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Does God Exist?

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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:02 am

Zamri1138 wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:I can find a lot of things on Youtube, but that doesn't mean that they're all true.
yes you right...but some of it are Real....

If the stuff about angels and ghosts were true, there'd by scientific studied based upon them. There are no such studies.

Isn't it strange how whenever scientists go to a "haunted" building, they find nothing, but a TV-crew and some "ghost hunters" go and there are spooky things everywhere?

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Zamri1138
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Postby Zamri1138 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:02 am

Conscentia wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
...is English your second language? I have seen no proof for the existence of angels, ghosts, jin(?), or satan. Prove the universe was created by god... And... the galaxy would keep expanding without limits...says who? Also, how would that be evidence of a god?

He refers to jinn (also spelled djinn).
thks....


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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:03 am

Conscentia wrote:
Zamri1138 wrote:yes you right...but some of it are Real....

If the stuff about angels and ghosts were true, there'd by scientific studied based upon them. There are no such studies.

Isn't it strange how whenever scientists go to a "haunted" building, they find nothing, but a TV-crew and some "ghost hunters" go and there are spooky things everywhere?


One is looking for evidence, the other is looking for ratings.
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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:03 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Conscentia wrote:If the stuff about angels and ghosts were true, there'd by scientific studied based upon them. There are no such studies.
Isn't it strange how whenever scientists go to a "haunted" building, they find nothing, but a TV-crew and some "ghost hunters" go and there are spooky things everywhere?

One is looking for evidence, the other is looking for ratings.

Indeed.

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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:03 am

Jute wrote:
Othelos wrote:Right, in the same sense that we can't prove that fairies and unicorns don't exist.

Not in the exact same sense, since fairies and unicorns were supposed to live on Earth. It's more likely that God/ a god might exist, since they aren't supposed to be on Earth, but somewhere in the universe or beyond. So there are more possibilities for such a divine being to exist and less arguments against it than for an Earth-roaming mythical creature, although admittedly both can't be proven or disproven.

No, there's not much of a difference. If it exists, we should be able to detect its matter, in the same way that we should be able to spot a fairy or a unicorn.
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:05 am

Othelos wrote:
Jute wrote:Not in the exact same sense, since fairies and unicorns were supposed to live on Earth. It's more likely that God/ a god might exist, since they aren't supposed to be on Earth, but somewhere in the universe or beyond. So there are more possibilities for such a divine being to exist and less arguments against it than for an Earth-roaming mythical creature, although admittedly both can't be proven or disproven.

No, there's not much of a difference. If it exists, we should be able to detect its matter, in the same way that we should be able to spot a fairy or a unicorn.

Also, in both cases, there have been people who claim to have not only seen or have direct evidence of their existence, but also claim to have a way to get YOU to see that evidence. And in both cases, they fail to provide sufficient evidence.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Jute
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Postby Jute » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:05 am

Mavorpen wrote:
Jute wrote:Are you arguing against tolerance and freedom of religion? If you don't like the word "respect", then maybe replace it with "accept" or "not have unnecessarily hostile feelings against it". People are different and have different opinions. I try to respect them, even if their opinions are very different from mine, as long as they're harmless as any other opinion.

There is a difference between respecting someone's right to hold an irrational and unsubstantiated belief and respecting said belief. Learn what that difference is and then you'll have an answer to your question.

Alright then, glad we managed to avoid a misunderstanding :) I don't think there's something wrong with holding an irrational belief as long as it's harmless, though. Rationality is a tool that can be used for great things, but humans are often pretty irrational by nature, and not always in a bad way.
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...The notion that science
and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
"A rejection of all philosophy is in itself philosophy."

Check out the Jutean language! Talk to me about anything. Avian air force flag (Source) Definition of atheism Is Religion Dangerous?

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:06 am

Jute wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:There is a difference between respecting someone's right to hold an irrational and unsubstantiated belief and respecting said belief. Learn what that difference is and then you'll have an answer to your question.

Alright then, glad we managed to avoid a misunderstanding :) I don't think there's something wrong with holding an irrational belief as long as it's harmless, though. Rationality is a tool that can be used for great things, but humans are often pretty irrational by nature, and not always in a bad way.

