"We are in America's second Revolutionary War"

[KiloMikeAlpha]

I didn't mean to assert that a trophy elk that was purchased from a farm and point-blanked was in any way as valid as a trophy elk taken in the wild. Far from it. In fact, it was not even my intention to comment on the hunters that utilize the farms at all, though I suppose it was inevitable. Rather, I was merely detailing how being a trophy elk rancher is not inherently douchebag-y. They are simply exploiting a demand in the market, and doing so in a comparatively humane and appropriate way, as far as cattle go. Besides, I imagine they make a bit of cash off the shed antlers as well for those who'd rather not hunt them, but that's just speculation on my part.

Regardless of it's legal status, it remains unethical.

It is interesting to me that it is outlawed in some states. I don't think butchering cows (cow cows, not cow elk ) is illegal in any state (yet), and the elk has a far more sporting chance than they do. Maybe it's just butthurt government officials who can't afford the trophy elk being all jealous and not wanting those elk to count .

Apples and oranges.

By the by, does anyone know if domesticated elk, grown on an elk ranch, can even qualify for state records? Or do they have to be native? I should know this, my family being the sport hunters they are but alas it has been some time

Boone and Crockett eligibility rules state:

For the purpose of entry into the Boone and Crockett Club’s® records, North American big game harvested by the use of the following methods or under the following conditions are ineligible:

I. Spotting or herding game from the air, followed by landing in its vicinity for the purpose of pursuit and shooting;
II. Herding or chasing with the aid of any motorized equipment;
III. Use of electronic communication devices to guide hunters to game, artificial lighting, electronic light intensifying devices (night vision optics), sights with built-in electronic range-finding capabilities, thermal imaging equipment, electronic game calls or cameras/timers/motion tracking devices that transmit images and other information to the hunter;
IV. Confined by artificial barriers, including escape-proof fenced enclosures;
V. Transplanted for the purpose of commercial shooting;
VI. By the use of traps or pharmaceuticals;
VII. While swimming, helpless in deep snow, or helpless in any other natural or artificial medium;
VIII. On another hunter’s license;
IX. Not in full compliance with the game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands;

http://www.boone-crockett.org/huntingEt ... tingEthics

But, in my experience, most folks who want a big trophy want something to show off and make up for something inadequatre intheir own lives, and a trophy hanging on the wall does that better than a name in the record books.

In my experience, trophies are about memories of the hunt. I have a pretty nice one in my living room that was killed in a totally open ranch.

[Maxaxle]

In a word:
FREAKING RELIGIOUS NUTS!!!

That was three words. *mutters something about public education*

I'm using "in a word" as the expression, as in "basically" or "in a nutshell", not literally.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

In a word:
FREAKING RELIGIOUS NUTS!!!

That was three words. *mutters something about public education*

I'm using "in a word" as the expression, as in "basically" or "in a nutshell", not literally.

Oh. Carry on with your drivel then.

[Maxaxle]

In a word:
FREAKING RELIGIOUS NUTS!!!

That was three words. *mutters something about public education*

I'm using "in a word" as the expression, as in "basically" or "in a nutshell", not literally.

Oh. Carry on with your drivel then.

BTW, I personally think snakes look more attractive with tire treads placed carefully .

[Daistallia 2104]

Funny story actually. I did kill a deer with my bare hands, sorta. I was hunting with my daughter and using a borrowed rifle. The owner of the rifle said it was hyper accurate and never missed. So I drew down on a doe and tried a head shot. I missed. An hour or two later, when the deer all came back, I decided that a head shot wasnt going to cut it, so I decided on a neck shot. I shot her in the neck. The bullet hit the spine, went down , hit the breastbone (?) and exited the front leg that was facing away. This exit wound basically blew off her leg. She went down and was sorta flopping around. I walked up to her and being the stupid bad-ass that I am, took out my 12" ka-bar.

I told my daughter to turn around, because I didnt want her to see me go all al qaeda on this deer. She turned around and I grabbed the doe by the neck and stabbed it in the neck to try to bleed it out. This doe then flipped out and flung her broken leg around on me and NAILED me right in the chest. My daughter, who didnt listen and had turned around, saw this as was rolling around on the ground laughing. I finally got her, the doe, not my daughter, dead and field dressed.

When I got home, I had a bruise the size of a serving plate on my chest. My wife NEVER lets me live hat one down.

BTW, I actually do like your use of harvesting and agree with you that it's about the meat and not the trophy. But the laws and ethics guidelines are in place more for sport/trophy hunters. And that's what these canned hunts generally are about.

