Does God (Christian) exist (Try No.2)

[Mavorpen]

Funnily enough, it proves atheism as an equal to religion, as it is grounded in Belief and not in Truth or Knowledge.

Not really. Atheism is not god absolutely does not exist, atheism is simply not theism. Meaning anyone who has never heard of god is an atheist. Yet those people do not base that on any belief system, they simply have no idea of the concept.

Oh thank Zeus, I almost tortured myself replying to that nonsense.

[Benuty]

Not really. Atheism is not god absolutely does not exist, atheism is simply not theism. Meaning anyone who has never heard of god is an atheist. Yet those people do not base that on any belief system, they simply have no idea of the concept.

Oh thank Zeus, I almost tortured myself replying to that nonsense.

What no Hera?
.

[Distruzionopolis]

Consider wiki.

Until the Protestant Reformation, the Roman Catholic Church had never officially drawn the boundaries of the biblical canon. Doing so had not been considered necessary because the authority of the Scriptures was not considered to be much higher than that of Sacred Tradition, papal bulls, and ecumenical councils. Rejecting these, Luther and other reformers focused on the Protestant doctrine of the Five solas.

It was not until the Protestant Reformers began to insist upon the supreme authority of Scripture alone (the doctrine of sola scriptura) that it became necessary to establish a definitive canon which would include a decision on the 'disputed books'.

Martin Luther[edit]
Main article: Luther's canon
Martin Luther was troubled by four books, the Antilegomena: Jude, James, Hebrews, and Revelation; and though he placed them in a secondary position relative to the rest, he did not exclude them. He did propose removing them from the canon,[101][102] echoing the consensus of several Catholics, also labeled Christian Humanists — such as Cardinal Ximenez, Cardinal Cajetan, and Erasmus — and partially because they were perceived to go against certain Protestant doctrines such as sola gratia and sola fide, but this was not generally accepted among his followers. However, these books are ordered last in the German-language Luther Bible to this day.[103][104]

Luther did remove the deuterocanonical books from the Old Testament of his translation of the Bible, placing them in the "Apocrypha, that are books which are not considered equal to the Holy Scriptures, but are useful and good to read".[105] Luther also struggled with the Book of Esther in the Old Testament, so did the rabbis at various times. To this writing he applied the test: "Does it urge Christ? Yes, because it tells the story of the survival of the people from whom Christ came."

Martin Luther nor the Protestans were not the first to reject the accuracy of the Apocrypha. Several Early Christian figures rejected the Apocrypha, Jerome who translated the Latin Vulgate rejected it because he believed the Jews established the proper canon. Most of the Church Fathers Origen, Cyril, and Athanaisus also rejected the Apocrypha and many just used it for devotional.

In fact, the Catholic Church only officially declared the Apocrypha a part of the Canon on the Council of Trent held between 1545 and 1563 as a reaction to the Protestant Reformation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Trent#Canons_and_decrees:

The doctrinal acts are as follows: after reaffirming the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed (third session), the decree was passed (fourth session) confirming that the deuterocanonical books were on a par with the other books of the canon (against Luther's placement of these books in the Apocrypha of his edition) and coordinating church tradition with the Scriptures as a rule of faith. The Vulgate translation was affirmed to be authoritative for the text of Scripture.

That doesn't dispute my argument.

[Arkolon]

Funnily enough, it proves atheism as an equal to religion, as it is grounded in Belief and not in Truth or Knowledge.

Not really. Atheism is not god absolutely does not exist, atheism is simply not theism. Meaning anyone who has never heard of god is an atheist. Yet those people do not base that on any belief system, they simply have no idea of the concept.

Atheism is not Truth, and neither is it Knowledge, QED from what you literally just said. If there is Belief that there is no God, it is still Belief, and is not epistemological Truth or Knowledge.

[Neutraligon]

Oh thank Zeus, I almost tortured myself replying to that nonsense.

What no Hera?
.

What why not thank Athena?

[Mavorpen]

Oh thank Zeus, I almost tortured myself replying to that nonsense.

What no Hera?
.

She's the goddess of marriage and childbirth, two things I have no interest in.

Now Eris, that's a goddess I can get behind. *nods*

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

What no Hera?
.

