NationStates

Fartsniffage wrote:Not so kosher.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58993696

US surgeons say they have successfully given a pig's kidney to a person in a transplant breakthrough they hope could ultimately solve donor organ shortages.

The recipient was brain-dead, meaning they were already on artificial life support with no prospect of recovering.

The kidney came from a pig that had been genetically modified to stop the organ being recognised by the body as "foreign" and being rejected.

The work is not yet peer-reviewed or published but there are plans for this.

Or maybe it is kosher, I dunno. Do you think the threat to life exception to kosher rules would allow for this for a jew?

Neutraligon wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:Not so kosher.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58993696

US surgeons say they have successfully given a pig's kidney to a person in a transplant breakthrough they hope could ultimately solve donor organ shortages.

The recipient was brain-dead, meaning they were already on artificial life support with no prospect of recovering.

The kidney came from a pig that had been genetically modified to stop the organ being recognised by the body as "foreign" and being rejected.

The work is not yet peer-reviewed or published but there are plans for this.

Or maybe it is kosher, I dunno. Do you think the threat to life exception to kosher rules would allow for this for a jew?

I think it would fit with the rule about threat to life, making it kosher.

The New California Republic wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:
I think it would fit with the rule about threat to life, making it kosher.

As I mentioned, that rule seems to only really apply when it's a temporary measure, where the intent is to go back to kosher afterwards. A transplant would entail a permanent state away from that. However if a Rabbi was convinced that there was really no other option, i.e. there was little or no prospect of any human organ forthcoming for them, then they might reluctantly agree that not being kosher for the rest of one's days is better than not being alive. Of course I'm sure there would be some Rabbis out there that would take a much harder line, that dying kosher is better than being alive with such a body part.

Neutraligon wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:As I mentioned, that rule seems to only really apply when it's a temporary measure, where the intent is to go back to kosher afterwards. A transplant would entail a permanent state away from that. However if a Rabbi was convinced that there was really no other option, i.e. there was little or no prospect of any human organ forthcoming for them, then they might reluctantly agree that not being kosher for the rest of one's days is better than not being alive. Of course I'm sure there would be some Rabbis out there that would take a much harder line, that dying kosher is better than being alive with such a body part.

Except that rule also applies to things like if you need to eat for medical reasons during Yom Kippur then eat. So long as your medication requires you to eat, then you do so. And for some people that is permanent.

The New California Republic wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:Except that rule also applies to things like if you need to eat for medical reasons during Yom Kippur then eat. So long as your medication requires you to eat, then you do so. And for some people that is permanent.

Yes but again they do go back to it, it is still a temporary measure. Having an "unclean" organ in one's body long-term and without interruption is a different kettle of fish from breaking the norm for a day during Yom Kippur.

Neutraligon wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:Yes but again they do go back to it, it is still a temporary measure. Having an "unclean" organ in one's body long-term and without interruption is a different kettle of fish from breaking the norm for a day during Yom Kippur.

What do you mean they go back to eat?

The New California Republic wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:What do you mean they go back to eat?

No, by "it" I meant they go back to being kosher after Yom Kippur, i.e. back to adherence to the rules. It is a temporary relaxing of the rule during a day every so often. Having an "unclean" organ would be a permanent state of affairs rather than a temporary relaxation of the rules.

Neutraligon wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:No, by "it" I meant they go back to being kosher after Yom Kippur, i.e. back to adherence to the rules. It is a temporary relaxing of the rule during a day every so often. Having an "unclean" organ would be a permanent state of affairs rather than a temporary relaxation of the rules.

Except that it is not a temporary state of affairs. The rule may only exist for Yom Kippur, but the person will permanently be breaking it.

Neutraligon wrote:If the only way you can survive is by eating pig meat, then it does not matter how long that is, it could be for your entire life. You eat the pig meat.

The New California Republic wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:Except that it is not a temporary state of affairs. The rule may only exist for Yom Kippur, but the person will permanently be breaking it.

It is temporary in the sense that it only happens once every so often in a cyclical manner. By permanency in this respect I mean constantly 24/7, for the rest of one's life, without interruption.

Neutraligon wrote:If the only way you can survive is by eating pig meat, then it does not matter how long that is, it could be for your entire life. You eat the pig meat.

There's never been a test of what a Rabbi would say to that, to my knowledge.

