution, you know?
I don't think there's such thing as "egalitarian": feminism is equality.

However it's not just only here, and not just only in public: in the last days with my true feminist thoughts I even upsetted a woman in real world - her name start with F, not with P... :p she even compared me to a terrorist :eyebrow: but I already forgive her and she have already forgive me :hug: conservative girlfriends are not just only a peculiarity of misogynists, even women like me can have such partners, you know? Life can be complex, sometimes....
In other words: if I'm ready to quarrel with my partner in order to defend my thoughts, who can really think I'll give a **** about criticism from other people?
OOC:
Radical Feminist, caring about the oppressed gender, that's why I have a strong sense of justice.

PRO:
Radical Feminism (proudly SWERF - moderately TERF),
Gender abolitionism,
birth control and population control,
affirmative ongoing VERBAL consent,
death penalty for rapists.

AGAINST:
patriarchy,
pornography,
heteronormativity,
domestic violence and femicide.


Favorite Quotes: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=ches ... /id=403173

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Russels Orbiting Teapot
Senator
 
Posts: 4024
Founded: Jan 20, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Fri May 01, 2015 4:18 pm

Chessmistress wrote:As far as I know liberal "feminists" are pornography supporters, some are even supporters of exploitation of women thorugh prostitution, you know?
I don't think there's such thing as "egalitarian": feminism is equality.


And War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength.

Clearly the only real feminists are those who align themselves with the right wing.

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Kelinfort
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16394
Founded: Nov 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Fri May 01, 2015 4:49 pm

Chessmistress wrote:
Hirota wrote:No CM, the fact is that you are more harmful to feminism than anything CHS has ever done. You've been called a troll, you've lied multiple times (and been called out on them), poe's law has been cited multiple times surrounding you and your conduct, people have expressed the belief you are supposed to be a parody account in response to Ostro's rather strong beliefs. I'd argue you are far closer to anti-feminist royalty for the negative impact you have brought.


Hoff Sommers invented lies about supposed "oppression" of males, and that's not just only ludicrous but extremely harmful for women's rights.
Personally I'm glad there are negative opinions about me from misogynists and supporters of rape culture (through support of pornography) and exploitation of women (through prostitution): that means I'm doing right, that means I'm a true feminist.

A radical sex negative TERF/SWERF feminist...if you're a true feminist, Ostro's right about the hate cult thing.

1. How is porn exploitation if the actress is well paid and enjoys her work?
2. How is prostitution bad when sex workers control their career, earn a good living, and enjoy their work?

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Geilinor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41328
Founded: Feb 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Geilinor » Fri May 01, 2015 4:57 pm

Chessmistress wrote:
Galloism wrote:And logical people.

And liberal feminists.

And egalitarians.

And people who didn't like the movie Frozen.

And people whose names start with the letter P.....


As far as I know liberal "feminists" are pornography supporters, some are even supporters of exploitation of women thorugh prostitution, you know?
I don't think there's such thing as "egalitarian": feminism is equality.

However it's not just only here, and not just only in public: in the last days with my true feminist thoughts I even upsetted a woman in real world - her name start with F, not with P... :p she even compared me to a terrorist :eyebrow: but I already forgive her and she have already forgive me :hug: conservative girlfriends are not just only a peculiarity of misogynists, even women like me can have such partners, you know? Life can be complex, sometimes....
In other words: if I'm ready to quarrel with my partner in order to defend my thoughts, who can really think I'll give a **** about criticism from other people?

There's no such thing as a "true feminist".
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
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Hirota
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7326
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Hirota » Fri May 01, 2015 5:09 pm

Galloism wrote:
Chessmistress wrote:
Thank you for your interest about my burden :roll:
But it's not a real problem for me: I'm already used to be harshly criticised by misogynists and pornography supporters. :roll:

And logical people.

And liberal feminists.

And egalitarians.

And people who didn't like the movie Frozen.

And people whose names start with the letter P.....
You know it, I know it, everyone else here knows it. CM doesn't. The delusional SJW at work.

Personally I'm glad there are negative opinions about me from misogynists and supporters of rape culture (through support of pornography) and exploitation of women (through prostitution): that means I'm doing right, that means I'm a true feminist.
"Waaaargh! Someone doesn't blindly agree with my ranting! MYSOGNYYYY!!!!"