She's the goddess of marriage and childbirth, two things I have no interest in.

Now Eris, that's a goddess I can get behind. *nods*

Seems Eris is very popular.

[Mavorpen]

She's the goddess of marriage and childbirth, two things I have no interest in.

Now Eris, that's a goddess I can get behind. *nods*

Seems Eris is very popular.

Damn bandwagoners.

[Benuty]

She's the goddess of marriage and childbirth, two things I have no interest in.

Now Eris, that's a goddess I can get behind. *nods*

Seems Eris is very popular.

Because her antithesis deity is boring.

[Neutraligon]

Not really. Atheism is not god absolutely does not exist, atheism is simply not theism. Meaning anyone who has never heard of god is an atheist. Yet those people do not base that on any belief system, they simply have no idea of the concept.

Atheism is not Truth, and neither is it Knowledge, QED from what you literally just said. If there is Belief that there is no God, it is still Belief, and is not epistemological Truth or Knowledge.

Atheism does not claim to be "Truth" or "Knowledge", again atheism is simply not theism. You clearly did not understood what I wrote, atheism covers more then an absolute belief that god does not exist. Atheism covers those who lack the belief because they have never even heard of god, those who see no proof of god, those who are too young to understand what a god is, those who are still waiting for a definition of god, etc. None of those are based on a belief.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Seems Eris is very popular.

Damn bandwagoners.

Mav, she's a babe. Can't blame you.

[Immoren]

Seems Eris is very popular.

Damn bandwagoners.

I waz in wagon before it was band. *nods*

[Benuty]

Damn bandwagoners.

I waz in wagon before it was band. *nods*

I was in the wagon before the wagon.

[The united states of Saints]

Funnily enough, it proves atheism as an equal to religion, as it is grounded in Belief and not in Truth or Knowledge.

Not really. Atheism is not god absolutely does not exist, atheism is simply not theism. Meaning anyone who has never heard of god is an atheist. Yet those people do not base that on any belief system, they simply have no idea of the concept.

Not necessarily, people who haven't head of God or any God can't be categorized as Atheist. Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of godly deities. How can they reject what they haven't heard? When the person is introduced to the concept of God he/she can decide for themselves whether God exists or not based on what is presented to them including evidence.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I waz in wagon before it was band. *nods*

I was in the wagon before the wagon.

Antediluvian show-off. ;3

[Lingang]

Yes the Christian God exists.

Which one?

The Gnostic God.

The Deist God.

The Demiurge.

The Monad.

The Theist God.

The Triune God.

The Unitarian God.

The Unitarian Universalist God.

or the Dualist God.

Pick your choice.

The Truine God. Though I'm leaning towards Unitarian now.

[Immoren]

I waz in wagon before it was band. *nods*

I was in the wagon before the wagon.

Hah! Oldtimer!

[Mavorpen]

Damn bandwagoners.

Mav, she's a babe. Can't blame you.

I've been in love since 2002.

Okay, that's enough of that, as much as I would love to go on about my crush.

[Mavorpen]

Not really. Atheism is not god absolutely does not exist, atheism is simply not theism. Meaning anyone who has never heard of god is an atheist. Yet those people do not base that on any belief system, they simply have no idea of the concept.

Not necessarily, people who haven't head of God or any God can't be categorized as Atheist. Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of godly deities. How can they reject what they haven't heard? When the person is introduced to the concept of God he/she can decide for themselves whether God exists or not based on what is presented to them including evidence.

If you're going to use one definition from the Wikipedia page, include the whole thing.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[9][10]

So no, in the widest sense, atheism doesn't require an active rejection.

[Neutraligon]

Not really. Atheism is not god absolutely does not exist, atheism is simply not theism. Meaning anyone who has never heard of god is an atheist. Yet those people do not base that on any belief system, they simply have no idea of the concept.

Not necessarily, people who haven't head of God or any God can't be categorized as Atheist. Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of godly deities. How can they reject what they haven't heard? When the person is introduced to the concept of God he/she can decide for themselves whether God exists or not based on what is presented to them including evidence.

No it isn't it's in the word it self a means not. so atheism simply mean not a theist. That is the term accepted by the atheistic community. If you cannot accept that term find some other term to use because most atheists fall into the category of a not ever having heard of god, lacking belief due to lack of evidence, not understanding the concept of god, etc. Most atheists are not gnostic atheists. You do not define how atheists think of themselves, they define it for themselves.