Neutraligon wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:It is temporary in the sense that it only happens once every so often in a cyclical manner. By permanency in this respect I mean constantly 24/7, for the rest of one's life, without interruption.


There's never been a test of what a Rabbi would say to that, to my knowledge.

The law is from the following verse Leviticus 18:5, states simply: "You shall keep My statutes and My laws, which a person shall do and shall live by them. I am the LORD.
If a person is unable to live by following the law then they do not need to follow it.

The New California Republic wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:
The law is from the following verse Leviticus 18:5, states simply: "You shall keep My statutes and My laws, which a person shall do and shall live by them. I am the LORD.
If a person is unable to live by following the law then they do not need to follow it.

I mean...depending on how you interpret that then some might say if you can't live by the law then not living is better. Of course it's an extreme position, but some might say such a thing. I think such an interpretation would be wrong however and I am in no way endorsing it.

Neutraligon wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:I mean...depending on how you interpret that then some might say if you can't live by the law then not living is better. Of course it's an extreme position, but some might say such a thing. I think such an interpretation would be wrong however and I am in no way endorsing it.

The talmud explicitly rejects that interpretation

The New California Republic wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:The talmud explicitly rejects that interpretation

Do you have a quote? Just curious about what it says specifically regarding it.

Rabbi Shimon ben Menasya said: It is stated: “And the children of Israel shall keep Shabbat, to observe Shabbat” (Exodus 31:16). The Torah said: Desecrate one Shabbat on his behalf so he will observe many Shabbatot. Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said: If I would have been there among those Sages who debated this question, I would have said that my proof is preferable to theirs, as it states: “You shall keep My statutes and My ordinances, which a person shall do and live by them” (Leviticus 18:5), and not that he should die by them. In all circumstances, one must take care not to die as a result of fulfilling the mitzvot.

Neutraligon wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:Do you have a quote? Just curious about what it says specifically regarding it.

Kinda a big long thing but check out Yoma 85a and b

Rabbi Shimon ben Menasya said: It is stated: “And the children of Israel shall keep Shabbat, to observe Shabbat” (Exodus 31:16). The Torah said: Desecrate one Shabbat on his behalf so he will observe many Shabbatot. Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said: If I would have been there among those Sages who debated this question, I would have said that my proof is preferable to theirs, as it states: “You shall keep My statutes and My ordinances, which a person shall do and live by them” (Leviticus 18:5), and not that he should die by them. In all circumstances, one must take care not to die as a result of fulfilling the mitzvot.

Sundiata wrote:What is the most common understanding in Judaism of what God referred to himself as when Moses asked God for his name?

Rashi wrote:“Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)”: “I will be” with them in this predicament “what I will be” with them in their subjugation by other kingdoms.

Menassa wrote:Kosher vs non Kosher applies to food consumption. It does not apply to using parts of a non-kosher animal. A Jew is allowed to sell pigs, a Jew is not allowed to eat pigs.

Apparently, even if they are impossible pigs.

Ethel mermania wrote:

Menassa wrote:Kosher vs non Kosher applies to food consumption. It does not apply to using parts of a non-kosher animal. A Jew is allowed to sell pigs, a Jew is not allowed to eat pigs.

Apparently, even if they are impossible pigs.

Chappy chanukah.

Menassa wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:Chappy chanukah.

Chappy chanukah to you as well my friend. I hope your family is safe and sound as the pandemic (hopefully) winds to a close.

Menassa wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:Chappy chanukah.

Chappy chanukah to you as well my friend. I hope your family is safe and sound as the pandemic (hopefully) winds to a close.

Ethel mermania wrote:

Menassa wrote:Chappy chanukah to you as well my friend. I hope your family is safe and sound as the pandemic (hopefully) winds to a close.

Same to you, it is always nice to see you pop in to say shalom

Yaak wrote:

Menassa wrote:Chappy chanukah to you as well my friend. I hope your family is safe and sound as the pandemic (hopefully) winds to a close.

Happy Hanukah!

Fahran wrote:Happy Hanukkah, everyone! I hope everyone has been safe and sound of late.

I'll hopefully get to take some time away from my studies and visit my family to observe the holiday. I must confess it lightens my heart.

Menassa wrote:

Fahran wrote:Happy Hanukkah, everyone! I hope everyone has been safe and sound of late.

I'll hopefully get to take some time away from my studies and visit my family to observe the holiday. I must confess it lightens my heart.

Chag Sameach!