Yes, you be a good little SJW and follow the script and cry like a baby whenever someone disagrees with you. Because that is bound to work in your favour.
Last edited by Hirota on Fri May 01, 2015 5:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger - Confucius
Known to trigger Grammar Nazis, Spelling Nazis, Actual Nazis, the emotionally stunted and pedants.
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Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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Russels Orbiting Teapot
Senator
 
Posts: 4024
Founded: Jan 20, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Fri May 01, 2015 6:18 pm

So Extra Credits posted an interesting video with a proposal for how to deal with online gaming harassment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt9GwmO ... 00461BB187

I think it raises valid points.
Last edited by Russels Orbiting Teapot on Fri May 01, 2015 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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New Edom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
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Founded: Mar 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby New Edom » Fri May 01, 2015 7:21 pm

Susurruses wrote:
New Edom wrote:
It's not that they want it to be a huge problem even--it's that nearly all things that have female agency are dismissed, handwaved or minimized by feminists that men or women who care about men raise concern about. The response is basically "Oh, that only happens 1-8% of the time, so who cares?" Even if the low percentage is true, is that how we form a basis of ethics or law? That if something rarely happens we don't even TALK about it?

And again, I emphasize: feminists refuse to really talk about female abusers of children, the elderly and other women. They will admittedly sometimes say "this particular case is bad" but they refuse to include women in any concern about these things. Again, the percentages. The insistence that women almost never do anything really bad to anyone.


Mm. Not sure how reflective it is of the wider community.. but I'll speak from the perspective of feminists & "social justice warriors" I know:
They absolutely talk about women that engage in abuse.
In fact there was a huge fucking uproar over Lena Dunham being a disgusting piece of shit.
(On top of that, I know quite a few people with abusive mothers. Some where the fathers are also abusive, some where thankfully they have one parent that isn't an asshole.
Trust me when I say these people recognise the fact that women can be disgusting abusive shitheads.)

I think the confusion stems from when individuals are discussing male-on-female abuse and someone else decides to throw in women being abusers too or men also being abused.
It's considered rude if the conversation was not already open to such topics, since it comes off as "Well I know you've suffered, but what about ME?" or "I know you've had awful experiences and are discussing them, but not ALL [insert group here] are bad".
Like, yeah. People know this. They are aware.

So maybe not so much the facts themselves as the way in which people decided to broach them sometimes.
(I have personally seen a couple instances of a man bringing up their abuse by a woman to a feminist or a group of feminists and receiving nothing but support and sympathy for what happened to them, along with condemnation of their abuser.
The lack of resources for men that have experienced abuse, particularly those whose abusers included women, is something that does concern at least a subset of feminists; largely those that subscribe to the idea of intersectionality.
The issue is, again, when these things are brought up in a way that it appears like a deliberate derailing or takeover of existing discussion. When those involved have had personal experience of such traumas, they seem more likely to respond poorly to a perception of such.)

Particularly amongst those I know, if there is an abusive individual (regardless of gender or any other marker) that they know personally then that person is immediately cut off.
There is 'zero tolerance' for such behaviour, and it tends to be the result of strong convictions as to what is and is not acceptable: maintaining positive relationships with abusive individuals, much less supporting/protecting them, is considered reprehensible.
(It is seen as condoning/accepting the abuse.)
The instant there is any solid confirmation, that person is dropped from the social group.
(And even before that, the general rule is to never dismiss accusations of abuse off-hand. So things may well become a little chilled until the balance of evidence can be weighed.)

Like, I've even seen discussion of the prevalence of abuse in regards to LGBTQIA relationships.
So all genders, all sexualities.
Again, not sure how well this extends to feminists in general.
I'd like to think that any denial or opposition is simple ignorance and that someone to whom accurate information (backed by reliable evidence) is communicated will listen and take it on-board.
(Maybe not initially, but that in time any doubt may allow truth to be accepted.)
I suppose part of the problem is when the information is coming from a clearly biased source (ie: some of the things Ostro links, where it's even admitted by Ostro that they're not ideal sources), and it becomes that much easier to consider whatever is being conveyed to be 'tainted' and driven by a political goal.

Short version:
At least some feminists do, and no-one I know has ever suggested that women can do no wrong.
(Case in point: feminists vs TERFs.)


Well, I think part of the issues I take with your explanations--which I believe are being presented in the best of good faith by the way--is that while for instance you make points about derailing, bad examples of feminsm, and ignorance, that I would say this in response to that:

1. That the conversations I have been trying to take part in were about the general subject of abuse, often related to public information and so on--which tended to state domestic and sexual abuse as though they are entirely a problem suffered by girls and women inflicted by men and boys. So is me pointing out "it happens to males and by females too' derailing or is it actually trying to make the conversation fair?

