Anti-Incest Laws in Germany under review

[Infected Mushroom]

Well, what if it happened to be a relationship between a parent and their child? In principle, I would say "keep it consensual and we're cool", but what if the relationship in question were the product of said parent's "grooming", so to speak, aimed specifically at having their child become sexually attracted to them?

Considering that raising a child for the expressed purpose of them becoming a tool for sex would in itself be considered child abuse regardless of who is intended to have sex with them, I don't see how it would be any different with legal incest.

exactly

this is exactly right

[Nazis in Space]

The German age of consent is 14.
Unless they have a Romeo-and-Juliet clause stating that over-18s may only have sex with other over-18s.

There are such clauses, yes.

There are not.

The limit is 16, and that one is only prosecuted if the under-sixteen (But fourteen or older) year old or his/ her parents actually file a complaint, lest that's fine, too.

[Jumalariik]

Incest is terrible and an affront to humans, let's be honest, the world is better off without it.

[Great Nepal]

I fail to see an issue beyond poor understanding of genetics involved which caused it to be law in first place, there is only marginal increase in chance of deformed child in event of cousin relationship (perhaps similar if slightly higher figure for brother-sister one) and even that is odds we accept every single day when women over 40 has a child or where child is born into family with hereditary diseases. Bigger problem might be possibility of cohesion however I imagine existing laws can take care of that.

[Infected Mushroom]

Incest is terrible and an affront to humans, let's be honest, the world is better off without it.

not for the Jaime/Cersei Lannisters of the world.

For some people, their sibling could be their One True Love.

Those people face the same predicament and discrimination as gay marriage partners. The state shouldn't be making it worse by throwing them in prison because of their preferences.

[Liriena]

Well, what if it happened to be a relationship between a parent and their child? In principle, I would say "keep it consensual and we're cool", but what if the relationship in question were the product of said parent's "grooming", so to speak, aimed specifically at having their child become sexually attracted to them?

Well that would be a very bad relationship, but the problem isn't that the people in it are related, the problem is that it's abusive. The same can happen with teachers and students, or employers and employees, or what have you.

Well, what if it happened to be a relationship between a parent and their child? In principle, I would say "keep it consensual and we're cool", but what if the relationship in question were the product of said parent's "grooming", so to speak, aimed specifically at having their child become sexually attracted to them?

Considering that raising a child for the expressed purpose of them becoming a tool for sex would in itself be considered child abuse regardless of who is intended to have sex with them, I don't see how it would be any different with legal incest.

Agreed.

[Ifreann]

Incest is terrible and an affront to humans, let's be honest, the world is better off without it.

Incest is no such thing. It's weird, sure, but being into feet seems weird to me and you don't see me calling that an affront to humans.

[Liriena]

Incest is terrible and an affront to humans,

How so? And perhaps you should give us a definition of what you would define as "incest".

let's be honest, the world is better off without it.

*shrug*

[Liriena]

Incest is terrible and an affront to humans, let's be honest, the world is better off without it.

not for the Jaime/Cersei Lannisters of the world.

Or the Bill and Tom Kaulitz of the world.

[Rephesus]

It is a social taboo, so much like women driving in Saudi Arabia, or Homosexuality in multiple nations, the law can be abused to the whims of society, for things that frankly shouldn't be crimes.

The fact is, an incestual couple has a higher chance of having a genetically disabled or otherwise defected child, so I see the justification behind this. But honestly, I don't see why they don't just ban the conceiving of children between incestual couples and allow relationships, so long as no biological children are created.

[Laerod]

There are such clauses, yes.

There are not.

The limit is 16, and that one is only prosecuted if the under-sixteen (But fourteen or older) year old or his/ her parents actually file a complaint, lest that's fine, too.

Ergo, there "are such clauses" regarding the age of consent of 14 and certain cases of people under 18. There's a slew of other things depending on the situation that can make the act illegal, particularly between family members (Ausnutzung einer Zwangslage und so).

[Laerod]

Incest is terrible and an affront to humans, let's be honest, the world is better off without it.

Also tomatoes. Ban ALL the tomatoes.

[Liriena]

Finally, Tokio Hotel fans will get the twincest they wanted.

I'm not so sure how I feel about these laws. I am usually of the mind that, if it's harmless and between consenting adults, there's really no reason to ban it. But I suspect that incest in particular might be trickier.

But the laws aren't being changed...

I know that. I meant bans on incest in a general sense.

