Does God (Christian) exist (Try No.2)

[Geilinor]

Okay, so the existence of God is ultimately unknowable. Do you believe in a God?
If yes, then you're theist.
If no, you're atheist.

It depends on how close the gun is to my head.

"Agnostic atheist" is what they're calling it, apparently.

So you can't be bothered to pick a position? You could just say the subject of God doesn't concern you and we'd be over this.

[Mavorpen]

It depends on how close the gun is to my head.

"Agnostic atheist" is what they're calling it, apparently.

So you can't be bothered to pick a position? You could just say the subject of God doesn't concern you and we'd be over this.

But he has to waste our time somehow.

[WestRedMaple]

Yes, supporting your position now that you finally admitted you disagree with my position.

Fixed.

Lack of knowledge is the default.

If you're dead, then sure.

Nobody has any knowledge until they have acquired it

That would be when you're born. So I mean, if you're including unborn humans in that, I guess you're technically right.

By all means, share any example you like of already having knowledge before you acquire it.

Of course, we both know you cannot do it

[Arkolon]

I went through the solipsism-nihilism phase a good ten years ago. If you want to start down that road and order Thus Spake Zarathusra over Amazon, be my guest, but I'm telling you now that it's a waste of time.

My point is that all things are probabilities. If something has a sufficiently high probability, then it makes sense to act as if it is true. If it has a sufficiently low probability, then it makes sense to act as if it's false.

This is assuming that even the laws of physics and science as a whole is just one big fat probability, close to social constructs, and is not objectively true (which is wrong). 1 + 1 will always be 2. There is no probability that it will be any other number. Reading into Laplace's demon may be of use here, too.

[The United Zones of the West]

I personally believe there is no evidence for the existence of any omnipotent being. The bible actively contradicts science, and declares that everything in it is true. As soon as one single point if proven untrue, the rest of the pile collapses. Religion stays still, and science moves, encircling and flanking it. Of course, some diehard fanatics will always rant on about 'you shall burn in hell for not believing', and there are some who will actively hunt down anything that goes against their beliefs. Science has given us advancement, but what has Christianity given us? War? Death? Ignorance? The bible is supposed to speak morality, but instead, it encourages crime, murder and opposition to civil rights. Religion to me, is a tool of brainwashing. If God was real, what kind of being would he be? A cruel being, creating lesser beings and bestowing 'sin' upon them and watching as his 'creations' become more and more twisted. Please discuss your answers below.

What has been proven untrue about it? Nothing in the Bible can be reliably contradicted. And if you think the Bible contradicts science, either you do not know anything about the Bile or you don't know anything about science. Science is about making a logical theory, then trying to disprove your theory with observation. You cannot observe things that happened thousands of years ago, so you can't say science contradicts the Bible. Science has indeed advanced civilizations, but the Bible has given us a framework on things that science cannot explain, like morals and history. You may say that the Bible is just a bunch of baloney, but there is so much archaeological evidence for the Bible being true that it would take an ignorant, closed-minded fool to believe it is completely false. For example, they have found a Sodom and Gomorrah recently. Digging through the layers of the different time eras, they have found a layer of SULFUR. Genesis 13:24 says, "Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens." So obviously, at least SOME of the Bible is true. There were a few wars, granted, caused by Christians, but many Christians condemn them now saying that wars were not in the name of Christianity, but rather corrupt moves to gain more power. Or just Christians defending themselves. But here, let's show some of the mass murderers of history:
Joseph Stalin – atheist
Pol Pot – atheist
Mao Zedong – atheist
Benito Mussolini – atheist
Encourages crime and murder? Obviously you have never even heard of the Ten Commandments. And as for civil rights, we live by strict moral standards because, in the end, they benefit you. The bible may stand still, but that is because it is a rock, a foundation to be built upon. It is SUPPOSED to stand still. Actively contradicting science? You said science ran circles around the Bible. Maybe it does, but that is because science constantly changes. And he did not bestow sin upon anyone. He gave us the right to choose: Him or sin. We chose sin, and thus sin entered the world. Cruel? If he was cruel he would not give us free choice, he would send us all to hell and give us no chance at redemption. Instead, he sends his Son into the world to die for us, to take our punishment. You don't even have to follow Him, it just pleases Him when you do. All you have to do is accept his gift of redemption and grace, and believe in Him.
By the way, I am a big believer in science. I believe the Bible and science goes hand in hand.

Maybe some of you should read this. It sort of settles the disagreement between Science and the Bible. Or God.

[Neutraligon]

Okay, so the existence of God is ultimately unknowable. Do you believe in a God?
If yes, then you're theist.
If no, you're atheist.

