Does God (Christian) exist (Try No.2)

[Neutraligon]

Sorry I missed the definition. No atheism is none of those. If I have never heard of something how do I believe in it, It isn't a claim to Knowledge since it isn't a belief, it makes no claim, so it is no belief, similarly it makes no claim, so it is not truth.

There's this very basic root of epistemology that assesses what truth and belief are, and how they compare and comprise that which we consider knowledge. We have a Venn diagram of Truth, ie all things that are true in the world and beyond, and of Belief, or Faith, ie all things that we believe without necessary truth. Where these two circles intersect, however, is Knowledge, ie things that we believe to be true (things we know). Graphically, it looks like this.

In The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, God is mentioned to have retorted to someone who inquires about His existence that "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing". God's existence is dependent on faith. If there is no faith in God, then God does not exist. If God answers the question honestly as to whether or not He exists, then we will know whether or not He exists, which no longer makes His existence something we believe in but something that we believe to be true, ie that which we know. If we know, then we have no belief (faith) in God, and as such it is impossible for Him to exist.

The reason we cannot ever know whether or not God exists, and why this debate will continue for ever, is because you cannot find proof of His existence. You cannot ever know whether or not He exists because that's what makes him God; that's what gives Him (possible) existence. God, really, lives in phase space. His existence is a possibility, and cannot ever, ever, be translated as a possibility of either 1 or 0 because that would no longer make Him a God (even if the result is in His advantage).

I find militant atheism just as ignorant as militant theism. I feel sceptic about both sides, really, and prefer to join the ranks of other agnostics when it comes to the God issue.

That's for the definitions. Re: your edit, Atheism is Belief by elimination. You're saying that if you don't know something then how can you believe in it? Well, the answer is, quite simply, that you haven't believed in it yet. Similarly, just because you don't know everything about every Truth since the dawn of time does not mean that every Truth about everything since the dawn of time is not Truth.

No it isn't since again atheism does not make a claim at all, it is again the simple concept of prove it. You defined Knowledge as where Truth and Belief meet. For something to be truth there must be a claim, for something to be belief there must be a claim. Atheism is not a claim, so how can it be either Truth or Belief. Atheism isn't even in the white space because it is not a proposition.

[Mavorpen]

Something that doesn't exist. Duh.

That would be circular, but first of all wrong. More correctly, if you're going for a purposely-circular argument, God would be that whose existence cannot be known.

Well then it doesn't exist.

[Immoren]

Something that doesn't exist. Duh.

I have to wonder what they think of mortals existing or not.

I guess it depends on deity and whether they are trying to measure mortals speed or location.

[Arkolon]

That would be circular, but first of all wrong. More correctly, if you're going for a purposely-circular argument, God would be that whose existence cannot be known.

Well then it doesn't exist.

His existence is a possibility. That's the point of Him being a God.

[Mavorpen]

Well then it doesn't exist.

His existence is a possibility. That's the point of Him being a God.

Then it doesn't exist.

[Geilinor]

Almost certainly not.

[Immoren]

Well then it doesn't exist.

His existence is a possibility. That's the point of Him being a God.

You surely mean a god.

[The united states of Saints]

His existence is a possibility. That's the point of Him being a God.

Then it doesn't exist.

Then again it does exist

[Arkolon]

That's for the definitions. Re: your edit, Atheism is Belief by elimination. You're saying that if you don't know something then how can you believe in it? Well, the answer is, quite simply, that you haven't believed in it yet. Similarly, just because you don't know everything about every Truth since the dawn of time does not mean that every Truth about everything since the dawn of time is not Truth.

No it isn't since again atheism does not make a claim at all, it is again the simple concept of prove it. You defined Knowledge as where Truth and Belief meet. For something to be truth there must be a claim, for something to be belief there must be a claim. Atheism is not a claim, so how can it be either Truth or Belief. Atheism isn't even in the white space because it is not a proposition.

"I don't think a God exists" isn't making a proposition?

Can concepts even ride horses? I mean, you keep trying to saddle Atheism on this great big high horse, but maybe you should bring it down for a little bit, no?