[The united states of Saints]

Not necessarily, people who haven't head of God or any God can't be categorized as Atheist. Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of godly deities. How can they reject what they haven't heard? When the person is introduced to the concept of God he/she can decide for themselves whether God exists or not based on what is presented to them including evidence.

If you're going to use one definition from the Wikipedia page, include the whole thing.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[9][10]

So no, in the widest sense, atheism doesn't require an active rejection.

Sorry I'll try to do that next time.

[The united states of Saints]

Not necessarily, people who haven't head of God or any God can't be categorized as Atheist. Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of godly deities. How can they reject what they haven't heard? When the person is introduced to the concept of God he/she can decide for themselves whether God exists or not based on what is presented to them including evidence.

No it isn't it's in the word it self a means not. so atheism simply mean not a theist. That is the term accepted by the atheistic community. If you cannot accept that term find some other term to use because most atheists fall into the category of a not ever having heard of god, lacking belief due to lack of evidence, not understanding the concept of god, etc. Most atheists are not gnostic atheists. You do not define how atheists think of themselves, they define it for themselves.

Oh ok I misunderstood thanks for clearing that up.

[Benuty]

I was in the wagon before the wagon.

Antediluvian show-off. ;3

The flood was merely a showoff between the Sumerian deities, and the angelic hierarchy mad that Yahweh left Heaven. Lets just say it was quite costly to remove evidence of the flood even still we haven't got rid of it all.

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

Not really. Atheism is not god absolutely does not exist, atheism is simply not theism. Meaning anyone who has never heard of god is an atheist. Yet those people do not base that on any belief system, they simply have no idea of the concept.

Not necessarily, people who haven't head of God or any God can't be categorized as Atheist. Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of godly deities. How can they reject what they haven't heard? When the person is introduced to the concept of God he/she can decide for themselves whether God exists or not based on what is presented to them including evidence.

NOUN

[MASS NOUN]
Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Origin

late 16th century: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god'.

Nope.jpg.

Source: Oxford Dictionary. Simply by not believing in a God (if you don't know of the concept, you can't hope to believe it) you are considered an Atheist.

[Arkolon]

Atheism is not Truth, and neither is it Knowledge, QED from what you literally just said. If there is Belief that there is no God, it is still Belief, and is not epistemological Truth or Knowledge.

Atheism does not claim to be "Truth" or "Knowledge"

Notice how the two words are purposely capitalised, as to suggest that, oh I don't know, they cover a wider range than what their noncapitalised rendition would suggest? There are two epistemological grounds: Truth and Belief. What you know, knowledge, is where Truth and Belief intersect. Truth is that which is True independent of Belief, and Belief is that which is believed independent of Truth. Knowledge is what you believe to be true. Atheism is either Truth, Belief, or both (knowledge). You just said to me that Atheism does not claim to be Truth (ie that which is always true), and is not Knowledge (that which you or I believe to be true), which makes it, by elimination, Belief. Religion, and the existence of God more specifically, are also Belief. That is my point. It's not even contestable, I'm sorry to tell you this. You needn't be upset about it. It's not an insult, nor is it demeaning or derogatory towards Atheism.

again atheism is simply not theism

I'm not a theist, and neither am I an atheist, so this fails the first test.

You clearly did not understood what I wrote

Oh the irony.

atheism covers more then an absolute belief that god does not exist.

Ah, so it is Knowledge? Then why don't I believe it to be true?

Atheism covers those who lack the belief because they have never even heard of god

Something that is not Truth and that I do not Know is Belief, end of. God isn't Truth (His existence is dependent on Belief, which is what makes Him a God), and therefore cannot be Knowledge seeing as K = T + B.

those who see no proof of god

Did you even read my post? The fact that God is dependent on Belief, and that proof eliminates Belief and converts it into Truth (one possibility in phase space converted into either a 1 or 0 in real space) means that it is impossible to prove God, just as it is impossible to disprove God.

those who are too young to understand what a god is, those who are still waiting for a definition of god, etc. None of those are based on a belief.

They are, however, not Truth, and therefore neither are they Knowledge, either.