If 'maybe' you're just agnostic.

just agnostic does not exist. Again agnosticism is a claim as to whether something is knowable and absolutely known, it does not answer the question of existence. So an agnostic atheist is someone who is not a theist, but believes there is a possibility god exists. A gnostic atheist is someone who is not a theist who absolutely thinks no gods exist.

[Greater Beggnig]

Since we had a locked thread on it I thought I would open it up again. So one of the questions we get asked a lot is do we think god exists. My biggest problem with this question is of course, what does the speaker mean by god. Do they mean the Abrahamic god (which is not the same between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), or gods like those in the Greek mythology (who were simply more powerful versions of humans), or do they simply mean the being that created the universe (a deistic god), or is the god a god that has absolutely no connection and no effect on this universe. Before we can even begin to answer the question, we have to first define our terms. So my first question is, how do you define the terms god and exist.

God, a supernatural being that is immortal and can cause phenomena such as lightning and hurricanes. It does not need to have physical form (though it can). Typically a god attempts to guide humanity and governs a least one aspect of the world which affects humanity.

existence - the fact or state of living or having objective reality:
To me that means that for something to exist it must directly have a tangible effect on our world which can be measured. It must be being in reality regardless of if humans are in reality or not. Thus a god that has no effect on our universe cannot exist since there is no objective way of verify it is there.

Based on those two definitions I lack a belief in god. I see no proof that such a being exists, or for that matter that such a being can exist because a supernatural being is by definition beyond the laws of nature and cannot be explained by science, which is the study of reality, and thus cannot objectively exist within reality

So, what say everyone, what is your definition of god, and do you think said god exists.

That's why I'm a theological non-cognitivist. The term "God" is too varied. If a being was all-knowing and eternal, but not omniscient, would it still classify as a "God" or would it not because it cannot exact its will to the full extent? Would a being that will die in 2 Billion years but has God-like power over reality, but somehow cannot stop its eventual death, and is omniscient count as a "God"? When we use God with a capital G are we referring to an interventionist, omni-benevolent, omniscient, eternal being specifically? Would a deist god that made the universe and decided to leave his garage and make a cup of tea for these 13 Billion years or so (must be a very special cup of tea) count as a "God"?

[Mavorpen]

By all means, share any example you like of already having knowledge before you acquire it.

First quote me saying you can have knowledge before you acquire it.

Of course, we both know you cannot do it

Which is precisely why it's both a straw man and a loaded question.

[Arkolon]

It depends on how close the gun is to my head.

"Agnostic atheist" is what they're calling it, apparently.

So you can't be bothered to pick a position? You could just say the subject of God doesn't concern you and we'd be over this.

My answer is "maybe", but you won't accept this because, for some reason, you're too stubborn to. A longer answer for you is "I don't know-- neither can I know."

[WestRedMaple]

So you're not just wrong, you also don't grasp the concept of quoting.

Hint: when you are putting the words there, you're not quoting me

That's why I said I fixed it. That's an acknowledgement that I was referring to your original post, but felt the need to correct it. If I quoted you then edited it without acknowledging that I did and how, then you would be right.

But you still 'quote' me, though it is not, in fact, a quote. If you aren't quoting someone, then don't indicate that you're quoting them.

[Pandeeria]

Agnostic atheist it is, then.

If that's what it is, then sure. I'm not going to bother with the semantics of it all.

Considering yourself "Just an Agnostic" is a poor semantic itself.

[Neutraligon]

So you can't be bothered to pick a position? You could just say the subject of God doesn't concern you and we'd be over this.

My answer is "maybe", but you won't accept this because, for some reason, you're too stubborn to. A longer answer for you is "I don't know-- neither can I know."

That falls under atheism.

[Geilinor]

So you can't be bothered to pick a position? You could just say the subject of God doesn't concern you and we'd be over this.

My answer is "maybe", but you won't accept this because, for some reason, you're too stubborn to. A longer answer for you is "I don't know-- neither can I know."

We know you're an agnostic. Agnostic/gnostic only covers the knowledge spectrum. Atheist/theist is on the belief spectrum.

[Neutraligon]

