How would you *realistically* improve society?

[Vazdaria]

Think of it like this: Sam Walton made his fortune without actually producing anything. His "product" was a system for distribution of products already made. He was not a man born into significant wealth. He saw an opportunity in the market - he saw a potential for financial gain that would have immense potential economically. He developed a way to put as many products as possible on as many shelves as possible for as many consumers as was possible. He was an entrepreneur.

Without the potential for social mobility, he never would have earned enough money to finance the expanding empire that WalMart was to become. He would have been stuck with a few lonely stores.

How many fewer people would have benefited from the cheaper products his more efficient system created?

We're not speaking about a complete lack of social mobility though. We are talking about reduced or diminished social mobility.

[Benuty]

the elimination of religion

Grow up.

[Othelos]

Ban Atheism under international law.

please explain how that would help or be possible. How would you force people to believe in god(s)?

[Benuty]

Think of it like this: Sam Walton made his fortune without actually producing anything. His "product" was a system for distribution of products already made. He was not a man born into significant wealth. He saw an opportunity in the market - he saw a potential for financial gain that would have immense potential economically. He developed a way to put as many products as possible on as many shelves as possible for as many consumers as was possible. He was an entrepreneur.

Without the potential for social mobility, he never would have earned enough money to finance the expanding empire that WalMart was to become. He would have been stuck with a few lonely stores.

How many fewer people would have benefited from the cheaper products his more efficient system created?

We're not speaking about a complete lack of social mobility though. We are talking about reduced or diminished social liberty.

Which is frankly horrid.

[Vazdaria]

Ban Atheism under international law.

Not even I want to do this. And thats saying something.

[Distruzio]

Think of it like this: Sam Walton made his fortune without actually producing anything. His "product" was a system for distribution of products already made. He was not a man born into significant wealth. He saw an opportunity in the market - he saw a potential for financial gain that would have immense potential economically. He developed a way to put as many products as possible on as many shelves as possible for as many consumers as was possible. He was an entrepreneur.

Without the potential for social mobility, he never would have earned enough money to finance the expanding empire that WalMart was to become. He would have been stuck with a few lonely stores.

How many fewer people would have benefited from the cheaper products his more efficient system created?

We're not speaking about a complete lack of social mobility though. We are talking about reduced or diminished social liberty.

Fair enough. Disregard.

[Vazdaria]

We're not speaking about a complete lack of social mobility though. We are talking about reduced or diminished social liberty.

Which is frankly horrid.

BUT WHY BENUTY? WHYYYYY? D:

[The Liberated Territories]

Most people would agree with you, but have their own definitions and goals on what it means to be prosperous and healthy. The hermit is prosperous if he is able to catch one fish for dinner. The old man who was born in the 1930s is healthy if he's able to think, even if he voluntarily doesn't go to the doctor out of belief that maximizing his own money is superior to the risk of developing a stroke. You may disagree, but I don't believe it's possible to have a giant safety net (or desirable for that matter) without affecting a fair amount of people's idea of what it means to be prosperous and healthy, free, or whatever.

I am not advocating for a 'giant safety net'.

No? But you are advocating for taxation to serve the public good. You can't possibly assume what other people want.

[Benuty]

Ban Atheism under international law.

please explain how that would help or be possible. How would you force people to believe in god(s)?

See my post above, they are obviously irrational teenagers. On top of it Narnia worships the care bears so it kind of figures since they are made by a rampant bigot.

[Macedom]

the elimination of religion

Grow up.

Why?

[Othelos]

I am not advocating for a 'giant safety net'.

No? But you are advocating for taxation to serve the public good. You can't possibly assume what other people want.

Most people accept the legitimacy of the state, and the existence of the state requires taxation.

[Atlanticatia]

Think of it like this: Sam Walton made his fortune without actually producing anything. His "product" was a system for distribution of products already made. He was not a man born into significant wealth. He saw an opportunity in the market - he saw a potential for financial gain that would have immense potential economically. He developed a way to put as many products as possible on as many shelves as possible for as many consumers as was possible. He was an entrepreneur.

Without the potential for social mobility, he never would have earned enough money to finance the expanding empire that WalMart was to become. He would have been stuck with a few lonely stores.

How many fewer people would have benefited from the cheaper products his more efficient system created?

We're not speaking about a complete lack of social mobility though. We are talking about reduced or diminished social liberty.

How do we stay competitive, create jobs, generate wealth, etc with just "diminished" social mobility? And it's on a downwards trend. It's only going to get worse and worse.

We need to encourage healthy social mobility, to achieve the best possible outcome for society. (High economic growth, high average incomes, little social exclusion, full employment, advancement in science and the arts, etc). We can't settle for mediocrity when it's easy for us to do more.

[Inolena]

Gifts are wants and desires. Desires are to be earned. Needs are not. Needs are education, healthcare, and the law. Desires are entitlements and precious inheritances.

