Feminism & The War on Men

[United States Kingdom]

you know is white privilege just an american thing? Because I know police brutality has happened up here in the past, and both that i heard of was of white individuals. again only ones I heard about.

Race relations are a hot topic in the United States particularly Black/White. You don't heavilly report a story that's not going to excite people so the news looks for a racial angle whenever possible. A few years back a white thug beat up a black car thief with a bat and it was treated as a hate crime, while the spectacle was going on a black man stabbed a white woman in what he termed an attempt to punish white people and stated that he targetted her because he wanted to kill a white woman. Even though the woman was killed and the car thief was not even permanently injured the second story was given next to no attention and the first story was subject to the full focus of the American media.

How are race relations related to this thread?

[Prezelly]

And men aren't?

Women, like men are educated for the workforce and unrecompensed; while student loan interest rates all but increase.

So women aren't equal in the work force because they have to get educated just like men and pay student debts just like men?

[Des-Bal]

Women, like men are educated for the workforce and unrecompensed; while student loan interest rates all but increase.

Then you aren't arguing any inequality exists you're just bemoaning the student loan structure which is better done in some other thread.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Women are educated for the workforce.

Stop giving one sentence answers. Please lay out your position.

Let the man do as he wishes. He will reveal what he feels is needed, when he feels it is needed.

[Tahar Joblis]

Or an system of mass incarceration victimizes many innocent people along with a small amount of actually dangerous people who need to be isolated from society, and happens to do so more than men than women. A person raising awareness of the disparity to advocate the destruction of the prison industrial complex is one thing, but someone saying women should be victimized by it more is a misogynist.

A system of mass incarceration is a piss-poor way of handling things. The peanut gallery should note that I characterized the system as biased against men, and you misrepresented me as saying I think women should be victimized more. I don't approve of the directions the US criminal system has taken regarding drugs, large-scale incarceration, and police misconduct, and I have spoken about that on NSG before; you can examine my record on the topic if you're curious. I am a believer in rehabilitation; I am opposed to the death penalty; I think we incarcerate far too high a percentage of our population; etc.

That does not change the facts that:

(A) Most crimes (of most kinds, murder being an exception) do not lead to an arrest.
(B) Many arrests do not lead to criminal charges.
(C) Many criminal charges do not lead to a conviction.
(D) In all three of the above steps, women are treated dramatically better than men (more strongly than the difference between the treatment of blacks and whites, even). This is especially strong for certain types of offenses (in particular sexual offenses).

Most people who land in prison are not innocent (somewhere around 5-15% of them probably are); this does not mean, however, that prison is the best place for them to be, or that the punishment suits the crime. Most people who aren't innocent aren't in prison. It's a very haphazard system... and one that very strongly privileges white women over black men.

[Fanosolia]

The words, "The Actual Hell America," come to mind.

Race relations have always been, rather tense in the US. Our history makes certain news stories more likely to grab attention.

it's just seems like the ultimate double standard to me. the first story, at least from what I know, defended his car from theft. Just doesn't seem to be a "hate crime" to me.

[Des-Bal]

How are race relations related to this thread?

Tertiarily and passingly.The subject was put to rest by the tame you saw fit to critique.

[Belique]

Yes there is a war on men. I feel that it is because the liberal organizations that control the media rely on guilt to boost party membership, but also to push their views on others. The pay gap is something that could be looked at more closely, and I do say it could be unfair. Feminism is an awful way of going about that. It promotes sectionalism, and increases divides. It fires up the debaters and gets people's deepest core feelings moving. Yes there is defenitly a war on the white male, and it's winning. Whites are being blamed for things like Ferguson. Yes they did something wrong, but the young man who was shot assaulted the officer. Now my best friends happens to be black, but he agrees that this public outcry based on race is rediculous. It creates hatred. Same thing with feminists to a lower extent.

[Des-Bal]

it's just seems like the ultimate double standard to me. the first story, at least from what I know, defended his car from theft. Just doesn't seem to be a "hate crime" to me.