[Planita]

Then it doesn't exist.

Then again it does exist

believing him to be real doesn't actually make him physically real

[Geilinor]

Then again it does exist

believing him to be real doesn't actually make him physically real

What does believing him to be real accomplish?

[Neutraligon]

No it isn't since again atheism does not make a claim at all, it is again the simple concept of prove it. You defined Knowledge as where Truth and Belief meet. For something to be truth there must be a claim, for something to be belief there must be a claim. Atheism is not a claim, so how can it be either Truth or Belief. Atheism isn't even in the white space because it is not a proposition.

"I don't think a God exists" isn't making a proposition?

Can concepts even ride horses? I mean, you keep trying to saddle Atheism on this great big high horse, but maybe you should bring it down for a little bit, no?

That is not all atheism covers, atheism covers I have no evidence, I do not know what a god is, I cannot know what a god is, there is do definition of god therefore I cannot say a god exists, etc. So no atheism is not a proposition, it is everything in the universe that is not a theist. and it makes no claims. A rock is an atheist that is incapable of Belief, meaning it is not Knowledge. That leaves three possibilities, that it is Truth, that it is none of those but it is a proposition, or that it is not even a proposition. Atheism is not Truth because atheism makes not claim, leaving only that it is a Proposition, or that it is not proposition. However again atheism does not make a claim. It is saying "prove it", which is not a claim at all, simply someone waiting for information, meaning it is not a proposition, that only leaves one thing left.

[Arkolon]

His existence is a possibility. That's the point of Him being a God.

Then it doesn't exist.

If there is an x chance that God exists and a (1 - x) chance that God does not exist, then God exists in part, but his real existence (where probability is either 1 or 0) cannot be known, which doesn't say that he doesn't exist.

[Mavorpen]

Then it doesn't exist.

If there is an x chance that God exists and a (1 - x) chance that God does not exist, then God exists in part, but his real existence (where probability is either 1 or 0) cannot be known, which doesn't say that he doesn't exist.

Cool, so God doesn't exist. Thank you for furthering my confidence in living with this conclusion drawn.

[Lingang]

Well, maybe I stated that wrong. I see God in my life. Prayers of mine have been answered. As batshit insane it may sound to you, God has been helping me in my life. So that is the foundation of my faith. You don't believe for no damn actual reason, that IS ludicrous.

Plus lets say if there really is a God that loves us why wouldn't I have faith he exists?

.....because you choose not too?....

[Neutraligon]

Well, maybe I stated that wrong. I see God in my life. Prayers of mine have been answered. As batshit insane it may sound to you, God has been helping me in my life. So that is the foundation of my faith. You don't believe for no damn actual reason, that IS ludicrous.

Plus lets say if there really is a God that loves us why wouldn't I have faith he exists?

because there is no evidence such a god exists.

[Geilinor]

Then it doesn't exist.

If there is an x chance that God exists and a (1 - x) chance that God does not exist, then God exists in part, but his real existence (where probability is either 1 or 0) cannot be known, which doesn't say that he doesn't exist.

He can't exist in part. If x is less than 0.5, he likely doesn't exist.

[Arkolon]

If there is an x chance that God exists and a (1 - x) chance that God does not exist, then God exists in part, but his real existence (where probability is either 1 or 0) cannot be known, which doesn't say that he doesn't exist.

Cool, so God doesn't exist. Thank you for furthering my confidence in living with this conclusion drawn.

In real space, the cat is either dead or alive, and, where you got this from is beyond me, this means that the cat does not exist at all? You can make an objective truth from phase space? You're either really bad at the whole argument thing, or you can foresee the future with 100% accuracy.

In real space, God either is or isn't. In phase space, God is and isn't.

[Occupied Deutschland]

"I don't think a God exists" isn't making a proposition?

Can concepts even ride horses? I mean, you keep trying to saddle Atheism on this great big high horse, but maybe you should bring it down for a little bit, no?

That is not all atheism covers, atheism covers I have no evidence (1), I do not know what a god is (2), I cannot know what a god is (3), there is do definition of god therefore I cannot say a god exists (4), etc. So no atheism is not a proposition, it is everything in the universe that is not a theist.