I have no desire to take arguments built on the naturalistic fallacy seriously, sorry.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:08 am

Jute wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:There is a difference between respecting someone's right to hold an irrational and unsubstantiated belief and respecting said belief. Learn what that difference is and then you'll have an answer to your question.

Alright then, glad we managed to avoid a misunderstanding :) I don't think there's something wrong with holding an irrational belief as long as it's harmless, though. Rationality is a tool that can be used for great things, but humans are often pretty irrational by nature, and not always in a bad way.

I personally don't care if people have religious beliefs, as long as they don't try to enforce it thought the law or alter school's curriculums.
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Zamri1138
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Postby Zamri1138 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:11 am

Conscentia wrote:
Zamri1138 wrote:yes you right...but some of it are Real....

If the stuff about angels and ghosts were true, there'd by scientific studied based upon them. There are no such studies.

Isn't it strange how whenever scientists go to a "haunted" building, they find nothing, but a TV-crew and some "ghost hunters" go and there are spooky things everywhere?
how about this:go to any haunted place and you stay there for a while and maybe you witness the "ghosts".about the angels...erm...maybe on youtube there is a real video witnessing the existence of angel.

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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:13 am

Zamri1138 wrote:
Conscentia wrote:If the stuff about angels and ghosts were true, there'd by scientific studied based upon them. There are no such studies.

Isn't it strange how whenever scientists go to a "haunted" building, they find nothing, but a TV-crew and some "ghost hunters" go and there are spooky things everywhere?
how about this:go to any haunted place and you stay there for a while and maybe you witness the "ghosts".about the angels...erm...maybe on youtube there is a real video witnessing the existence of angel.

Again, Youtube isn't a source of truth. There's a lot of BS videos claiming to be real.
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Jute
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Postby Jute » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:13 am

Mavorpen wrote:
Jute wrote:Alright then, glad we managed to avoid a misunderstanding :) I don't think there's something wrong with holding an irrational belief as long as it's harmless, though. Rationality is a tool that can be used for great things, but humans are often pretty irrational by nature, and not always in a bad way.

I have no desire to take arguments built on the naturalistic fallacy seriously, sorry.

Why is that a fallacious statement? It wasn't really judgmental, only a description of human nature, and only meant as a possible reason why humans tend to have irrational beliefs.
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...The notion that science
and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
"A rejection of all philosophy is in itself philosophy."

Check out the Jutean language! Talk to me about anything. Avian air force flag (Source) Definition of atheism Is Religion Dangerous?

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:14 am

Jute wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:I have no desire to take arguments built on the naturalistic fallacy seriously, sorry.

Why is that a fallacious statement? It wasn't really judgmental, only a description of human nature, and only meant as a possible reason why humans tend to have irrational beliefs.

Okay, so then it was just a useless statement.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Jute
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Postby Jute » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:16 am

Othelos wrote:
Jute wrote:Alright then, glad we managed to avoid a misunderstanding :) I don't think there's something wrong with holding an irrational belief as long as it's harmless, though. Rationality is a tool that can be used for great things, but humans are often pretty irrational by nature, and not always in a bad way.

I personally don't care if people have religious beliefs, as long as they don't try to enforce it thought the law or alter school's curriculums.

Yes, I think aside from religious education (which doesn't have to be limited to reading the bible, in Germany's high schools it also includes philosophy, Freud and other religions, for example, so it's more secular than American religious education might be) I think religion shouldn't interfere with a nornal education, and especially not with the natural sciences.
Mavorpen wrote:
Jute wrote:Why is that a fallacious statement? It wasn't really judgmental, only a description of human nature, and only meant as a possible reason why humans tend to have irrational beliefs.

Okay, so then it was just a useless statement.

Well, not useless, an attempt at explanation why humans might have irrational beliefs so often.
Last edited by Jute on Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...The notion that science
and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
"A rejection of all philosophy is in itself philosophy."

Check out the Jutean language! Talk to me about anything. Avian air force flag (Source) Definition of atheism Is Religion Dangerous?