It's not that simple but it's also not the subject of the thread. It highlights some of the flaws with the idea of privilege but it's really just an example more than a point of discussion.

[Belique]

Race relations have always been, rather tense in the US. Our history makes certain news stories more likely to grab attention.

it's just seems like the ultimate double standard to me. the first story, at least from what I know, defended his car from theft. Just doesn't seem to be a "hate crime" to me.

There is defenitly a double standard. This can be seen with the use of the n word. Why are people of other races permitted to use it when whites are not? If its wrong, it should be wrong for everyone.

[Des-Bal]

There is defenitly a double standard. This can be seen with the use of the n word. Why are people of other races permitted to use it when whites are not? If its wrong, it should be wrong for everyone.

There's at least one thread about racism somewhere in general please take this there.

[Keyboard Warriors]

it's just seems like the ultimate double standard to me. the first story, at least from what I know, defended his car from theft. Just doesn't seem to be a "hate crime" to me.

There is defenitly a double standard. This can be seen with the use of the n word. Why are people of other races permitted to use it when whites are not? If its wrong, it should be wrong for everyone.

Because the n word, like a lot of words created from slang, has a connotation that is highly dependent on the context of which it is used in.

[Des-Bal]

Because the n word, like a lot of words created from slang, has a connotation that is highly dependent on the context of which it is used in.

Please stop.

[T Roosevelt]

Women, like men are educated for the workforce and unrecompensed; while student loan interest rates all but increase.

So women aren't equal in the work force because they have to get educated just like men and pay student debts just like men?

There are many and grave dangers to equality between men and women. The lasting danger to equality is this immoral imperative. Women are being made to work for their education which won't avail sexism because they are confined to the strenuous duties of men.

[Des-Bal]

There are many and grave dangers to equality between men and women. The lasting danger to equality is this immoral imperative. Women are being made to work for their education which won't avail sexism because they are confined to the duties of men.

You aren't making any sense.Please begin making sence.

[Fanosolia]

(D) In all three of the above steps, women are treated dramatically better than men. This is especially strong for certain types of offenses (in particular sexual offenses).

I would hope that attitude would change in the future. It's probably the only thing I can agree with the mra on. All people are capable of the same crime to others, as much as they are capable of similar kindnesses.

it's just seems like the ultimate double standard to me. the first story, at least from what I know, defended his car from theft. Just doesn't seem to be a "hate crime" to me.

It's not that simple but it's also not the subject of the thread. It highlights some of the flaws with the idea of privilege but it's really just an example more than a point of discussion.

right sorry, I feel the need to comment on people that quotes my quotes

[Keyboard Warriors]

Because the n word, like a lot of words created from slang, has a connotation that is highly dependent on the context of which it is used in.

Please stop.

If you don't like the fact that somebody has presented an off-topic example to support their ideas of societal double standards or that somebody else then proceeded to strike out that example, you should take it to moderation rather than spamming the thread with orders to cease and desist, which ironically is far less productive to the discussion than either of the things you've so far complained about.

[Prezelly]

So women aren't equal in the work force because they have to get educated just like men and pay student debts just like men?

There are many and grave dangers to equality between men and women. The lasting danger to equality is this immoral imperative. Women are being made to work for their education which won't avail sexism because they are confined to the strenuous duties of men.

SO women have to work for the money for their education in a male profession, so do men. They have equal opportunities in the workforce and you haven't given any actual reason as to why not, I don't know where you are going with this but it doesn't seem like anywhere productive

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Yes there is a war on men. I feel that it is because the liberal organizations that control the media rely on guilt to boost party membership, but also to push their views on others.

Only if you consider the expression of views in the marketplace of ideas to be pushing one's views on others.

The pay gap is something that could be looked at more closely, and I do say it could be unfair. Feminism is an awful way of going about that. It promotes sectionalism, and increases divides

.

How does stating that women should have the same basic rights as men, and be treated equally, promote sectionalism and increase "divides" (sic)?

