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18 yr old shoots at off-duty St. Louis cop, gets killed

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:41 am
by DnalweN acilbupeR
ST. LOUIS -- An off-duty police officer fatally shot an 18-year-old man who opened fire during a chase in south St. Louis, police said Thursday. Demonstrations followed the shooting.

St. Louis Police Chief Col. Sam Dotson said the 32-year-old officer was patrolling the Shaw neighborhood for a private security company late Wednesday when the shooting happened.

The officer said three men in the street ran away when they spotted him, Dotson said during a news conference early Thursday. The way that one of the men ran - grabbing at his waistband, slightly lopsided - indicated he was carrying a weapon, so the officer chased him, Dotson said.

The man turned and fired at the officer, who returned fire and killed him, the police chief said.

Ballistic evidence recovered from the scene indicates that the man fired three rounds at the officer before his weapon jammed, Dotson said, adding that the gun was also recovered.

The officer fired 17 shots, Dotson said. He said he didn't know how many hit the suspect or why the officer fired that many shots.

"An investigation will decide if the officer's behavior was appropriate," he said at police headquarters.

People who described themselves as relatives of the dead man told The St. Louis Post Dispatch he was not armed.

Dotson described the officer as a six-year veteran of the St. Louis Police Department, and said the man who was killed was 18 years old and black.

He didn't name either man.

People began to gather at the scene near the Missouri Botanical Garden shortly after the shooting, reports CBS St. Louis affiliate KMOV-TV. Family members of the victim on the scene were crying. Others at the scene yelled threats at officers.

Some people shouted "Hands up, don't shoot" -- a reference to the fatal shooting in August of an unarmed black man, Michael Brown, by a white police officer in nearby Ferguson. That shooting led to weeks of sometimes violent unrest in the St. Louis suburb. Officer Darren Wilson has not been charged in the shooting.

Dotson said some in the crowd shouted obscenities at officers and damaged police cars, but that the officers "showed great restraint."

He added, "Any police officer use of force certainly will draw attention."

KMOV reporter Julian Johnson says some members of the crowd approached police in an aggressive manner and started chanting. He also saw several people following officers and getting in officers' faces.

Around 10:40p, Johnson says, he heard several shots fired. It's not known who fired them, but police say it wasn't them.

No demonstrators were arrested and by 1 a.m., the crowd had largely dispersed.

© 2014 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-dead-after-officer-involved-shooting-in-south-st-louis/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-officer-fatally-shoots-man-st-louis-26062869

It's starting to get annoying when every time a black person is shot and killed by cops a protest spawns up.

My stance:

The race card is so hugely overplayed in America, it's not even funny anymore.

Does racial profiling exist? YES it fucking does. Meaning that you're more likely to get stopped/ID'd/searched if you're black than if you're white for example. Now, implying that this = "shot for being blackkk!!!1111" or "all things being equal you're more likely to get shot if you're black" is a stinking pile of bullshit, and I wish the worst to anyone and everyone spreading it around. In lethal-force situations danger is perceived plainly as danger, not "is this kid black or white? oh he's black so I better shoot him lol" . The only reason more black individuals may be getting shot/killed by police than whites is that, because they are profiled they end up in those situations more often than them. It's not "whitey keepin us down", it's "we're fucking stupid and can't / don't want to handle interaction with cops civilly", for those blacks (or any person of any race for that matter) that are allegedly innocent yet end up getting shot by police.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:44 am
by Indira
It is, but I suspect there would be less flare up if the cops didn't have such a bad reputation in America with ethnic minorities

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:46 am
by DnalweN acilbupeR
The people who damaged police cars should have been arrested.

.....

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:46 am
by Siburria
meh, just another day in america.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:46 am
by Susurruses
You really trust the police version of the story?
Without any actual evidence shown?
Despite other witnesses saying otherwise?

Hmmmmmmm.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:46 am
by The Sotoan Union
Are cops required to chase after people with weapons? Because he was drawing his weapon as he was running.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:56 am
by DnalweN acilbupeR
Susurruses wrote:You really trust the police version of the story?
Without any actual evidence shown?
Despite other witnesses saying otherwise?

Hmmmmmmm.


The story is very fresh and the PD has barely any reason to cover up for an off-duty cop.

Witnesses? What witnesses? The ones who said that the kid was unarmed were his family/relatives, and frankly, what could you expect?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:56 am
by DnalweN acilbupeR
Siburria wrote:meh, just another day in america.


Thanks for this valuable contribution.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:56 am
by Vladislavija
patrolling the historic Shaw neighborhood in his police uniform for a private security company


Am I reading this right? If he as in a a police uniform then he should have been on duty. If he was not on duty, why was he in a uniform?

Also you don't shoot at uniformed cops ever. You also do not run from cops.

Also, how many bullet does a police gun hold?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:58 am
by DnalweN acilbupeR
The Sotoan Union wrote:Are cops required to chase after people with weapons? Because he was drawing his weapon as he was running.


This is beside the point. He wasn't even on-duty to begin with. Even if unwarranted, there is nothing illegal in chasing someone, and getting chased does not excuse shooting someone.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:58 am
by Sdaeriji
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
Susurruses wrote:You really trust the police version of the story?
Without any actual evidence shown?
Despite other witnesses saying otherwise?