Because I'll tell you how I feel about that to be blunt: I feel deeply outcast from such a conversation. I feel as though my own suffering is not part of the general social question, as though I would have to be schooled in non-abuse and as though my own desire for safety is just handwaved.

I keep hearing about people like you and your friends who talk about how they never tolerate the idea of abuse towards anyone. That's great--except I want to see public conversations that are the same. Is that too much to ask? Are you telling me NOT to be worried or offended when I see how one sided these public conversations are?

I don't get the impression that is what you are saying, but you seem to not see that there are no real public discussions in feminist circles I have ever seen that take into account female on female or female on male abuse.

2. The examples of ignorance and poor sources: in a way I don't care. Public statements by feminist leaders and activists that people take exception to and that other feminists brush aside or handwave by saying 'most feminists are good' is not good enough. Coupled with my concerns above, it contributes to my view that feminism is for women and men who support women.

Again--that's fair enough if that IS the case, but the problem is that all but the most radical of radical feminists essentially say that feminism is good for everybody.
"The three articles of Civil Service faith: it takes longer to do things quickly, it's far more expensive to do things cheaply, and it's more democratic to do things in secret." - Jim Hacker "Yes Minister"

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Cyrisnia
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Posts: 3982
Founded: Jun 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Cyrisnia » Fri May 01, 2015 7:58 pm

Chessmistress wrote:
Galloism wrote:And logical people.

And liberal feminists.

And egalitarians.

And people who didn't like the movie Frozen.

And people whose names start with the letter P.....


As far as I know liberal "feminists" are pornography supporters, some are even supporters of exploitation of women thorugh prostitution, you know?
I don't think there's such thing as "egalitarian": feminism is equality.

However it's not just only here, and not just only in public: in the last days with my true feminist thoughts I even upsetted a woman in real world - her name start with F, not with P... :p she even compared me to a terrorist :eyebrow: but I already forgive her and she have already forgive me :hug: conservative girlfriends are not just only a peculiarity of misogynists, even women like me can have such partners, you know? Life can be complex, sometimes....
In other words: if I'm ready to quarrel with my partner in order to defend my thoughts, who can really think I'll give a **** about criticism from other people?

Fatima's Fancy and Fantabulous Feminist Frackas


#cantstopme
R E D L E G S


【BORN TO ABOLISH】
SOUTH IS A F**K
鬼神 Kill Em All 1859
I am free man
410,757,864,530 DEAD REBS

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New Skaaneland
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Posts: 749
Founded: Dec 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby New Skaaneland » Sat May 02, 2015 3:04 am

Why don't we all hold hands and sing "We shall overcome"?
Undo the Taylor report!
Club over group. Club over country. Club over race. Club over sex. Club over God.

OOOOO HELSINGBORGS IF OOOOO

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The Lone Alliance
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Posts: 8855
Founded: May 25, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Lone Alliance » Sat May 02, 2015 4:31 am

New Skaaneland wrote:Why don't we all hold hands and sing "We shall overcome"?
I'd rather be their arch nemesis.

Chessmistress wrote:In other words: if I'm ready to quarrel with my partner in order to defend my thoughts, who can really think I'll give a **** about criticism from other people?
Does the F stand for Fraud or Feud, because I don't believe you have a relationship with anything but your own ego.
Last edited by The Lone Alliance on Sat May 02, 2015 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -Herman Goering
--------------
War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; -William Tecumseh Sherman
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Chessmistress
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Founded: Mar 16, 2015
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Postby Chessmistress » Sat May 02, 2015 6:36 am

Kelinfort wrote:A radical sex negative TERF/SWERF feminist...if you're a true feminist, Ostro's right about the hate cult thing.

1. How is porn exploitation if the actress is well paid and enjoys her work?
2. How is prostitution bad when sex workers control their career, earn a good living, and enjoy their work?


"Sex-negative"? No, I think that word is just a scam. A scam designed to hide the fact that the self-proclaimed "sex-positive" are not about sex or in favor of sex but in favor of prostitution and pornography - and pornography and prostitution are not sex. Fact check ;)
Prostitution is a shame, it exploit prostitutes and it diminish all women.
Purchasing of prostitution is already outlawed in Sweden, Iceland, Norway and Canada. Since June, 1, 2015 it'll be even in Northern Ireland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitut ... rrent_laws
The vote on clause 6 was 81:10 to approve it.[24] 95% of the Human Trafficking and Exploitation Act 2015 came into effect on royal assent. The criminalisation of the purchase of sexual services will only come in to effect on the 1st of June 2015.

