What side would you support in the Russian Revolution?

[United Marxist Nations]

Bolsheviks! Lenin was one of the few communists i look up too completely. If lenin had a actual chance to lead a peaceful Russia. the country would have been a much better place

It is quite literally impossible for an extremists to make a country a better place.

Oh really? I guess the USSR wasn't better than Imperial Russia then... Oh wait, it was.

[Ganos Lao]

Kerensky FTW.
But to be honest, he was a little useless. Arming the Bolsheviks to fight Kornilov was an idiotic move, but he couldn't rely on anyone else really, not that he could rely on the Bolsheviks.

Wasn't Kerensky the epitome of "between a rock and a hard place"?

[Isistetia]

Wait, no, these all seem like bad ideas in the long run

[Greater Beggnig]

Kerensky FTW.
But to be honest, he was a little useless. Arming the Bolsheviks to fight Kornilov was an idiotic move, but he couldn't rely on anyone else really, not that he could rely on the Bolsheviks.

Wasn't Kerensky the epitome of "between a rock and a hard place"?

True. Do we know even now what Kornilov's aims were?
Was he just trying to scare the Provisional Government, or was he attempting a coup?

[Sklavinia]

Kerensky FTW.
But to be honest, he was a little useless. Arming the Bolsheviks to fight Kornilov was an idiotic move, but he couldn't rely on anyone else really, not that he could rely on the Bolsheviks.

As big as a mistake as Chiang Kai-Shek continuing to fight Mao instead of working with him while the Japanese were invading, thus ruining his chances of getting support from the West.

[Mesrane]

Wait, no, these all seem like bad ideas in the long run

It comes down to, as usual, picking the lesser evil of the three. In this case, the provisional government.

[Altmora]

The provisional government made a HUGE mistake continuing WW1 but otherwise I would go with them, best road to democracy since Bolsheviks were...yeah not so great and the Tsar was just as bad.

[Omigeltar]

Makhno's Black Army, because I want to see how long their anarchist society would have lasted had the Red Army not destroyed them.

[Sklavinia]

It is quite literally impossible for an extremists to make a country a better place.

Oh really? I guess the USSR wasn't better than Imperial Russia then... Oh wait, it was.

HA HA HA HA HA, no.

Maybe it was better than Imperial Russia after Alexander II, but certainly not during or before. Imperial Russia was pretty awesome. It wasn't perfect, but it was a damn slight better than the Soviet Empire.

[Mesrane]

The provisional government made a HUGE mistake continuing WW1 but otherwise I would go with them, best road to democracy since Bolsheviks were...yeah not so great and the Tsar was just as bad.

Agreed. The Tsar was an awful, awful human being, and while Lenin may have not been that horrible, what followed obviously was.

[United Marxist Nations]

Oh really? I guess the USSR wasn't better than Imperial Russia then... Oh wait, it was.

HA HA HA HA HA, no.

Maybe it was better than Imperial Russia after Alexander II, but certainly not during or before. Imperial Russia was pretty awesome. It wasn't perfect, but it was a damn slight better than the Soviet Empire.

No it wasn't, the USSR was a modern country with a 99% literacy rate, a reasonably high standard of living, and a high life-expectancy (once it got off the ground, of course).

[Ganos Lao]

Russo-Mongolian Empire > Imperial/Soviet Russia, obviously.

In all seriousness, though:

Wasn't Kerensky the epitome of "between a rock and a hard place"?

True. Do we know even now what Kornilov's aims were?
Was he just trying to scare the Provisional Government, or was he attempting a coup?

On August 24 Vladimir Lvov, the former Procurator of the Holy Synod, arrived at Kornilov's headquarters claiming that he had been sent by Kerensky to gauge Kornilov's response to Kerensky's three proposed strategies to strengthen the government.