What has been proven untrue about it? Nothing in the Bible can be reliably contradicted. And if you think the Bible contradicts science, either you do not know anything about the Bile or you don't know anything about science. Science is about making a logical theory, then trying to disprove your theory with observation. You cannot observe things that happened thousands of years ago, so you can't say science contradicts the Bible. Science has indeed advanced civilizations, but the Bible has given us a framework on things that science cannot explain, like morals and history. You may say that the Bible is just a bunch of baloney, but there is so much archaeological evidence for the Bible being true that it would take an ignorant, closed-minded fool to believe it is completely false. For example, they have found a Sodom and Gomorrah recently. Digging through the layers of the different time eras, they have found a layer of SULFUR. Genesis 13:24 says, "Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens." So obviously, at least SOME of the Bible is true. There were a few wars, granted, caused by Christians, but many Christians condemn them now saying that wars were not in the name of Christianity, but rather corrupt moves to gain more power. Or just Christians defending themselves. But here, let's show some of the mass murderers of history:
Joseph Stalin – atheist
Pol Pot – atheist
Mao Zedong – atheist
Benito Mussolini – atheist
Encourages crime and murder? Obviously you have never even heard of the Ten Commandments. And as for civil rights, we live by strict moral standards because, in the end, they benefit you. The bible may stand still, but that is because it is a rock, a foundation to be built upon. It is SUPPOSED to stand still. Actively contradicting science? You said science ran circles around the Bible. Maybe it does, but that is because science constantly changes. And he did not bestow sin upon anyone. He gave us the right to choose: Him or sin. We chose sin, and thus sin entered the world. Cruel? If he was cruel he would not give us free choice, he would send us all to hell and give us no chance at redemption. Instead, he sends his Son into the world to die for us, to take our punishment. You don't even have to follow Him, it just pleases Him when you do. All you have to do is accept his gift of redemption and grace, and believe in Him.
By the way, I am a big believer in science. I believe the Bible and science goes hand in hand.

Maybe some of you should read this. It sort of settles the disagreement between Science and the Bible. Or God.

Did you miss my response? Also, provide said archeological evidence.

[Mavorpen]

That's why I said I fixed it. That's an acknowledgement that I was referring to your original post, but felt the need to correct it. If I quoted you then edited it without acknowledging that I did and how, then you would be right.

But you still 'quote' me, though it is not, in fact, a quote. If you aren't quoting someone, then don't indicate that you're quoting them.

I didn't indicate that. If I said that I did quote you, then show me where.

[Arkolon]

My answer is "maybe", but you won't accept this because, for some reason, you're too stubborn to. A longer answer for you is "I don't know-- neither can I know."

That falls under atheism.

OK?

But I do not believe that there is no God, either.

[Mavorpen]

That falls under atheism.

OK?

But I do not believe that there is no God, either.

Still atheism.

[The Prophet]

You're all suffering from the CURSE OF GREYFACE!!!!

In the year 1166 B.C., a malcontented hunchbrain by the name of Greyface, got it into his head that the universe was as humorless as he, and he began to teach that play was sinful because it contradicted the ways of Serious Order. "Look at all the order around you," he said. And from that, he deluded honest men to believe that reality was a straightjacket affair and not the happy romance as men had known it.

It is not presently understood why men were so gullible at that particular time, for absolutely no one thought to observe all the disorder around them and conclude just the opposite. But anyway, Greyface and his followers took the game of playing at life more seriously than they took life itself and were known even to destroy other living beings whose ways of life differed from their own.

The unfortunate result of this is that mankind has since been suffering from a psychological and spiritual imbalance. Imbalance causes frustration, and frustration causes fear. And fear makes for a bad trip. Man has been on a bad trip for a long time now.

It is called THE CURSE OF GREYFACE.

[Neutraligon]

That falls under atheism.

OK?

But I do not believe that there is no God, either.

Atheism again covers anything that is not theism. So if you are not a theist, you are an atheist. That is why I answered you the way I did when you were talking about Truth Belief and Knowledge. Atheist is not a belief because it makes no claim, it is also not Truth because it makes no claim, since it is neither Truth nor Belief it is not Knowledge, meaning it exists in the white space. The problem is that white space was called a proposition, but a proposition is a claim, and atheism is not a claim, t is simply not theism.

[Arkolon]

My answer is "maybe", but you won't accept this because, for some reason, you're too stubborn to. A longer answer for you is "I don't know-- neither can I know."

We know you're an agnostic. Agnostic/gnostic only covers the knowledge spectrum. Atheist/theist is on the belief spectrum.

I think you mean axis; the two axes make a two-dimensional spectrum.

Semantics is a bitch, isn't it?

[Archeuland and Baughistan]

Yes, the Judeo-Christian God, as well as the Lord Jesus Christ the Messiah, exist and are very real.

Oh no, and just when the thread was starting to get somewhat fun.

Do cynical remarks like these make up the majority of your 50,000-some posts on this forum?

[Utah and Deseret]

Yeah.
Try and guess what religion I am by the name Utah And Deseret

Mormon!

[Mavorpen]

Oh no, and just when the thread was starting to get somewhat fun.

Do cynical remarks like these make up the majority of your 50,000-some posts on this forum?

I don't know, maybe.

Why don't you go count for me?

[Galloism]

OK?

But I do not believe that there is no God, either.

Atheism again covers anything that is not theism. So if you are not a theist, you are an atheist.

Buddhists = atheists.

[Mavorpen]

Atheism again covers anything that is not theism. So if you are not a theist, you are an atheist.

Buddhists = atheists.

Not all of them. A good bit of them do believe in deities.