Then UK and other countries will follow.
http://www.theguardian.com/global-devel ... parliament
European parliament backs the 'Nordic model' of prostitution, which legalises the selling of sex but criminalises buying it

The European parliament has voted in favour of a resolution to criminalise the purchase of sex.

On Wednesday, 343 MEPs backed a report proposed by the London MEP and Labour spokeswoman for women in Europe, Mary Honeyball, which recommends the adoption of the "Nordic model" of prostitution that legalises selling sex but criminalises buying it. Some 139 MEPs voted against;105 abstained.

The yes vote formally establishes the EU's stance on prostitution and puts pressure on member states to re-evaluate their policies on sex work.

"Today's outcome represents a vital signal from MEPs that we cannot continue to tolerate the exploitation of women," Honeyball said. "Rather than blanket legalisation, parliament has backed the more nuanced approach already practised in Sweden as a means of tackling prostitution. This punishes men who treat women's bodies as a commodity, without criminalising women who are driven into sex work.

Your thoughts are just against the future, IMHO.

Pornography will follow...you cannot stop women's rights.

The Lone Alliance wrote:Does the F stand for Fraud or Feud, because I don't believe you have a relationship with anything but your own ego.


Without offense, I don't believe a male can understand how a relationship between women works.

I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it.
- Barbara Jordan, former congresswoman
http://womenshistory.about.com/od/quote ... jordan.htm
Last edited by Chessmistress on Sat May 02, 2015 6:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
OOC:
Radical Feminist, caring about the oppressed gender, that's why I have a strong sense of justice.

PRO:
Radical Feminism (proudly SWERF - moderately TERF),
Gender abolitionism,
birth control and population control,
affirmative ongoing VERBAL consent,
death penalty for rapists.

AGAINST:
patriarchy,
pornography,
heteronormativity,
domestic violence and femicide.


Favorite Quotes: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=ches ... /id=403173

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72260
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat May 02, 2015 7:17 am

Chessmistress wrote:
Kelinfort wrote:A radical sex negative TERF/SWERF feminist...if you're a true feminist, Ostro's right about the hate cult thing.

1. How is porn exploitation if the actress is well paid and enjoys her work?
2. How is prostitution bad when sex workers control their career, earn a good living, and enjoy their work?


"Sex-negative"? No, I think that word is just a scam. A scam designed to hide the fact that the self-proclaimed "sex-positive" are not about sex or in favor of sex but in favor of prostitution and pornography - and pornography and prostitution are not sex. Fact check ;)
Prostitution is a shame, it exploit prostitutes and it diminish all women.
Purchasing of prostitution is already outlawed in Sweden, Iceland, Norway and Canada. Since June, 1, 2015 it'll be even in Northern Ireland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitut ... rrent_laws
The vote on clause 6 was 81:10 to approve it.[24] 95% of the Human Trafficking and Exploitation Act 2015 came into effect on royal assent. The criminalisation of the purchase of sexual services will only come in to effect on the 1st of June 2015.

Then UK and other countries will follow.
http://www.theguardian.com/global-devel ... parliament
European parliament backs the 'Nordic model' of prostitution, which legalises the selling of sex but criminalises buying it

The European parliament has voted in favour of a resolution to criminalise the purchase of sex.

On Wednesday, 343 MEPs backed a report proposed by the London MEP and Labour spokeswoman for women in Europe, Mary Honeyball, which recommends the adoption of the "Nordic model" of prostitution that legalises selling sex but criminalises buying it. Some 139 MEPs voted against;105 abstained.

The yes vote formally establishes the EU's stance on prostitution and puts pressure on member states to re-evaluate their policies on sex work.

"Today's outcome represents a vital signal from MEPs that we cannot continue to tolerate the exploitation of women," Honeyball said. "Rather than blanket legalisation, parliament has backed the more nuanced approach already practised in Sweden as a means of tackling prostitution. This punishes men who treat women's bodies as a commodity, without criminalising women who are driven into sex work.

Your thoughts are just against the future, IMHO.

Pornography will follow...you cannot stop women's rights.

The Lone Alliance wrote:Does the F stand for Fraud or Feud, because I don't believe you have a relationship with anything but your own ego.


Without offense, I don't believe a male can understand how a relationship between women works.

I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it.
- Barbara Jordan, former congresswoman
http://womenshistory.about.com/od/quote ... jordan.htm

Yay!

Moar sexist bullshiat!

For your next trick, tell us about how you're all for equality while men are inherently inferior at the same time.
Last edited by Galloism on Sat May 02, 2015 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Kelinfort
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16394
Founded: Nov 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Sat May 02, 2015 7:24 am

Chessmistress wrote:
Kelinfort wrote:A radical sex negative TERF/SWERF feminist...if you're a true feminist, Ostro's right about the hate cult thing.