Hmmmmmmm.


The story is very fresh and the PD has barely any reason to cover up for an off-duty cop.

Witnesses? What witnesses? The ones who said that the kid was unarmed were his family/relatives, and frankly, what could you expect?


Why do you believe the family would lie but you don't believe the police would? They both have the same interest, to protect one of their own.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:00 am
by Luziyca
Indira wrote:It is, but I suspect there would be less flare up if the cops didn't have such a bad reputation in America with ethnic minorities

I agree a bit. That said, more information is needed before I can make a valid judgement on this story.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:00 am
by Pope Joan
Too bad there's no video. I suppose rent-a-cops have no incentive to provide any.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:01 am
by The 502nd SS
Vladislavija wrote:
patrolling the historic Shaw neighborhood in his police uniform for a private security company


Am I reading this right? If he as in a a police uniform then he should have been on duty. If he was not on duty, why was he in a uniform?

Also you don't shoot at uniformed cops ever. You also do not run from cops.

Also, how many bullet does a police gun hold?

Maybe he just got off duty.

Some gangs make you do it

Depends on the PD

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:04 am
by DnalweN acilbupeR
Vladislavija wrote:
patrolling the historic Shaw neighborhood in his police uniform for a private security company


Am I reading this right? If he as in a a police uniform then he should have been on duty. If he was not on duty, why was he in a uniform?

Also you don't shoot at uniformed cops ever. You also do not run from cops.

Also, how many bullet does a police gun hold?


1. He was not on duty. He was off-duty and working for a private security company. Because he wore his uniform off-duty he has been suspended, or so I hear.

2. Yes, in 99% of cases this holds true I guess.

3. Police typically use semi-automatic handguns. The most common type are chambered in a cartridge like 9mm Para, .40 S&W or .45 ACP and use double-stack mags that can generally hold up to 20 rounds.

Although the same type is also highly popular both for personal, private carry and private security firms, I don't know if he was carrying his service pistol at the time.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:05 am
by DnalweN acilbupeR
Pope Joan wrote:Too bad there's no video. I suppose rent-a-cops have no incentive to provide any.


This particular rent-a-cop also happens to be an actual cop.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:06 am
by New switz empire
just because a cop shoots someone who is black does not make it racist!! :evil:

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:07 am
by Vladislavija
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
Vladislavija wrote:
Am I reading this right? If he as in a a police uniform then he should have been on duty. If he was not on duty, why was he in a uniform?

Also you don't shoot at uniformed cops ever. You also do not run from cops.

Also, how many bullet does a police gun hold?


1. He was not on duty. He was off-duty and working for a private security company. Because he wore his uniform off-duty he has been suspended, or so I hear.

2. Yes, in 99% of cases this holds true I guess.

3. Police typically use semi-automatic handguns. The most common type are chambered in a cartridge like 9mm Para, .40 S&W or .45 ACP and use double-stack mags that can generally hold up to 20 rounds.

Although the same type is also highly popular both for personal, private carry and private security firms, I don't know if he was carrying his service pistol at the time.


Thanks. I was under false impression most guns have only 12 rounds in a cartridge.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:07 am
by Laerod
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:It's starting to get annoying when every time a black person is shot and killed by cops a protest spawns up.

That's the problem with cops lying and faking evidence. At some point the people that take most of the shit stop believing them. It's called "crying wolf".

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:08 am
by Gig em Aggies
I suspectthe"Vic's" family just wNts to get on the band wagon and turn this into another ferguson. People are quick to lay blame without proper evidence of said incident. So I say wait and see.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:09 am
by Sahrani South
Good riddance! :)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:11 am
by Organized States
In regards to the uniform discussion, I tend to think it's probably the Security Company's uniform.

Also, here's another tip for you boys and girls, don't shoot at people. You don't know who's armed!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:11 am
by DnalweN acilbupeR
Sdaeriji wrote:
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
The story is very fresh and the PD has barely any reason to cover up for an off-duty cop.

Witnesses? What witnesses? The ones who said that the kid was unarmed were his family/relatives, and frankly, what could you expect?


Why do you believe the family would lie but you don't believe the police would? They both have the same interest, to protect one of their own.


The police doesn't have as strong an interest, if any, to protect an off-duty cop for a multitude of reasons. For starters, the deed was simply not done while on their clock, which is legally and PR relevant. They would get zero direct benefits by covering up for an off-duty cop, and considering the fact that he was wearing a police uniform whilst off-duty, few indirect ones.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:12 am
by Wisconsin9
Definitely gonna need more info before making a call on this.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:13 am
by Laerod
Gig em Aggies wrote:I suspectthe"Vic's" family just wNts to get on the band wagon and turn this into another ferguson. People are quick to lay blame without proper evidence of said incident. So I say wait and see.

It's rather natural for families to consider their own victims rather than having been lawfully shot. Imagine if someone shot one of your family members; you'd likely trust that they were innocent first rather than trusting the judgment of the cop that did it. This is because you typically know them better than you'll know that cop.