Does God (Christian) exist (Try No.2)

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Yes, and I know this for a fact. I have seen and felt the power of God.

Really?

Because I felt the power and might of the Thunder God Thor, my cheeks are still bruised from that ass whooping.

[Mavorpen]

Sorry, typo. You claimed that the null hypothesis meant that the default was knowledge. That is obviously incorrect, as knowledge is used in the creation of the hypothesis.

No, knowledge is used in every facet of the path, including the default.

The null hypothesis doesn't really have anything to do with the post to which you were responding.

Again, only if you aren't reading.

The default is NOT knowledge. Until you gain knowledge, you do not have it.

And since you have knowledge before forming the hypothesis, you're only supporting my position.

[Neutraligon]

so does it exist? I used the spelling deliberately.

Is that a fish?

No idea, does it exist?

[WestRedMaple]

Why don't you ask something with any basis in reality?

After you.

Just did, now it's your turn.

[Mavorpen]

And it hasn't been formed...because you say so. Got it. Brilliant argument.

Ah, another strawman I see.

Can you find even one hypothesis existing before anyone formed it? I didn't think so

Sure, right when you quote me saying hypotheses exist before they are formed.

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

Picked this image up in a previous thread - I believe it was Dutch Coolness who made it, but I can't be sure.

Anyways, I personally hold no believe in any deity, as there's no evidence to suggest that one does or could exist.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Is that a fish?

No idea, does it exist?

No idea. All I got was a hit for a Chinese Anowana book.

[Immoren]

Arowana

[The united states of Saints]

Does anyone think anowana exists?

Who's that?

[WestRedMaple]

No, you're still just fumbling around trying to explain why you think the null hypothesis means that we somehow magically start with knowledge before gaining any knowledge.

No, we don't magically start with knowledge. We start with knowledge as a consequence of being, well, alive.

And I'm aware you're not that knowledgeable of science, but living isn't magical.

So you admit I'm right, but have to throw in a baseless insult about me.

[Carbon based lifeforms]

google tried to correct it into arowana.

so does it exist? I used the spelling deliberately.

Google gives some 30000 results for 'anowana', which would suggest that it does, but then again, Google gives more than a billion results for God, and we know what his status is...

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Arowana

Well, the arowana seems to be real.

[Mavorpen]

No, we don't magically start with knowledge. We start with knowledge as a consequence of being, well, alive.

And I'm aware you're not that knowledgeable of science, but living isn't magical.

So you admit I'm right wrong, but have to through in an baseless insult observation about me.

Fixed that for you. I'm not sure if that's another one of your typos or you just not reading again.

[Neutraligon]

No idea, does it exist?

No idea. All I got was a hit for a Chinese Anowana book.

The same holds true for a god, until we define it we can't know what is meant by god. That being said, until we define it we can't claim it actually exists, thus a general does god exist question like what we have been debating over for the last couple of pages makes no sense. So right now we cannot claim it exists at all.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

No idea. All I got was a hit for a Chinese Anowana book.

The same holds true for a god, until we define it we can't know what is meant by god. That being said, until we define it we can't claim it actually exists, thus a general does god exist question like what we have been debating over for the last couple of pages makes no sense. So right now we cannot claim it exists at all.

As I said here:

I was mostly under the impression that to say something exists we need evidence of it first. Mere belief in is not evidence. It's just belief.

[Neutraligon]

The same holds true for a god, until we define it we can't know what is meant by god. That being said, until we define it we can't claim it actually exists, thus a general does god exist question like what we have been debating over for the last couple of pages makes no sense. So right now we cannot claim it exists at all.

As I said here:

I was mostly under the impression that to say something exists we need evidence of it first. Mere belief in is not evidence. It's just belief.

Yep. I was trying to ask the question that is of something less controversial. In this case you don't even know what anowana is, so how can you believe it exists. The only other option other than belief is lack of said belief.

[The united states of Saints]

As I said here:

Yep. I was trying to ask the question that is of something less controversial. In this case you don't even know what anowana is, so how can you believe it exists. The only other option other than belief is lack of said belief.

Disbelief

[Neutraligon]

Yep. I was trying to ask the question that is of something less controversial. In this case you don't even know what anowana is, so how can you believe it exists. The only other option other than belief is lack of said belief.

Disbelief

Not necessarily, I lack belief in anowana because I do not know what it is. Similarly I cannot claim it absolutely does not exist because I do not know what it is. Once we define what anowana is, we can begin to determine whether it is capable of existing based on those definitions. Once we have determined if it is capable of existing, we can then determine if it actually exists in reality based on evidence. However until all these things have happened, we can never claim it actually exists.

For instance, if I said the definition of an anowana is a triangle with 4 sides, then clearly an anowana is not even capable of existing due to the contradiction in the definitions (a triangle is defined as a shape with three sides). We do not even need to go to the next step of trying to find it in reality since it is incapable of existing.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

As I said here:

Yep. I was trying to ask the question that is of something less controversial. In this case you don't even know what anowana is, so how can you believe it exists. The only other option other than belief is lack of said belief.

Suggestion, maybe? Because how else can someone believe in a being they have no evidence of for its existence?

[Arkolon]

There's this very basic root of epistemology that assesses what truth and belief are, and how they compare and comprise that which we consider knowledge. We have a Venn diagram of Truth, ie all things that are true in the world and beyond, and of Belief, or Faith, ie all things that we believe without necessary truth. Where these two circles intersect, however, is Knowledge, ie things that we believe to be true (things we know). Graphically, it looks like this.

In The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, God is mentioned to have retorted to someone who inquires about His existence that "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing". God's existence is dependent on faith. If there is no faith in God, then God does not exist. If God answers the question honestly as to whether or not He exists, then we will know whether or not He exists, which no longer makes His existence something we believe in but something that we believe to be true, ie that which we know. If we know, then we have no belief (faith) in God, and as such it is impossible for Him to exist.

The reason we cannot ever know whether or not God exists, and why this debate will continue for ever, is because you cannot find proof of His existence. You cannot ever know whether or not He exists because that's what makes him God; that's what gives Him (possible) existence. God, really, lives in phase space. His existence is a possibility, and cannot ever, ever, be translated as a possibility of either 1 or 0 because that would no longer make Him a God (even if the result is in His advantage).

I find militant atheism just as ignorant as militant theism. I feel sceptic about both sides, really, and prefer to join the ranks of other agnostics when it comes to the God issue.

This is acceptable to me. Quite acceptable. Even as a theist.

Funnily enough, it proves atheism as an equal to religion, as it is grounded in Belief and not in Truth or Knowledge.

[Lingang]

Yes the Christian God exists.

[The united states of Saints]

Yes the Christian God exists.

Hooray!

[Neutraligon]

This is acceptable to me. Quite acceptable. Even as a theist.

Funnily enough, it proves atheism as an equal to religion, as it is grounded in Belief and not in Truth or Knowledge.

Not really. Atheism is not god absolutely does not exist, atheism is simply not theism. Meaning anyone who has never heard of god is an atheist. Yet those people do not base that on any belief system, they simply have no idea of the concept.

[Benuty]

Yes the Christian God exists.

Which one?

The Gnostic God.

The Deist God.

The Demiurge.

The Monad.

The Theist God.

The Triune God.

The Unitarian God.

The Unitarian Universalist God.

or the Dualist God.

Pick your choice.

[Neutraligon]

Yes the Christian God exists.

Prove it. First which Christian god, there are many different ways of viewing that god. I will discuss based on this answer.