Anywho, regarding that story, emphasis on stupid there. You were lucky to get off with just a bruise. Hope you learned your lessonin hunter safety!

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Funny story actually. I did kill a deer with my bare hands, sorta. I was hunting with my daughter and using a borrowed rifle. The owner of the rifle said it was hyper accurate and never missed. So I drew down on a doe and tried a head shot. I missed. An hour or two later, when the deer all came back, I decided that a head shot wasnt going to cut it, so I decided on a neck shot. I shot her in the neck. The bullet hit the spine, went down , hit the breastbone (?) and exited the front leg that was facing away. This exit wound basically blew off her leg. She went down and was sorta flopping around. I walked up to her and being the stupid bad-ass that I am, took out my 12" ka-bar.

I told my daughter to turn around, because I didnt want her to see me go all al qaeda on this deer. She turned around and I grabbed the doe by the neck and stabbed it in the neck to try to bleed it out. This doe then flipped out and flung her broken leg around on me and NAILED me right in the chest. My daughter, who didnt listen and had turned around, saw this as was rolling around on the ground laughing. I finally got her, the doe, not my daughter, dead and field dressed.

When I got home, I had a bruise the size of a serving plate on my chest. My wife NEVER lets me live hat one down.

BTW, I actually do like your use of harvesting and agree with you that it's about the meat and not the trophy. But the laws and ethics guidelines are in place more for sport/trophy hunters. And that's what these canned hunts generally are about.

Anywho, regarding that story, emphasis on stupid there. You were lucky to get off with just a bruise. Hope you learned your lessonin hunter safety!

Your earlier comments about hunting

Yeah. Momma always said "Stupid is as stupid does". I talk with hunter guides on a weekly basis and they usually hunt on "managed game ranches". I will ask them about B&C scores and how the system down here handles that.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

In a word:
FREAKING RELIGIOUS NUTS!!!

That was three words. *mutters something about public education*

I'm using "in a word" as the expression, as in "basically" or "in a nutshell", not literally.

Oh. Carry on with your drivel then.

BTW, I personally think snakes look more attractive with tire treads placed carefully .

That went completely over my head.

[Daistallia 2104]

But, in my experience, most folks who want a big trophy want something to show off and make up for something inadequatre intheir own lives, and a trophy hanging on the wall does that better than a name in the record books.

In my experience, trophies are about memories of the hunt. I have a pretty nice one in my living room that was killed in a totally open ranch.

Note I said big trophys, not trophys. I don't hunt anymore, but don't have any problems with hunting in general, just with certain types of hunters. If the trophy is secondary, I'm fine with it, but if the trophy's first and fore most, I'm not so fine with it. Those hunters need to straighten something out in their lives.

The only trophy from any of my deer was my dad's taking the "rack" of my first kill - a spike buck with antlers barely past the hair on his head.

Consider what's a better memory - a trophy with minimal effort or one you had to work for?

Yeah. Momma always said "Stupid is as stupid does". I talk with hunter guides on a weekly basis and they usually hunt on "managed game ranches". I will ask them about B&C scores and how the system down here handles that.

Heheheh

Only place I hunted near Kerrville was Bear Creek Scout camp.

[Reploid Productions]

Regardless of it's legal status, it remains unethical.

That's still referring to the hunters themselves, not the businesses that cater to domesticated game. I don't really lump them into the same boat, since one is actually doing the "unethical act" while the other one is merely fulfilling a market demand. Just because someone owns/runs an elk farm, does not mean that they also utilize farms for their hunting.

Boone and Crockett eligibility rules state:
[spoiler=Dem Eligibility Criterion]

For the purpose of entry into the Boone and Crockett Club’s® records, North American big game harvested by the use of the following methods or under the following conditions are ineligible:

I. Spotting or herding game from the air, followed by landing in its vicinity for the purpose of pursuit and shooting;
II. Herding or chasing with the aid of any motorized equipment;
III. Use of electronic communication devices to guide hunters to game, artificial lighting, electronic light intensifying devices (night vision optics), sights with built-in electronic range-finding capabilities, thermal imaging equipment, electronic game calls or cameras/timers/motion tracking devices that transmit images and other information to the hunter;
IV. Confined by artificial barriers, including escape-proof fenced enclosures;
V. Transplanted for the purpose of commercial shooting;
VI. By the use of traps or pharmaceuticals;
VII. While swimming, helpless in deep snow, or helpless in any other natural or artificial medium;
VIII. On another hunter’s license;
IX. Not in full compliance with the game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands;

http://www.boone-crockett.org/huntingEt ... tingEthics
But, in my experience, most folks who want a big trophy want something to show off and make up for something inadequatre intheir own lives, and a trophy hanging on the wall does that better than a name in the record books.