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Distruzio
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Postby Distruzio » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:17 am

Othelos wrote:
Jute wrote:Alright then, glad we managed to avoid a misunderstanding :) I don't think there's something wrong with holding an irrational belief as long as it's harmless, though. Rationality is a tool that can be used for great things, but humans are often pretty irrational by nature, and not always in a bad way.

I personally don't care if people have religious beliefs, as long as they don't try to enforce it thought the law or alter school's curriculums.


Should we say the same thing about secularism being enforced by law or being used to justify alterations to school curricula?
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Sun Wukong
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Postby Sun Wukong » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:19 am

Zamri1138 wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Grammar isn't an advanced concept.
then what i need to do make you happy?

*raises an eyebrow*

We'll since you're offering, I can think of some things. You will need butter, jumper cables, and something to bite down on.
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Zitru
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Postby Zitru » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:21 am

This may be a bit of a belated, and then so probably useless reply, but in my opinion I think there is no right or wrong answer to whether God exists or not. If you believe in God, well good for you. If you don't believe in God, well good for you. I understand that others have their own opinions on the existence of God, which I do respect. I am a practicing Catholic, I go to church, but I am not a regular reader of the bible and tend to only read it out at church occasionally, and I do believe in God myself, and have done for 18 of my 19 living years since I was baptized back in 1996. However, I'm more than happy to accept there are those out there who doubt the existence of God, believe in him a little, believe in him completely, or don't believe in God at all.
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:21 am

Jute wrote:Well, not useless, an attempt at explanation why humans might have irrational beliefs so often.

Which, frankly, is irrelevant to anything I said. I don't respect irrational beliefs. It being explained by "human nature" doesn't change that one bit.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Postby Threlizdun » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:24 am

Distruzio wrote:
Othelos wrote:I personally don't care if people have religious beliefs, as long as they don't try to enforce it thought the law or alter school's curriculums.


Should we say the same thing about secularism being enforced by law or being used to justify alterations to school curricula?
No, as secularism offers a neutral position on the issue of religion. It is neither endorsed nor condemned by the law. Education must be based on a scientific understanding of the world in order to be objective and relatively free of bias, and it is impossible to do this while marrying it to a particular religious tradition.
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Zamri1138
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Postby Zamri1138 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:24 am

a years ago my father work as a security at a old factory and he work at night shift...from 8 pm to 6 am and also one of those nights he work he witness a ghost in a female body with a white dress and a long hair wearing perfumes.my father said what he saw was real...not a dream or something..

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Zamri1138
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Postby Zamri1138 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:26 am

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Zamri1138 wrote:how about this:go to any haunted place and you stay there for a while and maybe you witness the "ghosts".about the angels...erm...maybe on youtube there is a real video witnessing the existence of angel.

Again, Youtube isn't a source of truth. There's a lot of BS videos claiming to be real.
im sure some of the videos on youtube are real...

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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:27 am

Zamri1138 wrote:a years ago my father work as a security at a old factory and he work at night shift...from 8 pm to 6 am and also one of those nights he work he witness a ghost in a female body with a white dress and a long hair wearing perfumes.my father said what he saw was real...not a dream or something..

Sometimes when it's dark, I mistake some things for other things, as well.
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Zamri1138
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Postby Zamri1138 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:28 am

Sun Wukong wrote:
Zamri1138 wrote:then what i need to do make you happy?

*raises an eyebrow*

We'll since you're offering, I can think of some things. You will need butter, jumper cables, and something to bite down on.
lol...nice trolling Sun Wukong.

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Zamri1138
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Postby Zamri1138 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:33 am

Othelos wrote:
Zamri1138 wrote:a years ago my father work as a security at a old factory and he work at night shift...from 8 pm to 6 am and also one of those nights he work he witness a ghost in a female body with a white dress and a long hair wearing perfumes.my father said what he saw was real...not a dream or something..

Sometimes when it's dark, I mistake some things for other things, as well.
Can you do me favor? go to haunted places and you will know why so many people around the world believe the existence of ghosts.you never encountered a ghost before...that's why you dont believe it existence.

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