A dictatorship under Kerensky
An authoritarian government, in which Kornilov would be prominent
A military dictatorship under Kornilov

It is unclear whether Lvov was truly sent by Kerensky or if he was operating under the instructions of others. What is clear however, is that on his return to Petrograd on August 26, Lvov informed Kerensky and the Provisional Government that of the three proposed strategies Kornilov had responded most favourably to the idea of a military dictatorship with himself at the helm. That evening Kerensky, alarmed at the thought of a coup being directed at him, attempted to gain confirmation from Kornilov of his intentions. In a rather confused teleprinter conversation, in which Kerensky impersonated Lvov as well as conversing as himself, Kerensky interpreted Kornilov's responses to his questioning as confirmation of his intention to seize power by force. In response, Kerensky dismissed Kornilov from his position as Commander-in-Chief but with no apparent willing successor available he was reinstated within hours. Kerensky backed out of their deal.

When the telegram to dismiss Kornilov arrived, Kornilov - believing that Kerensky was acting under intense pressure from the Soviets (and consequently, the Bolsheviks) - ordered the aforementioned Third Cavalry Corps to move swiftly (or swifter) to Petrograd to put down what he assumed to be a Bolshevik uprising. At this point Kornilov, outraged by printed accusations that he demanded full civil and military power, asked the Russian people for help in overthrowing the Provisional Government. Kerensky by his actions provoked Kornilov to rebel—Kornilov rebelled only after having been charged with rebelling. To secure his position, Kerensky had to ask for Bolshevik assistance. He also sought help from the Petrograd Soviet, which called upon armed Red Guards to "defend the revolution". The Kornilov Affair failed largely due to the efforts of the Bolsheviks, whose influence over railroad and telegraph workers proved vital in stopping the movement of troops.

The affair irked the Russian military to the point many of its brass refused to help Kerensky, since they were disgruntled too much over the treatment of Kornilov (among other things).

[Mesrane]

HA HA HA HA HA, no.

Maybe it was better than Imperial Russia after Alexander II, but certainly not during or before. Imperial Russia was pretty awesome. It wasn't perfect, but it was a damn slight better than the Soviet Empire.

No it wasn't, the USSR was a modern country with a 99% literacy rate, a reasonably high standard of living, and a high life-expectancy (once it got off the ground, of course).

Let's ignore the tens of millions of people Stalian killed in his thirty year reign, right?

I'm NOT saying the Tsars did not commit genocide and the like, but Stalian killed more people in thirty years than the Romanovs did in three hundred.

[Sklavinia]

HA HA HA HA HA, no.

Maybe it was better than Imperial Russia after Alexander II, but certainly not during or before. Imperial Russia was pretty awesome. It wasn't perfect, but it was a damn slight better than the Soviet Empire.

No it wasn't, the USSR was a modern country with a 99% literacy rate, a reasonably high standard of living, and a high life-expectancy (once it got off the ground, of course).

The USSR was an expansive, imperialistic hellhole that made people disappear, worked them to death, made them stand in the snow for bread, threw them in labor camps, made everyone live like they were poor, inside crummy, poorly-built buildings with bad infrastructure, fed everyone bowls of propaganda everyday, invaded countries using ideology as a casus belli, initiated a Cold War which could've destroyed the whole world, and continuously tried to overthrow every government it didn't like.

It was by no means better than Imperial Russia. Maybe Imperial Russia wasn't the smartest, freest, or even the best, but to say the USSR was better is a bad joke.

[United Marxist Nations]

No it wasn't, the USSR was a modern country with a 99% literacy rate, a reasonably high standard of living, and a high life-expectancy (once it got off the ground, of course).

Let's ignore the tens of millions of people Stalian killed in his thirty year reign, right?

I'm NOT saying the Tsars did not commit genocide and the like, but Stalian killed more people in thirty years than the Romanovs did in three hundred.

More like 9-11 million, most historians agree that the 20 million number is greatly inflated. And the vast majority of people saw their lives improve. People lived longer, and had better lives.

[Ganos Lao]

No it wasn't, the USSR was a modern country with a 99% literacy rate, a reasonably high standard of living, and a high life-expectancy (once it got off the ground, of course).