Both cause the social ill that is laziness and incompetence.

laziness isn't inherently bad. Neither is incompetence.

Yes. It is. I am a hypocrite for saying this, as I am a lazy person for the most part (procrastination). And I will come off as honestly as possible that I am not the most competent guy.

However, society is to be perfected by our very own hands. Such requires a meritocratic system that shuns laziness and incompetence, while disregarding the backgrounds of people so they may succeed to however high height they wish to achieve. That requires competence and diligence.

I despise entitled people. I despise those that do not need to work, yet receive money. I find capitalism abhorrent in general, as it supports self entitlement and breeds incompetence on the mass scale.

[The Liberated Territories]

No? But you are advocating for taxation to serve the public good. You can't possibly assume what other people want.

Most people accept the legitimacy of the state, and the existence of the state requires taxation.

So then why not allow the people who accept the legitimacy of the state to be taxed, and for those to not receive any of the benefits? Certainly it would be fairer for everyone.

[Benuty]

Which is frankly horrid.

BUT WHY BENUTY? WHYYYYY? D:

I shun class stratification as a tool of the state.

[Empire of Narnia]

Ban Atheism under international law.

please explain how that would help or be possible. How would you force people to believe in god(s)?

1: The U.N. would pass the law, of course it would help to get an American constitutional amendment first to the same effect.

2: With guns.

[Vazdaria]

laziness isn't inherently bad. Neither is incompetence.

Yes. It is. I am a hypocrite for saying this, as I am a lazy person for the most part (procrastination). And I will come off as honestly as possible that I am not the most competent guy.

However, society is to be perfected by our very own hands. Such requires a meritocratic system that shuns laziness and incompetence, while disregarding the backgrounds of people so they may succeed to however high height they wish to achieve. That requires competence and diligence.

I despise entitled people. I despise those that do not need to work, yet receive money. I find capitalism abhorrent in general, as it supports self entitlement and breeds incompetence on the mass scale.

You despise me then! D: and I thought we were friends!

Capitalism is poop.
Corporatism for the win!

[Lies and Ignorance]

I'd magically make socialist literature appear in strategic spots around America, causing it to be found, read and heard by just enough people to make the ideas of liberation spread to the majority of the populace, and take root as an unsquashable idea, in the back of people's heads no matter what. Positive societal changes would be inevitable.

[Vazdaria]

BUT WHY BENUTY? WHYYYYY? D:

I shun class stratification as a tool of the state.

Class stratification occurs even without the present of a coherent state though?

[The Liberated Territories]

please explain how that would help or be possible. How would you force people to believe in god(s)?

1: The U.N. would pass the law, of course it would help to get an American constitutional amendment first to the same effect.

2: With guns.

I sometimes wonder if you are not the greatest con artist ever on this forum, instead of believing this stuff.

[Macedom]

please explain how that would help or be possible. How would you force people to believe in god(s)?

1: The U.N. would pass the law, of course it would help to get an American constitutional amendment first to the same effect.

2: With guns.

or we could do something useful and ban religion under international law and use those same methods to enforce it

[The Liberated Territories]

I'd magically make socialist literature appear in strategic spots around America, causing it to be found, read and heard by just enough people to make the ideas of liberation spread to the majority of the populace, and take root as an unsquashable idea, in the back of people's heads no matter what. Positive societal changes would be inevitable.

People will read it and then proceed to throw it in the nearest trash bin.

[Inolena]

Yes. It is. I am a hypocrite for saying this, as I am a lazy person for the most part (procrastination). And I will come off as honestly as possible that I am not the most competent guy.

However, society is to be perfected by our very own hands. Such requires a meritocratic system that shuns laziness and incompetence, while disregarding the backgrounds of people so they may succeed to however high height they wish to achieve. That requires competence and diligence.

I despise entitled people. I despise those that do not need to work, yet receive money. I find capitalism abhorrent in general, as it supports self entitlement and breeds incompetence on the mass scale.

You despise me then! D: and I thought we were friends!

Capitalism is poop.
Corporatism for the win!

Corporatism is capitalism in decay or modified capitalism to increase entitlements.

Meritocracy is the only way the idea of institutional inequality can be removed.

And no. We cannot be friends, bub <3

[Othelos]

Most people accept the legitimacy of the state, and the existence of the state requires taxation.

So then why not allow the people who accept the legitimacy of the state to be taxed, and for those to not receive any of the benefits? Certainly it would be fairer for everyone.

How? They wouldn't be able to use roads, send their children to school, or have emergency services respond when needed.

[Vazdaria]

1: The U.N. would pass the law, of course it would help to get an American constitutional amendment first to the same effect.

2: With guns.

or we could do something useful and ban religion under international law and use those same methods to enforce it

You're going to be killing or jailing A LOT of people then.