Or they want them as decoration. I've never met someone who used an elk farm to harvest a large elk personally, but I cannot imagine them bragging about it in the same way a hunter who shot a free-range animal might. For instance, when my father brought home his 10x9 mule deer from Southern Utah, only a very cursory amount of time was actually spent describing the size of the deer; most of it was describing the actual hunt in stalking it, etc. Whereas a farm hunter would likely describe his trophy like one would a car acquisition, "Yeah it cost me a bundle, but it sure is a beauty", etc.

But for the sake of coming to terms between us, I will say this much: any hunter trying to taut a farm-shot elk as an example of hunting prowess is indeed exhibiting prevalent douchebaggery. The government official being discussed in the original topic of this thread may or may not be one of those, but it does not say. All it says is that he owns an elk hunting preserve, not that he uses them.

EDIT: I have no idea WTF is up with my small text. After a half dozen edits, still can't fix it XD[/spoiler]

[Mikertaz Kein]

Heh, the bottom of your post cut out...


You broke NS, congrats...

[KiloMikeAlpha]

But, in my experience, most folks who want a big trophy want something to show off and make up for something inadequatre intheir own lives, and a trophy hanging on the wall does that better than a name in the record books.

In my experience, trophies are about memories of the hunt. I have a pretty nice one in my living room that was killed in a totally open ranch.

Note I said big trophys, not trophys. I don't hunt anymore, but don't have any problems with hunting in general, just with certain types of hunters. If the trophy is secondary, I'm fine with it, but if the trophy's first and fore most, I'm not so fine with it. Those hunters need to straighten something out in their lives.

The only trophy from any of my deer was my dad's taking the "rack" of my first kill - a spike buck with antlers barely past the hair on his head.

Consider what's a better memory - a trophy with minimal effort or one you had to work for?

Yeah. Momma always said "Stupid is as stupid does". I talk with hunter guides on a weekly basis and they usually hunt on "managed game ranches". I will ask them about B&C scores and how the system down here handles that.

Heheheh

Only place I hunted near Kerrville was Bear Creek Scout camp.

I know Bear Creek Scout Camp pretty well. I took my first rack and hung it in the garage. I chased my oldest girl's vegan friend around the house with it every time she came over. When I mean memory of the hunt, to me that means, the times at the hunting cabin, the camaraderie, picking the right deer, farting contests in the deer stand.... you know... the memories.

[Daistallia 2104]

Or they want them as decoration.

Which is more or less a reduplication of what I said.

I've never met someone who used an elk farm to harvest a large elk personally, but I cannot imagine them bragging about it in the same way a hunter who shot a free-range animal might. For instance, when my father brought home his 10x9 mule deer from Southern Utah, only a very cursory amount of time was actually spent describing the size of the deer; most of it was describing the actual hunt in stalking it, etc. Whereas a farm hunter would likely describe his trophy like one would a car acquisition, "Yeah it cost me a bundle, but it sure is a beauty", etc.

The types I'm think of are your basic showoffs. And yes I've kown a few "hunters" like that. Very similar to the guy who thinks he's a great human because he drives an XYZ auto.

But for the sake of coming to terms between us, I will say this much: any hunter trying to taut a farm-shot elk as an example of hunting prowess is indeed exhibiting prevalent douchebaggery. The government official being discussed in the original topic of this thread may or may not be one of those, but it does not say. All it says is that he owns an elk hunting preserve, not that he uses them.

This is still a side point, but he's running for office in order to support a business I consider unethical. Canned hunts are, in my opinion unethical. The ethical problems include those who operate said hunts.

EDIT: I have no idea WTF is up with my small text. After a half dozen edits, still can't fix it XD

Odd...

[Daistallia 2104]

I know Bear Creek Scout Camp pretty well. I took my first rack and hung it in the garage. I chased my oldest girl's vegan friend around the house with it every time she came over. When I mean memory of the hunt, to me that means, the times at the hunting cabin, the camaraderie, picking the right deer, farting contests in the deer stand.... you know... the memories.

Hehehe... Dang, you've managed something very few have in a very long time. I'm a bit homesick now.