1. How is porn exploitation if the actress is well paid and enjoys her work?
2. How is prostitution bad when sex workers control their career, earn a good living, and enjoy their work?


"Sex-negative"? No, I think that word is just a scam. A scam designed to hide the fact that the self-proclaimed "sex-positive" are not about sex or in favor of sex but in favor of prostitution and pornography - and pornography and prostitution are not sex. Fact check ;)
Prostitution is a shame, it exploit prostitutes and it diminish all women.
Purchasing of prostitution is already outlawed in Sweden, Iceland, Norway and Canada. Since June, 1, 2015 it'll be even in Northern Ireland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitut ... rrent_laws
The vote on clause 6 was 81:10 to approve it.[24] 95% of the Human Trafficking and Exploitation Act 2015 came into effect on royal assent. The criminalisation of the purchase of sexual services will only come in to effect on the 1st of June 2015.

Then UK and other countries will follow.
http://www.theguardian.com/global-devel ... parliament
European parliament backs the 'Nordic model' of prostitution, which legalises the selling of sex but criminalises buying it

The European parliament has voted in favour of a resolution to criminalise the purchase of sex.

On Wednesday, 343 MEPs backed a report proposed by the London MEP and Labour spokeswoman for women in Europe, Mary Honeyball, which recommends the adoption of the "Nordic model" of prostitution that legalises selling sex but criminalises buying it. Some 139 MEPs voted against;105 abstained.

The yes vote formally establishes the EU's stance on prostitution and puts pressure on member states to re-evaluate their policies on sex work.

"Today's outcome represents a vital signal from MEPs that we cannot continue to tolerate the exploitation of women," Honeyball said. "Rather than blanket legalisation, parliament has backed the more nuanced approach already practised in Sweden as a means of tackling prostitution. This punishes men who treat women's bodies as a commodity, without criminalising women who are driven into sex work.

Your thoughts are just against the future, IMHO.

Pornography will follow...you cannot stop women's rights.


Again, wouldn't this ruin their livelihoods? It's a bit like criminalising buying medical treatment, but not selling it. If they work solely for themselves, earn a decent living, and like their work, why make it harder for them to do business?

User avatar
Kelinfort
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16394
Founded: Nov 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Sat May 02, 2015 7:25 am

Galloism wrote:
Chessmistress wrote:
"Sex-negative"? No, I think that word is just a scam. A scam designed to hide the fact that the self-proclaimed "sex-positive" are not about sex or in favor of sex but in favor of prostitution and pornography - and pornography and prostitution are not sex. Fact check ;)
Prostitution is a shame, it exploit prostitutes and it diminish all women.
Purchasing of prostitution is already outlawed in Sweden, Iceland, Norway and Canada. Since June, 1, 2015 it'll be even in Northern Ireland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitut ... rrent_laws

Then UK and other countries will follow.
http://www.theguardian.com/global-devel ... parliament

Your thoughts are just against the future, IMHO.

Pornography will follow...you cannot stop women's rights.



Without offense, I don't believe a male can understand how a relationship between women works.

- Barbara Jordan, former congresswoman
http://womenshistory.about.com/od/quote ... jordan.htm

Yay!

Moar sexist bullshiat!

For your next trick, tell us about how you're all for equality while men are inherently inferior at the same time.

Poe confirmed. Move along citizens.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72260
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat May 02, 2015 7:27 am

Kelinfort wrote:
Chessmistress wrote:
"Sex-negative"? No, I think that word is just a scam. A scam designed to hide the fact that the self-proclaimed "sex-positive" are not about sex or in favor of sex but in favor of prostitution and pornography - and pornography and prostitution are not sex. Fact check ;)
Prostitution is a shame, it exploit prostitutes and it diminish all women.
Purchasing of prostitution is already outlawed in Sweden, Iceland, Norway and Canada. Since June, 1, 2015 it'll be even in Northern Ireland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitut ... rrent_laws

Then UK and other countries will follow.
http://www.theguardian.com/global-devel ... parliament

Your thoughts are just against the future, IMHO.

Pornography will follow...you cannot stop women's rights.


Again, wouldn't this ruin their livelihoods? It's a bit like criminalising buying medical treatment, but not selling it. If they work solely for themselves, earn a decent living, and like their work, why make it harder for them to do business?

Medical treatment is a tool of the patriarchy, so we can do whatever we want.

Shut up and accept it. It doesn't have to make sense - it fights the patriarchy!

Or something.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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