It fires up the debaters and gets people's deepest core feelings moving.

Yes. That's what controversial topics do. If you're uncomfortable with that, you're in the wrong place.

Yes there is defenitly a war on the white male, and it's winning.

Wait, what is winning?

Whites are being blamed for things like Ferguson. Yes they did something wrong, but the young man who was shot assaulted the officer.

This was the officer's excuse for shooting the young man in the back. Not a single eyewitness backs up this claim.

Now my best friends happens to be black,

You do realize, of course, that the "black best friend" is so commonly used as a weak defense that it's essentially a racist cliche when people try to use it as cover for bullshit opinions? It's second only to starting off a sentence with "I'm not a racist, but....'

but he agrees that this public outcry based on race is rediculous.

So this supposed black best friend speaks for all black people. Got it.

It creates hatred.

Yes, it's the protests against the shooting that are to blame for hatred being created, and not the shooting of an unarmed young man in the back, the leaving him out on the sidewalk for four hours, or the resultant non-response from the police department.

Same thing with feminists to a lower extent.

What, that the arguments that you make against feminism are similarly weak? I could buy that.

[T Roosevelt]

There are many and grave dangers to equality between men and women. The lasting danger to equality is this immoral imperative. Women are being made to work for their education which won't avail sexism because they are confined to the duties of men.

You aren't making any sense.Please begin making sence.

Manliness is strenuous and it has been forever, no amount of progress has altered mans' constant labor. It's unhealthy for both parents to be family breadwinners when the traditional duties of man and woman are fulfilled by none. If both parents are working, each American family should have a nanny.

[Prezelly]

You aren't making any sense.Please begin making sence.

Manliness is strenuous and it has been forever, no amount of progress has altered mans' constant labor. It's unhealthy for both parents to be family breadwinners when the traditional duties of man and woman are fulfilled by none.

We are debating equal rights in the work force for women and you tell me they pay for their education by working in male dominated workplaces...
That is logically inconsistent

[Des-Bal]

If you don't like the fact that somebody has presented an off-topic example to support their ideas of societal double standards or that somebody else then proceeded to strike out that example, you should take it to moderation rather than spamming the thread with orders to cease and desist, which ironically is far less productive to the discussion than either of the things you've so far complained about.

The most likely result of taking it moderation is the issue sitting in the queue for a few minutes or hours at which point the derailment will have reached the point where moderation decides they'd be better served simply shutting down the discussion. I find it preferable to issue the occasional neighborly reminder where necessary that while black white relations may be illustrative of kyriarchal politics it is not ultimately the issue up for discussion and the exploration of when it is and is not appropriate to say nigger is difficult to trace back to the actual subject.

[The Sanguinian Islands]

Like I say there is no such thing as "rape culture", there is no such thing as a "war on men". It's just kids who try to be special but just fail

[Des-Bal]

Manliness is strenuous and it has been forever, no amount of progress has altered mans' constant labor. It's unhealthy for both parents to be family breadwinners when the traditional duties of man and woman are fulfilled by none. If both parents are working, each American family should have a nanny.

Some of what you're saying is debatable, some if it is patently not true, and none of it really addresses sexism, feminism, or a "war on men" at all.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

If you don't like the fact that somebody has presented an off-topic example to support their ideas of societal double standards or that somebody else then proceeded to strike out that example, you should take it to moderation rather than spamming the thread with orders to cease and desist, which ironically is far less productive to the discussion than either of the things you've so far complained about.

The most likely result of taking it moderation is the issue sitting in the queue for a few minutes or hours at which point the derailment will have reached the point where moderation decides they'd be better served simply shutting down the discussion. I find it preferable to issue the occasional neighborly reminder where necessary that while black white relations may be illustrative of kyriarchal politics it is not ultimately the issue up for discussion and the exploration of when it is and is not appropriate to say nigger is difficult to trace back to the actual subject.

Holy shit, we agree 100% on something.