The USSR was an expansive, imperialistic hellhole that made people disappear, worked them to death, made them stand in the snow for bread, threw them in labor camps, made everyone live like they were poor, inside crummy, poorly-built buildings with bad infrastructure, fed everyone bowls of propaganda everyday, invaded countries using ideology as a casus belli, initiated a Cold War which could've destroyed the whole world, and continuously tried to overthrow every government it didn't like.

It was by no means better than Imperial Russia. Maybe Imperial Russia wasn't the smartest, freest, or even the best, but to say the USSR was better is a bad joke.

Could you imagine Imperial Russia with the bomb? Fingers of God, they'd call 'em, striking down at the heathens who refuse the authority of the Tzar, representative of God and Protector of His True Church....or maybe they'd have been more liberalized over time, who knows?

[United Marxist Nations]

No it wasn't, the USSR was a modern country with a 99% literacy rate, a reasonably high standard of living, and a high life-expectancy (once it got off the ground, of course).

The USSR was an expansive, imperialistic hellhole that made people disappear, worked them to death, made them stand in the snow for bread, threw them in labor camps, made everyone live like they were poor, inside crummy, poorly-built buildings with bad infrastructure, fed everyone bowls of propaganda everyday, invaded countries using ideology as a casus belli, initiated a Cold War which could've destroyed the whole world, and continuously tried to overthrow every government it didn't like.

It was by no means better than Imperial Russia. Maybe Imperial Russia wasn't the smartest, freest, or even the best, but to say the USSR was better is a bad joke.

Huehuehue

In the period of rapid industrialization and mass collectivization preceding World War II, Soviet employment figures experienced exponential growth. 3.9 million jobs per annum were expected by 1923, but the number actually climbed to an astounding 6.4 million. By 1937, the number rose yet again, to about 7.9 million. Finally, in 1940 it reached 8.3 million. Between 1926 and 1930, the urban population increased by 30 million. Unemployment had been a problem in late Imperial Russia and even under the NEP, but it ceased being a major factor after the implementation of Stalin's massive industrialization program. The sharp mobilization of resources used in order to industrialize the heretofore agrarian society created a massive need for labor; unemployment virtually dropped to zero. Wage setting by Soviet planners also contributed to the sharp decrease in unemployment, which dropped in real terms by 50% from 1928 to 1940. With wages artificially depressed, the state could afford to employ far more workers than would be financially viable in a market economy. Several ambitious extraction projects were begun that endeavored to supply raw materials for both military hardware and consumer goods.

The Moscow and Gorky automobile plants produced automobiles for the public—despite few Soviet citizens affording to buy a car—and the expansion of steel production and other industrial materials made the manufacture of a greater number of cars possible. Car and truck production, for example, reached 200,000 in 1931.[1]

The Soviet leadership believed that industrial workers needed to be educated in order to be competitive and so embarked on a program contemporaneous with industrialization to greatly increase the number of schools and the general quality of education. In 1927, 7.9 million students attended 118,558 schools. By 1933, the number rose to 9.7 million students in 166,275 schools. In addition, 900 specialist departments and 566 institutions were built and fully operational by 1933. Literacy rates increased substantially as a result, especially in the Central Asian republics.[8]

The Soviet people also benefited from a type of social liberalization. Women were to be given the same education as men and, at least legally speaking, obtained the same rights as men in the workplace. Although in practice these goals were not reached, the efforts to achieve them and the statement of theoretical equality led to a general improvement in the socio-economic status of women. Stalinist development also contributed to advances in health care, which marked a massive improvement over the Imperial era. Stalin's policies granted the Soviet people access to free health care and education. Widespread immunization programs created the first generation free from the fear of typhus and cholera. The occurrences of these diseases dropped to record-low numbers and infant mortality rates were substantially reduced, resulting in the life expectancy for both men and women to increase by over 20 years by the mid-to-late 1950s.[9] Many of the more extreme social and political ideas that were fashionable in the 1920s such as anarchism, internationalism, and the belief that the nuclear family was a bourgeois concept, were abandoned[citation needed]. Schools began to teach a more nationalistic course with emphasis on Russian history and leaders, though Marxist underpinnings necessarily remained. Stalin also began to create a Lenin cult. During the 1930s, Soviet society assumed the basic form it would maintain until its collapse in 1991.