1) Agnosticism, not atheism.
2) Also agnosticism.
3) Also, hilariously, agnosticism.
4) Also, outstandingly hilariously, agnosticism.

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

I just find it bizarre that you can simply have faith that the God in question exists. I mean, you could have faith in absolutely anything existing, hell you could even create your own ludicrous God, like the God of Microwave meals who upon your death sends you to a magical land filled with cheese toasties. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that one could have faith in something based upon the writings of a madman over a thousand years ago.. (Well, collection of madmen).

Well, maybe I stated that wrong. I see God in my life. Prayers of mine have been answered. As batshit insane it may sound to you, God has been helping me in my life. So that is the foundation of my faith. You don't believe for no damn actual reason, that IS ludicrous.

So, because by chance the thing you hoped would happen, happened - you believe in a Deity? Chance =/= God answering prayers. The fact that he hasn't given you all of your desires, shows that either 1) He's a lazy God (He can't be bothered to help you). 2) He's a bipolar God (One minute he's generous, the next he has a 'lol fuk of m8' moment). OR 3) There is no God and that it was by chance. I'm from a religious family, a huge number of my family members are Protestant and I'm friends with many religious people, but to me - the belief is utterly unfounded and illogical.

Not believing in something because there's no reason to believe it, is in itself a reason not to believe in it. So it's hardly for 'no damn actual reason'. The reason is that there is no evidence to suggest such things exist and another reason is, the book which the belief is based upon is so horribly flawed that it's unbelievable.

[The Prophet]

There are no gods! Only the Goddess Eris! All religions are as true as they are false, if your confused consult your pineal gland!

I found this more amusing than I should have.

Tis the truthest post yet! Everyone seems to be over looking that fact God is a women, and her name is Eris.

*takes up a dramatic voice and pose*

In the beginning there was VOID, who had two daughters; one (the smaller) was that of BEING, named ERIS, and one (the larger) was of NON-BEING, named ANERIS. (To this day, the fundamental truth that Aneris is the larger is apparent to all who compare the great number of things that do not exist with the comparatively small number of things that do exist.)

Eris had been born pregnant, and after 55 years (Goddesses have an unusually long gestation period-- longer even than elephants), Her pregnancy bore the fruits of many things. These things were composed of the Five Basic Elements, SWEET, BOOM, PUNGENT, PRICKLE, and ORANGE.

[Immoren]

That is not all atheism covers, atheism covers I have no evidence (1), I do not know what a god is (2), I cannot know what a god is (3), there is do definition of god therefore I cannot say a god exists (4), etc. So no atheism is not a proposition, it is everything in the universe that is not a theist.

1) Agnosticism, not atheism.
2) Also agnosticism.
3) Also, hilariously, agnosticism.
4) Also, outstandingly hilariously, agnosticism.

Aaand?

[Mavorpen]

In real space, the cat is either dead or alive, and, where you got this from is beyond me, this means that the cat does not exist at all?

Well yes, the cat doesn't physically exist. That's kind of the whole point, you know.

You can make an objective truth from phase space? You're either really bad at the whole argument thing, or you can foresee the future with 100% accuracy.

Neither.

In real space, God either is or isn't. In phase space, God is and isn't.

Cool, so God doesn't exist and I can continue living with this conclusion drawn.

[Rifty]

<snip>

Woah mate we both are the Prophet...Myself by title and you by name. Awwwwe yee

[Arkolon]

If there is an x chance that God exists and a (1 - x) chance that God does not exist, then God exists in part, but his real existence (where probability is either 1 or 0) cannot be known, which doesn't say that he doesn't exist.

He can't exist in part. If x is less than 0.5, he likely doesn't exist.

Coins are slightly heavier on one side than they are on the other, giving some sides a 0.51 chance of falling on that side and other sides a 0.49 chance. One of the sides is under 0.5. According to Geilinor, this means that it is likely that the coin will always and forever land on one side. After all, 0.5 is the point at which the heap of sand becomes a non-heap, right?

Are you attempting to break a record for fallacies used or something?