[Liriena]

Incest is terrible and an affront to humans, let's be honest, the world is better off without it.

Also tomatoes. Ban ALL the tomatoes.

Yeah, fuck tomatoes!

[Infected Mushroom]

It is a social taboo, so much like women driving in Saudi Arabia, or Homosexuality in multiple nations, the law can be abused to the whims of society, for things that frankly shouldn't be crimes.

The fact is, an incestual couple has a higher chance of having a genetically disabled or otherwise defected child, so I see the justification behind this. But honestly, I don't see why they don't just ban the conceiving of children between incestual couples and allow relationships, so long as no biological children are created.

Here in Canada, the law goes further.

It expressly forbids not only people from marrying their brother/sister, but also their half-brothers and half-sisters. According to Wikipedia, you can be punished for up to 14 years imprisonment for it.

[Laerod]

But the laws aren't being changed...

I know that. I meant bans on incest in a general sense.

Well, this thread kinda is about the suggestion of the Ethics Council to decriminalize incest between siblings in Germany.

[Great Nepal]

The fact is, an incestual couple has a higher chance of having a genetically disabled or otherwise defected child, so I see the justification behind this. But honestly, I don't see why they don't just ban the conceiving of children between incestual couples and allow relationships, so long as no biological children are created.

Increase in such chances (assuming there is no generations of interbreeding) are minimal, and we allow women over 40 or those with hereditary disease to breed every day; there shouldn't be separate standard for insestual relationship.

[Threlizdun]

Incest is terrible and an affront to humans, let's be honest, the world is better off without it.

Let's be honest, we all know someone who experimented with relatives, if we didn't ourself, and they haven't turned out any worse because of it.

[Rephesus]

The fact is, an incestual couple has a higher chance of having a genetically disabled or otherwise defected child, so I see the justification behind this. But honestly, I don't see why they don't just ban the conceiving of children between incestual couples and allow relationships, so long as no biological children are created.

Increase in such chances (assuming there is no generations of interbreeding) are minimal, and we allow women over 40 or those with hereditary disease to breed every day; there shouldn't be separate standard for insestual relationship.

Well then either all circumstances with such results should be banned, or none should be. Leave it to the state to decide, either way the actual relationship should be legal.

[Liriena]

I know that. I meant bans on incest in a general sense.

Well, this thread kinda is about the suggestion of the Ethics Council to decriminalize incest between siblings in Germany.

*shrug* When it comes to siblings, I really have nothing to say against it, at least nothing that could be considered a legitimate objection. Definitely not my cup of tea, and I'd probably feel uncomfortable around a pair of siblings in a romantic relationship, but I'm not going to go on Bryan Fischer's radio show to denounce it.

[Laerod]

Well, this thread kinda is about the suggestion of the Ethics Council to decriminalize incest between siblings in Germany.

*shrug* When it comes to siblings, I really have nothing to say against it, at least nothing that could be considered a legitimate objection. Definitely not my cup of tea, and I'd probably feel uncomfortable around a pair of siblings in a romantic relationship, but I'm not going to go on Bryan Fischer's radio show to denounce it.

I'm not terribly comfortable with it either. But I hate tomatoes too. My disgust for those isn't grounds for banning them though.

[Lydenburg]

Incest is terrible and an affront to humans, let's be honest, the world is better off without it.

not for the Jaime/Cersei Lannisters of the world.

For some people, their sibling could be their One True Love.

Those people face the same predicament and discrimination as gay marriage partners. The state shouldn't be making it worse by throwing them in prison because of their preferences.

And I suppose you believe that for pedophiles, an eight-year-old could be their One True Love.

[Gauthier]

Germany thinks about abolishing incest laws and people react like every single blood relative in the world are going to start fucking and churning out flipper babies.

[Laerod]

not for the Jaime/Cersei Lannisters of the world.

For some people, their sibling could be their One True Love.

Those people face the same predicament and discrimination as gay marriage partners. The state shouldn't be making it worse by throwing them in prison because of their preferences.

And I suppose you believe that for pedophiles, an eight-year-old could be their One True Love.

Why would you suppose that? Has IM said anything about that?

[Lydenburg]

And I suppose you believe that for pedophiles, an eight-year-old could be their One True Love.

Why would you suppose that? Has IM said anything about that?

That's what I'm reading here:

its alike in the sense that you can't help who you fall in love with

and the state should not decide to throw people in prison for particular preferences