Urban women under Stalin were also the first generation of women able to give birth in a hospital with access to prenatal care. Education was another area in which there was improvement after economic development. The generation born during Stalin's rule was the first near-universally literate generation. Engineers were sent abroad to learn industrial technology, and hundreds of foreign engineers were brought to Russia on contract.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... n_(1927-53)#Changes_in_Soviet_society

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographi ... viet_Union

[Greater Beggnig]

The USSR was an expansive, imperialistic hellhole that made people disappear, worked them to death, made them stand in the snow for bread, threw them in labor camps, made everyone live like they were poor, inside crummy, poorly-built buildings with bad infrastructure, fed everyone bowls of propaganda everyday, invaded countries using ideology as a casus belli, initiated a Cold War which could've destroyed the whole world, and continuously tried to overthrow every government it didn't like.

It was by no means better than Imperial Russia. Maybe Imperial Russia wasn't the smartest, freest, or even the best, but to say the USSR was better is a bad joke.

Could you imagine Imperial Russia with the bomb? Fingers of God, they'd call 'em, striking down at the heathens who refuse the authority of the Tzar, representative of God and Protector of His True Church....or maybe they'd have been more liberalized over time, who knows?

That why we need the Provisional Government. Imperial Russia was doomed. The Tsars all grew up learning from history that reform gets you killed, so let's stick to Autocracy, Orthodoxy and Russophilia.

[Ganos Lao]

Could you imagine Imperial Russia with the bomb? Fingers of God, they'd call 'em, striking down at the heathens who refuse the authority of the Tzar, representative of God and Protector of His True Church....or maybe they'd have been more liberalized over time, who knows?

That why we need the Provisional Government. Imperial Russia was doomed. The Tsars all grew up learning from history that reform gets you killed, so let's stick to Autocracy, Orthodoxy and Russophilia.

Well, there was that one Tzar IIRC that tried something, but much like his counterpart in Qing China, his nascent voice was snuffed out.

"Reform? Whatcha talkin' bout, fool? Don't fix what ain't broken!"

[The Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine]

....what about the Green Army, Black Hundreds, Ukrainian Nationalists, Muslim Extremists, Black Army, Kronstadt Rebels and Sailors and the SR Rebellions?

[Greed and Death]

Where is the support the military, option ?

[Ganos Lao]

....what about the Green Army, Black Hundreds, Ukrainian Nationalists, Muslim Extremists, Black Army, Kronstadt Rebels and Sailors and the SR Rebellions?

We invited them to this panel, but they haven't arrived yet. I think they all got stuck on the Novorossiya Freeway.

Seriously, though, we should include them in the poll. The military too, as G&D mentioned.

[Dejanic]

....what about the Green Army, Black Hundreds, Ukrainian Nationalists, Muslim Extremists, Black Army, Kronstadt Rebels and Sailors and the SR Rebellions?

Comrade Trotsky has already dealt with the rebel scum.

Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Red Army.

[United Marxist Nations]

....what about the Green Army, Black Hundreds, Ukrainian Nationalists, Muslim Extremists, Black Army, Kronstadt Rebels and Sailors and the SR Rebellions?

We invited them to this panel, but they haven't arrived yet. I think they all got stuck on the Novorossiya Freeway.

Seriously, though, we should include them in the poll. The military too, as G&D mentioned.

Which part of it? The part that joined the Provisional Government, or the part that joined the Bolsheviks?

[The New Sea Territory]

....what about the Green Army, Black Hundreds, Ukrainian Nationalists, Muslim Extremists, Black Army, Kronstadt Rebels and Sailors and the SR Rebellions?

Trotsky has already dealt with the rebel scum.

Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Red Army.

...what? Most of those were still active until the 20s.